Astronauts and Cosmonauts as musicians

[brihath]

A recent photo of the current ISS crew shows a fairly large keyboard instrument in the lower left of the picture.  The music on the keyboard looks fairly challenging, which caused me to ask the question:

How many Astronauts or Cosmonauts are musically trained, and are any of them at the professional level in this skill?

I have seen several photos over the years of Astronauts and Cosmonauts on the the shuttle, in ISS and in MIR with instruments.  Ron McNair playing a saxophone on an early Shuttle mission (41-B, I think) is one notable example.  There is also the Astronaut band "Max-Q", which has been around for many years.

I always thought that listening to some great Bach while floating and watching the world go by would be the experience of a lifetime.

Just thought I would post the question for some thoughts on the topic.

[paulhbell07]

I remember Ron McNair as well. It was sad watching Jean Michel Jarre's Rendez-Vous Houston concert, without Ron. I have that concert on DVD and cd, Ron's piece is still one one my favorite pieces of Jean Michel Jarre's music.

[Dana]

Neil Armstrong was known to play ragtime tunes on the piano during his X-15 days. Milt Thompson used to have a story about how the X-15 folks were at some desert bar celebrating a successful X-15 flight, and Neil was playing a tune on the piano. Being a civilian, he was casually dressed, not wearing any sort of uniform.

Then some of the rocket-engine engineers from across the lakebed came in to celebrate their own successful rocket-engine test. One of them knocked back a couple of beers, and walked over to Neil and asked him if he took requests.

To which Neil responded, never missing a note, "I'm afraid I don't know any *missileer* songs...."

[kimmern123]

I know Clay Anderson is a musician. His NASA-bio page states he likes to write music and play the piano/organ and doing vocal performances. I guess the Expedition 15 crew have heard him play a few tunes since his arrival.

[brihath]

Dana - 28/9/2007  3:53 AM

Neil Armstrong was known to play ragtime tunes on the piano during his X-15 days. Milt Thompson used to have a story about how the X-15 folks were at some desert bar celebrating a successful X-15 flight, and Neil was playing a tune on the piano. Being a civilian, he was casually dressed, not wearing any sort of uniform.

Then some of the rocket-engine engineers from across the lakebed came in to celebrate their own successful rocket-engine test. One of them knocked back a couple of beers, and walked over to Neil and asked him if he took requests.

To which Neil responded, never missing a note, "I'm afraid I don't know any *missileer* songs...."

Probably at Pancho's Bar and Happy Bottom Riding Club, as noted in The Right Stuff and Chuck Yeager's autobiography?

[brihath]

kimmern123 - 28/9/2007  4:32 AM

I know Clay Anderson is a musician. His NASA-bio page states he likes to write music and play the piano/organ and doing vocal performances. I guess the Expedition 15 crew have heard him play a few tunes since his arrival.

That would explain the photo, as the keyboard is in the foreground and Clay is in the photo.  The music on the keyboard looked challenging- 16th note arpeggios.

[SpaceNutz SA]

Dana - 28/9/2007 9:53 AM Neil Armstrong was known to play ragtime tunes on the piano during his X-15 days. Milt Thompson used to have a story about how the X-15 folks were at some desert bar celebrating a successful X-15 flight, and Neil was playing a tune on the piano. Being a civilian, he was casually dressed, not wearing any sort of uniform. Then some of the rocket-engine engineers from across the lakebed came in to celebrate their own successful rocket-engine test. One of them knocked back a couple of beers, and walked over to Neil and asked him if he took requests. To which Neil responded, never missing a note, "I'm afraid I don't know any *missileer* songs...."

I think he was in a band as a youngster.

[oscar71]

Judy Resnik was a classical pianist who toyed with the idea of studying Music before switching to Math and eventually Electrical Engineering.  Susan Helms was in a band which released a CD, I think that one of their tunes was used as wake up music during STS-64.

I took an introductory Psychology class during which the professor told us about the 3 M's: music, math and medicine.  It seems that if you're good at one of the 3 M's, you're also good at the other 2.

[brihath]

oscar71 - 28/9/2007  5:15 PM

Judy Resnik was a classical pianist who toyed with the idea of studying Music before switching to Math and eventually Electrical Engineering.  Susan Helms was in a band which released a CD, I think that one of their tunes was used as wake up music during STS-64.

I took an introductory Psychology class during which the professor told us about the 3 M's: music, math and medicine.  It seems that if you're good at one of the 3 M's, you're also good at the other 2.

Right...music is all about time signatures, tempo, and intervals...all math related concepts.  That was one of the reasons I started this thread, as Astronauts are mostly scientists, doctors and engineers, so there would be an alignment in skill sets.

[Dana]

brihath - 28/9/2007  7:32 AM

Dana - 28/9/2007  3:53 AM

Neil Armstrong was known to play ragtime tunes on the piano during his X-15 days. Milt Thompson used to have a story about how the X-15 folks were at some desert bar celebrating a successful X-15 flight, and Neil was playing a tune on the piano. Being a civilian, he was casually dressed, not wearing any sort of uniform.

Then some of the rocket-engine engineers from across the lakebed came in to celebrate their own successful rocket-engine test. One of them knocked back a couple of beers, and walked over to Neil and asked him if he took requests.

To which Neil responded, never missing a note, "I'm afraid I don't know any *missileer* songs...."

Probably at Pancho's Bar and Happy Bottom Riding Club, as noted in The Right Stuff and Chuck Yeager's autobiography?

It was another bar. Pancho's was gone (burned down) about 2 years before Neil arrived at what was then known as the NACA High-Speed Flight Station. IIRC Neil arrived at Edwards in 1955 and Pancho's burned down in 1953.

Side note: My aunt grew up in Juniper Hills during that time. Her dad had a Happy Bottom Riding Club "membership" card and knew Pancho and many of the test pilots. My aunt learned to swim at the local Y, and she still has the certificate signed by her swimming instructor, "Mrs. J. Armstrong"-Jan Armstrong, Neil's wife.

[Dana]

brihath - 28/9/2007  3:26 PM

oscar71 - 28/9/2007  5:15 PM

Judy Resnik was a classical pianist who toyed with the idea of studying Music before switching to Math and eventually Electrical Engineering.  Susan Helms was in a band which released a CD, I think that one of their tunes was used as wake up music during STS-64.

I took an introductory Psychology class during which the professor told us about the 3 M's: music, math and medicine.  It seems that if you're good at one of the 3 M's, you're also good at the other 2.

Right...music is all about time signatures, tempo, and intervals...all math related concepts.  That was one of the reasons I started this thread, as Astronauts are mostly scientists, doctors and engineers, so there would be an alignment in skill sets.

You know, I have been a musician for almost all my life....I am 36 now, started playing piano at 9 and guitar ever since I was 13 and got my first Les Paul for my birthday....I have a good ear for music and what one of my music teachers called an "extremely advanced sense of rhythm and fine grasp of theory." YET I have never understood how people can compare music to math or vise versa. One is a scientific process and the other is a natural process. My math grades were always horrible, yet music feels entirely natural and intuitive to me. You can learn math, but you either feel and understand music or you don't-I have never understood how anyone could say the two were related.

[brihath]

Dana - 29/9/2007  4:30 AM

brihath - 28/9/2007  3:26 PM

oscar71 - 28/9/2007  5:15 PM

Judy Resnik was a classical pianist who toyed with the idea of studying Music before switching to Math and eventually Electrical Engineering.  Susan Helms was in a band which released a CD, I think that one of their tunes was used as wake up music during STS-64.

I took an introductory Psychology class during which the professor told us about the 3 M's: music, math and medicine.  It seems that if you're good at one of the 3 M's, you're also good at the other 2.

Right...music is all about time signatures, tempo, and intervals...all math related concepts.  That was one of the reasons I started this thread, as Astronauts are mostly scientists, doctors and engineers, so there would be an alignment in skill sets.

You know, I have been a musician for almost all my life....I am 36 now, started playing piano at 9 and guitar ever since I was 13 and got my first Les Paul for my birthday....I have a good ear for music and what one of my music teachers called an "extremely advanced sense of rhythm and fine grasp of theory." YET I have never understood how people can compare music to math or vise versa. One is a scientific process and the other is a natural process. My math grades were always horrible, yet music feels entirely natural and intuitive to me. You can learn math, but you either feel and understand music or you don't-I have never understood how anyone could say the two were related.

I can understand how you can relate to music in that manner.  I have three children who all play musical instruments quite well.  My oldest daughter was Principal Cellist for Florida All State Orchestra when she was in high school, and is now a private music teacher for strings and piano, and her math skills were not all that great either.  

My son is a different story.  He plays Oboe, English Horn, Saxophone, Guitar, Baritone, and Euphonium, and Bass Guitar.  He was an excellent math student and recently graduated with a Chem Eng degree.

I don't play instruments, but I have sung in Choirs for almost 20 years.  I can see that playing or singing in an ensemble is all about understanding intervals, timing and tempo.  If you don't grasp that, you won't tune properly with your section or harmonize with the other sections.  I currently sing with the Master Chorale of Tampa Bay, and the rehearsals are intense, focused, and require a strong sense of discipline, along with a solid understanding of music theory, which is largely math based.

Certainly, to achieve greatness in musical performance, you have to have a certain intuitive feel for the music, but you also need to understand how to interpret what the composer intended or the director wants, and that goes back to the math part.

The consensus among music educators is that students of music who succeed at it are also, as a rule, better than average students.  Certainly, while there are situations that deviate from the norm as you and I have both seen, the body of knowledge suggests a common thread.

[oscar71]

Dana - 29/9/2007  3:30 AM

brihath - 28/9/2007  3:26 PM

oscar71 - 28/9/2007  5:15 PM

Judy Resnik was a classical pianist who toyed with the idea of studying Music before switching to Math and eventually Electrical Engineering.  Susan Helms was in a band which released a CD, I think that one of their tunes was used as wake up music during STS-64.

I took an introductory Psychology class during which the professor told us about the 3 M's: music, math and medicine.  It seems that if you're good at one of the 3 M's, you're also good at the other 2.

Right...music is all about time signatures, tempo, and intervals...all math related concepts.  That was one of the reasons I started this thread, as Astronauts are mostly scientists, doctors and engineers, so there would be an alignment in skill sets.

You know, I have been a musician for almost all my life....I am 36 now, started playing piano at 9 and guitar ever since I was 13 and got my first Les Paul for my birthday....I have a good ear for music and what one of my music teachers called an "extremely advanced sense of rhythm and fine grasp of theory." YET I have never understood how people can compare music to math or vise versa. One is a scientific process and the other is a natural process. My math grades were always horrible, yet music feels entirely natural and intuitive to me. You can learn math, but you either feel and understand music or you don't-I have never understood how anyone could say the two were related.

The connection between math and music has to do that the same regions of the brain are used in order to pursue both endeavors.  There is actually a school of music where composers will use a mathematical scale to compose symphonies and even operas.  The music, what I've heard at any rate, is incredibly bad, lol.  I have an affinity for the Romantic musical epoch, so my ears tend to only appreciate music of a melodic nature.  Beyond that, I have known several doctors who are excellent musicians in their own right.

[SpaceCat]

brihath - 26/9/2007  11:23 AM
How many Astronauts or Cosmonauts are musically trained, and are any of them at the professional level in this skill?

Winston Scott certainly is-- he went to Florida State on a music scholarship, and earned a BA in music from there before entering Naval Aviation OCS.


On the hobby end- no discussion of astros and music would be complete without mention of Scott Carpenter's legendary ukelele, mandolin and guitar strumming during Mercury times, and his time with the Navy Sealab program.

[brihath]

SpaceCat - 30/9/2007  11:39 PM

brihath - 26/9/2007  11:23 AM
How many Astronauts or Cosmonauts are musically trained, and are any of them at the professional level in this skill?

Winston Scott certainly is-- he went to Florida State on a music scholarship, and earned a BA in music from there before entering Naval Aviation OCS.


On the hobby end- no discussion of astros and music would be complete without mention of Scott Carpenter's legendary ukelele, mandolin and guitar strumming during Mercury times, and his time with the Navy Sealab program.

Right...I remember that Winston Scott had a music degree from FSU.  Excellent music school, BTW.  Any idea what his area of focus was?  Music education or performance?

[blue_eyes]

brihath - 1/10/2007  7:47 AM

Right...I remember that Winston Scott had a music degree from FSU.  Excellent music school, BTW.  Any idea what his area of focus was?  Music education or performance?

I'm not entirely sure, but I'm guessing performance... he excelled at playing trumpet for years before he even got to FSU.  Have you read his FABULOUS book "Reflections from Earth Orbit"?  It is absolutely wonderful!  In it he talks quite a bit about his jazz and trumpet playing, and he devotes an entire chapter in tribute to his high school band director Mr. William LeDue.  Apparently, Mr. Ledue ended up being one of the key figures in his life who paved the way for him to become an astronaut!  It is quite a moving story.  Anyway, in spite of Winston Scott's own words being extremely humble, I got the feeling that he must have been one of the top trumpet players at both his high school and also at FSU during the years he attended.  What an inspiration he was and is!

[brihath]

blue_eyes - 1/10/2007  6:54 PM

brihath - 1/10/2007  7:47 AM

Right...I remember that Winston Scott had a music degree from FSU.  Excellent music school, BTW.  Any idea what his area of focus was?  Music education or performance?

I'm not entirely sure, but I'm guessing performance... he excelled at playing trumpet for years before he even got to FSU.  Have you read his FABULOUS book "Reflections from Earth Orbit"?  It is absolutely wonderful!  In it he talks quite a bit about his jazz and trumpet playing, and he devotes an entire chapter in tribute to his high school band director Mr. William LeDue.  Apparently, Mr. Ledue ended up being one of the key figures in his life who paved the way for him to become an astronaut!  It is quite a moving story.  Anyway, in spite of Winston Scott's own words being extremely humble, I got the feeling that he must have been one of the top trumpet players at both his high school and also at FSU during the years he attended.  What an inspiration he was and is!

Thanks for the book info.  I've read several astronaut memoirs, most recently Mike Mullane's "Riding Rockets", but this one will definitely go on my reading list.

[blue_eyes]

brihath - 2/10/2007  7:20 AM

blue_eyes - 1/10/2007  6:54 PM

brihath - 1/10/2007  7:47 AM

Right...I remember that Winston Scott had a music degree from FSU.  Excellent music school, BTW.  Any idea what his area of focus was?  Music education or performance?

I'm not entirely sure, but I'm guessing performance... he excelled at playing trumpet for years before he even got to FSU.  Have you read his FABULOUS book "Reflections from Earth Orbit"?  It is absolutely wonderful!  In it he talks quite a bit about his jazz and trumpet playing, and he devotes an entire chapter in tribute to his high school band director Mr. William LeDue.  Apparently, Mr. Ledue ended up being one of the key figures in his life who paved the way for him to become an astronaut!  It is quite a moving story.  Anyway, in spite of Winston Scott's own words being extremely humble, I got the feeling that he must have been one of the top trumpet players at both his high school and also at FSU during the years he attended.  What an inspiration he was and is!

Thanks for the book info.  I've read several astronaut memoirs, most recently Mike Mullane's "Riding Rockets", but this one will definitely go on my reading list.

And thank you!  I think you'll probably enjoy Winston Scott's book very much.

By the way, (and I'm sorry to deviate slightly off topic here, but it's just too cool to not mention!), there is an absolutely awesome music story within former flight director Gene Kranz's book "Failure is Not an Option."  If you haven't read his book carefully, it's truly outstanding.  The "music story" in it that I'm referring to was a total surprise to me when I read the book the first time, it was the last thing I ever expected to stumble across.  But smack-dab buried in the middle of his memoir, only occupying the space of one or maybe two pages, is Mr. Kranz's account of one of the most powerful experiences of his life, an experience that was completely shaped by music.  And he makes it very clear with his words that this music changed the direction of his entire life.  Wow!  Moves me now just thinking about it.  If you haven't read it, it's definitely worth it.

Anyway, sorry to you brihath and to everyone else for straying a little on this thread.  I'm in music professionally, so when I hear about anyone who is deeply affected by spaceflight AND music, I get very excited.  Music and instruments and astronauts---it's a great topic, thanks for starting it!

[JMS]

Don't forget "Stevie Ray" Robinson and the other members of the astronaut band, "Max Q".
http://tinyurl.com/2ooqo2

[brihath]

blue_eyes - 2/10/2007  8:09 PM

brihath - 2/10/2007  7:20 AM

blue_eyes - 1/10/2007  6:54 PM

brihath - 1/10/2007  7:47 AM

Right...I remember that Winston Scott had a music degree from FSU.  Excellent music school, BTW.  Any idea what his area of focus was?  Music education or performance?

I'm not entirely sure, but I'm guessing performance... he excelled at playing trumpet for years before he even got to FSU.  Have you read his FABULOUS book "Reflections from Earth Orbit"?  It is absolutely wonderful!  In it he talks quite a bit about his jazz and trumpet playing, and he devotes an entire chapter in tribute to his high school band director Mr. William LeDue.  Apparently, Mr. Ledue ended up being one of the key figures in his life who paved the way for him to become an astronaut!  It is quite a moving story.  Anyway, in spite of Winston Scott's own words being extremely humble, I got the feeling that he must have been one of the top trumpet players at both his high school and also at FSU during the years he attended.  What an inspiration he was and is!

Thanks for the book info.  I've read several astronaut memoirs, most recently Mike Mullane's "Riding Rockets", but this one will definitely go on my reading list.

And thank you!  I think you'll probably enjoy Winston Scott's book very much.

By the way, (and I'm sorry to deviate slightly off topic here, but it's just too cool to not mention!), there is an absolutely awesome music story within former flight director Gene Kranz's book "Failure is Not an Option."  If you haven't read his book carefully, it's truly outstanding.  The "music story" in it that I'm referring to was a total surprise to me when I read the book the first time, it was the last thing I ever expected to stumble across.  But smack-dab buried in the middle of his memoir, only occupying the space of one or maybe two pages, is Mr. Kranz's account of one of the most powerful experiences of his life, an experience that was completely shaped by music.  And he makes it very clear with his words that this music changed the direction of his entire life.  Wow!  Moves me now just thinking about it.  If you haven't read it, it's definitely worth it.

Anyway, sorry to you brihath and to everyone else for straying a little on this thread.  I'm in music professionally, so when I hear about anyone who is deeply affected by spaceflight AND music, I get very excited.  Music and instruments and astronauts---it's a great topic, thanks for starting it!

I'm not a professional musician, just a dedicated amateur.  Spaceflight and music got me hooked way back when I first saw 2001: A Space Odyssey (in Cinerama, no less!).  Hearing Strauss' "Blue Danube Waltz" and seeing the Pan Am Shuttle chasing the space station...one of the most memorable of a lifetime of great music experiences.  Again, a little OT, but I tend to wax philosophical when I talk about music.