Author Topic: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon  (Read 1152681 times)

Offline Jorge

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4460 on: 09/27/2009 07:51 pm »


NASA (notice all caps) doesn't sell hardware.
Just ask Bigelow.
NASA sold Bigelow intellectual property, not hardware.
I'm sure they didn't get so much as a bolt.

I'm sure too. They got technology licenses and CS man-hours.
JRF

Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4461 on: 09/27/2009 08:50 pm »
So NASA retains the IP for its own use? Wasn't there also a Congressional prohibition to continue work on inflatables? If that were rescinded, would NASA be free to resume working on inflatables?
We will be vic-toooooo-ri-ous!!!

Offline Jorge

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4462 on: 09/27/2009 09:16 pm »
So NASA retains the IP for its own use? Wasn't there also a Congressional prohibition to continue work on inflatables?

Yes, the NASA Authorization Act of 2000. H.R. 1654, section 127.

Quote
If that were rescinded, would NASA be free to resume working on inflatables?

Yes.
JRF

Offline sdsds

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4463 on: 09/27/2009 09:19 pm »

Dunno,

If they can,
1. Start all nine engines on the pad
2. Leave the pad
3. Go through maxQ
4. Stage
5. Air start the second stage merlin
6. Restart the second stage merlin

In my book they would have retired most of the risks and that would be an unqualified success. Orbit is gravy. Those are the items that they need to get data on. Everything else can be tweaked later. This is billed as a "Test" flight.

Yes, retiring risk should be what this flight is all about.  In that vein:  imagine if this Dragon could be used as a passive rendezvous target to demonstrate proximity operations for a later Dragon flight.  If they put the right hardware on this capsule now for Dragoneye to "see" later, could they even demonstrate a docking prior to an ISS approach?  Wouldn't that reduce some risk? 
-- sdsds --

Offline mmeijeri

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4464 on: 09/27/2009 09:22 pm »
Quote
If that were rescinded, would NASA be free to resume working on inflatables?

Yes.

Of course there is also the general prohibition to do things in-house that can be procured commercially. Nothing that cannot be fixed by bogus requirements and a few thumbs on the scale of course.
We will be vic-toooooo-ri-ous!!!

Offline jabe

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4465 on: 09/27/2009 09:34 pm »
.  If they put the right hardware on this capsule now for Dragoneye to "see" later, could they even demonstrate a docking prior to an ISS approach?  Wouldn't that reduce some risk? 
I believe that the best they could do is station keep.  The Dragon at present doesn't have capability to hard dock on its own
jb

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4466 on: 09/27/2009 09:38 pm »
If they put the right hardware on this capsule now for Dragoneye to "see" later, could they even demonstrate a docking prior to an ISS approach?  Wouldn't that reduce some risk? 

Current design Dragon requires a Canada Arm to dock.  They are not nearly ready for a docking target.  SpaceX's only job is to put Dragon within a box and stay there. 

Remember what this launch is.  They needed something to launch that didn't require a fairing (they have in the past acknowledged fairing issues, obviously they are not retired yet).  They are basically going to launch hardware that was never intended to see spaceflight into orbit as a super boiler plate. No one as yet knows how complete this qualification capsule is, but if it's the one we have seen every Tom Dick and Harry climbing into it's basically an aluminum shell, with a trunk that's not much more advanced than the interstage.

Given they basically have a month before their Sudodragon needs to be shipped to the Cape, it's not going than a shell with sensors all over it.
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4467 on: 09/27/2009 09:39 pm »
Quote
If that were rescinded, would NASA be free to resume working on inflatables?

Yes.

Of course there is also the general prohibition to do things in-house that can be procured commercially.

That prohibition is not so general. Read the relevant law, in particular the Commercial Space Act of 1998 (which largely superceded the previous Launch Services Purchase Act of 1990).
JRF

Offline Chandonn

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4468 on: 09/27/2009 09:59 pm »
Given they basically have a month before their Sudodragon needs to be shipped to the Cape, it's not going than a shell with sensors all over it.

I believe that would make this a "pseudo-Dragon".  Although, this is more than just a fake dragon.  This is a test article of some fashion.  Better call it either a test article or a prototype.
« Last Edit: 09/27/2009 09:59 pm by Chandonn »

Offline Jim

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4469 on: 09/27/2009 10:57 pm »

Given they basically have a month before their Sudodragon needs to be shipped to the Cape,

Based on what?  You have nothing to back that up.

Offline R.Simko

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4470 on: 09/27/2009 11:24 pm »
So NASA retains the IP for its own use? Wasn't there also a Congressional prohibition to continue work on inflatables? If that were rescinded, would NASA be free to resume working on inflatables?

Why would congress put a prohibition on NASA to work on inflatables?

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4471 on: 09/27/2009 11:24 pm »

Given they basically have a month before their Sudodragon needs to be shipped to the Cape,

Based on what?  You have nothing to back that up.

SpaceX is shooting for a November 29 launch date.  Seems reasonable they will need a month for integration, wet tests, test fire, and pre launch at least.  That would mean all components there at the end of October, a month from now.

But of course, you are right, it's only an extrapolation of what has been said.  I have nothing to back it up.
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline Jorge

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4472 on: 09/27/2009 11:48 pm »
So NASA retains the IP for its own use? Wasn't there also a Congressional prohibition to continue work on inflatables? If that were rescinded, would NASA be free to resume working on inflatables?

Why would congress put a prohibition on NASA to work on inflatables?

1) They believed it to be a "trojan horse" for a manned Mars program that they had not authorized. (This was not just paranoia: TransHab stood for "transit habitat", a hab module intended for use during trans-Mars and trans-Earth coast.)

2) ISS was already behind schedule and over budget and turning the hab module into a science project was going to make it worse.
JRF

Offline R.Simko

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4473 on: 09/27/2009 11:59 pm »
Thanks for the info Jorge.

Offline duane

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4474 on: 09/28/2009 12:36 am »
A few more questions to those who know more about this stuff than I do.

Does anyone know if this psudo-Dragon/Qualification Dragon was ever initially intended to go up, or was the first F9 flight supposed to be a "Big Fairing" flight with some US Gov payload


Is this the "full flight fidelity" item that they talked about and posted pics for ?

In the Spacex photo of the qualification vehicle, there are a bunch of wires running in the bay where the test thruster housings are. Are these possibly wire runs for sensors in and around the thruster bay?

Anyone know how far along the first real Dragon is ?

Thanks
Duane


Offline Jim

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4475 on: 09/28/2009 12:44 am »
  Seems reasonable they will need a month for integration, wet tests, test fire, and pre launch at least.  That would mean all components there at the end of October, a month from now.

All that can be done without a payload

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4476 on: 09/28/2009 12:54 am »
  Seems reasonable they will need a month for integration, wet tests, test fire, and pre launch at least.  That would mean all components there at the end of October, a month from now.
All that can be done without a payload

Thanks for the heads up!  Didn't know that.

So that would mean all they REALLY need on site and fully functional is the 1st stage by the end of October to make the November 29 launch.

That makes me much more bullish over the possibility of a December launch. :)
« Last Edit: 09/28/2009 12:57 am by SpacexULA »
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Offline Jim

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4477 on: 09/28/2009 01:00 am »

So that would mean all they REALLY need on site and fully functional is the 1st stage by the end of October to make the November 29 launch.


Need a second stage since the avionics are in it

Offline SpacexULA

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Re: Elon Musk Q&A - Updates SpaceX status on Falcon and Dragon
« Reply #4478 on: 09/28/2009 02:02 am »

So that would mean all they REALLY need on site and fully functional is the 1st stage by the end of October to make the November 29 launch.


Need a second stage since the avionics are in it

Yea, I guess you need the computers to tell the 1st stage what to do during your wet test, and test fire don't you! 

BTW we are now up to 301 pages on this thread.  It's getting about time to lock this one and make a new one isn't it?
No Bucks no Buck Rogers, but at least Flexible path gets you Twiki.

Online Chris Bergin

Move to the next general status update thread for SpaceX:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=18936.0
« Last Edit: 09/28/2009 02:37 am by Chris Bergin »

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