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#40
by
Jirka Dlouhy
on 30 Mar, 2008 12:07
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CentEur - 5/9/2007 9:15 AM
Spiff - 4/9/2007 11:43 AM
The EU (Yes I know, that is not ESA) has become almost twice as big in the past 4 years with a lot of eastern european countries joining. Are they (planning to be) members of ESA as well? If so, how much will that increase ESA budget and what opportunities will that bring?
We (Czech Rep. Hungary, Poland and Romania) are on the road to full membership, currently engaged through 5-year PECS (Plan for European Cooperating State). I wouldn't expect noticeable changes even with full membership. We're simply too poor today. Also the level of interest in space is very low (in Poland). Hope it gets better once EuroSoyuz starts flying. 
Czech Republic according to declaration of our government will be a member of ESA in second half of 2008. When it will succeed, that it will a good message for czech aerospatial industry a research.
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#41
by
CentEur
on 31 Mar, 2008 07:08
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Jirka Dlouhy - 30/3/2008 2:07 PM
Czech Republic according to declaration of our government will be a member of ESA in second half of 2008. When it will succeed, that it will a good message for czech aerospatial industry a research.
What was your last PECS budget? Poland starts with the smallest possible € 1.1 million.
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#42
by
meiza
on 17 Apr, 2008 21:10
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As most people know, the ESA ministerial council meeting is coming up and includes some big decisions.
There's Ariane updates. The future launcher programme. Crew vehicle decisions. Huge multi-billion science missions. A million things. It also seems all the info is kept very secret.
I find it worrying - first there is no info, then everything is presented in a meeting and an immediate decision should follow. This leaves very little involvement for the public or organizations.
It's a bit like with the ESAS: A quick study that is then made the unquestionable law.
I understand you can't mull things indefinitely and sometimes just have to settle on *something*, but this is not the way a publicly funded agency should work in my opinion. I may be incorrect about the decision process, but it seems like that to me. We get very little information on European space projects beforehand.
I wish a more open way of doing things would be embraced.
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#43
by
Felix
on 18 Apr, 2008 16:15
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As far as i understand ESA is still working on the proposals and wont release them until they are finished.
Maybe less publicity is the way to go in Europe. Less publicity means less people complaining about the cost of space flight.
I dont think we'll see a European ESAS dilemma. There is no schedule pressure for a new launcher (aka "the gap"). There aren't many different configurations. We have only one launcher: Ariane 5 (compared to Shuttle, Altas V, Delta IV). Assuming that ArianeSpace / ESA would like to keep Ariane 5 running like they did with Ariane 4 we would need a new launch complex. To conclude we wouldnt face many of those problems the US is facing right now (except for the budget of course).
ESA ministerial council meeting:
I guess they keep the Vinici dev going for a couple of reason (prevent job loss at Snecma, could be prototype for a bigger (main stage) engine)
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#44
by
meiza
on 18 Apr, 2008 23:00
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Umm, but if the stuff is not decided in the next ministerial council in the fall, when then? It will be indefinitely delayed like great many things anyway...
Less publicity should not be the way to go in any democracy. They are using public funds. The information is not harmful. Let's have a movement. Wake up the sheep!
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#45
by
mr.columbus
on 19 Apr, 2008 07:27
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meiza - 18/4/2008 7:00 PM
Less publicity should not be the way to go in any democracy. They are using public funds. The information is not harmful. Let's have a movement. Wake up the sheep!
I am all for more publicity at ESA, but the truth be told, it is not just convenience on part of them not to give out much information before deciding things. It is, oddly enough, also a question of funds available for publicity and coordination to receive information from the various projects to actually make public.
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#46
by
CentEur
on 19 Apr, 2008 17:53
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Looking at ESA's openness I can see different levels for different actions.
1. Decision making process is almost completely obscure.
2. Development progress is clearly described.
3. Operational phase data is trickling at best.
Due to the nature of ESA's decision making process - the negotiations between 17 ministers - I'm not surprised to get little information beforehand, and I don't think it's going to change anytime soon (if ever). On the other hand the proposals are (as Felix pointed) limited and rarely there are more options than simple go / no-go. And when there are (ATV evolution vs cooperation with Russians vs nothing) they have strong political strings attached.
Development process openness is much better. For example every ESA Bulletin contains ESA Programmes in Progress document where recent actions concerning the projects in development are described.
Operational phase data is limited to the point of disappointment. The first website to serve Huygens descent photos was some US university. Mars Express made photos are greatly outnumbered by those from any US orbiter. You could wait several weeks to get another Moon photo from SMART-1 and so on. If we are to call for openness, here is where ESA needs biggest improvement.
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#47
by
catfry
on 20 Apr, 2008 06:52
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From the ESA site:
The ESA Council
ESA’s governing body is the Council. This is composed of high-level representatives of ESA Member States and is responsible for drawing up the European Space Plan and ensuring the long-term funding of the Agency’s activities. Each ESA Member State has one vote and is represented by a Council delegate from the ministry responsible for space activities in each Member State.
In general, Council meetings are held every three months at delegate level and every two to three years at ministerial level. Meetings at delegate level usually take place at ESA’s headquarters.
Council is responsible for:
drawing up the European Space Plan
ensuring that it is being followed
approving both ongoing and future Programmes
deciding on the level of resources to be made available to ESA
ESA’s activities are divided into nine Directorates, each headed by a Director who reports directly to the Director General. These are:
Earth Observation Programmes
Technical and Quality Management
Launcher Programmes
Human Spaceflight, Microgravity and Exploration Programmes
Resources Management
External Relations
Science Programmes
EU and Industrial Programmes
Operations and Infrastructure
Looks like if you want to know more of the direction that ESA is taking you should ask your contry's ESA Council Delegate. He will be a member of your country's ministerium responsible for space activities and will likely be beholden to rules of public scrutiny, depending on what country we are talking about.
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#48
by
mr.columbus
on 02 Jun, 2008 07:42
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#49
by
CentEur
on 21 Jul, 2008 14:58
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Jirka Dlouhy - 30/3/2008 2:07 PM
Czech Republic according to declaration of our government will be a member of ESA in second half of 2008. When it will succeed, that it will a good message for czech aerospatial industry a research.
What was your last PECS budget? Poland starts with the smallest possible € 1.1 million.
Here is an answar (of a kind) - "During the first four-year period, the overall contribution to the PECS by the Czech Republic amounted to approximately €12 million."
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMJZXSHKHF_index_0.html
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#50
by
Archibald
on 22 Jul, 2008 07:23
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In general, Council meetings are held every three months at delegate level and every two to three years at ministerial level
Was Rome (11-12 January 1985) the first of these meetings ?
Or did they started earlier ?
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#51
by
Use The World
on 18 Dec, 2012 22:49
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I arrived in Cayenne today and will go to ESA at Kourou tomorrow.
What is the best place to be to see the launch ?
Somebody here told me to go to Mount Peres
Thanks
Carsten
