Author Topic: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV  (Read 16430 times)

Offline Rob in KC

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #20 on: 12/05/2005 11:59 pm »
I believe it would only be unpressurized cargo if flying with crew. It's the bare minimum that NASA seems to be wanting to go near in its new unwritten policy of not mixing crew and cargo anymore.

Offline Colby

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #21 on: 12/06/2005 01:39 am »
Perhaps, but what why wouldn't NASA go for a mixed crew/cargo mission if the the safety and launch escape profile and procedures were the same. If NASA doesn't need a full crew load of four, and doesn't need a fully-loaded, cargo-ladened CEV flight, then why not?
Colby

Offline Avron

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #22 on: 12/06/2005 04:03 am »
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Colby - 5/12/2005  9:39 PM

Perhaps, but what why wouldn't NASA go for a mixed crew/cargo mission if the the safety and launch escape profile and procedures were the same. If NASA doesn't need a full crew load of four, and doesn't need a fully-loaded, cargo-ladened CEV flight, then why not?


Simple, the CAIB said not to mix cargo and humans..  by the time the CEV flys, there will be I hope a whole range of launch options for cargo, and maybe even humans from the private sector.

Offline nacnud

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #23 on: 12/06/2005 11:37 pm »
Maybe but if there is capacity in the CEV that isn't being used and stuff that needs to go up it would me very strange not to send it up in the CEV

Esentualy you'd be paying for a larger reuspply rocket than needed.

Offline HailColumbia

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #24 on: 12/07/2005 12:45 am »
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Avron - 6/12/2005  12:03 AM
Simple, the CAIB said not to mix cargo and humans.. by the time the CEV flys, there will be I hope a whole range of launch options for cargo, and maybe even humans from the private sector.

Doesnt that refer more to shuttle cargo bay sized items? I think the CAIB was just endorsing an OSP type philosopy, of cargobayless spacecraft.
-Steve

Offline Avron

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #25 on: 12/07/2005 04:46 am »
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HailColumbia - 6/12/2005  8:45 PM

Quote
Avron - 6/12/2005  12:03 AM
Simple, the CAIB said not to mix cargo and humans.. by the time the CEV flys, there will be I hope a whole range of launch options for cargo, and maybe even humans from the private sector.

Doesnt that refer more to shuttle cargo bay sized items? I think the CAIB was just endorsing an OSP type philosopy, of cargobayless spacecraft.

you may be correct, its all in the way its read or read into... bit more research needed.. more later..

Offline publiusr

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #26 on: 12/08/2005 06:50 pm »
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nacnud - 6/12/2005  6:37 PM

Maybe but if there is capacity in the CEV that isn't being used and stuff that needs to go up it would me very strange not to send it up in the CEV

Esentualy you'd be paying for a larger reuspply rocket than needed.

The problem is that the rockets today are SMALLER than what is needed. I almost wish the HLLV would come first, so as to allow Musk time to do more work. Soyuz would be used, and we would have an HLLV on one pad and STS on the other to finish ISS. The Stick should come last.

If we don't get HLLV on the books before the next election--I fear we will NEVER have true Heavy-Lift...ever.

Offline Avron

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #27 on: 12/09/2005 05:24 am »
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publiusr - 8/12/2005  2:50 PM

Quote
nacnud - 6/12/2005  6:37 PM

Maybe but if there is capacity in the CEV that isn't being used and stuff that needs to go up it would me very strange not to send it up in the CEV

Esentualy you'd be paying for a larger reuspply rocket than needed.

The problem is that the rockets today are SMALLER than what is needed. I almost wish the HLLV would come first, so as to allow Musk time to do more work. Soyuz would be used, and we would have an HLLV on one pad and STS on the other to finish ISS. The Stick should come last.

If we don't get HLLV on the books before the next election--I fear we will NEVER have true Heavy-Lift...ever.

I fear the same ... HLLV will be a long time in comming, but the stick is the easiest to get going time wise and maybe from a good press point of view... good press maybe more $$ for making the HLLV happen.

Or recertifty the Staturn V..

Offline possum

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #28 on: 01/20/2006 02:09 pm »
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Avron - 5/12/2005  11:03 PM
Simple, the CAIB said not to mix cargo and humans..  by the time the CEV flys, there will be I hope a whole range of launch options for cargo, and maybe even humans from the private sector.

I believe what the CAIB said was to separate crew and cargo to the greatest extent possible, meaning don't repeat the Shuttle mistake of mixing heavy lift with crew (the crew will always have to carry some cargo like food, water and small tools/instruments).  I seriously doubt the CAIB meant that you shouldn't remove an unused seat and put cargo in its place.

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publiusr - 8/12/2005  1:50 PM
If we don't get HLLV on the books before the next election--I fear we will NEVER have true Heavy-Lift...ever.

I think that the Exploration program and HLLV are going to be safe regardless of whether there's a Rep. or Dem. in the White House.  There will be too much momentum to change that by 2008.  Besides, the Prez hasn't exactly been out there pushing the Vision he initiated.  In fact, Congress has had to take the lead because the administration is not asking for the funding in its budget to carry out that Vision.  The 2005 Authorization Act by Congress was a resounding endorsement of the Vision and NASA in general.  They authorized a $1.5 billion increase next year followed by a $0.7 billion increase the following year.  We will just have to see if they follow that Authorization legislation with the all-important Appropriations legislation.  Rumor has it the White House and OMB will ask for much less than this (we got $16.4 billion for 2006).

From the legislation:

SEC. 202. FISCAL YEAR 2007.
There are authorized to be appropriated to NASA for fiscal year 2007 $17,932,000,000, as follows:
(1) For Science, Aeronautics, and Education (including amounts for construction of facilities), $7,136,800,000, of which $962,000,000 shall be for Aeronautics.
(2) For Exploration Systems and Space Operations (including amounts for construction of facilities), $10,761,700,000, of which $6,618,600,000 shall be for Space Operations.

SEC. 203. FISCAL YEAR 2008.
There are authorized to be appropriated to NASA for fiscal year 2008 $18,686,300,000 as follows:
(1) For Science, Aeronautics, and Education (including amounts for construction of facilities), $7,747,800,000, of which $990,000,000 shall be for Aeronautics.
(2) For Exploration Systems and Space Operations (including amounts for construction of facilities), $10,903,900,000, of which $6,546,600,000 shall be for Space Operations

Offline danw

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #29 on: 04/21/2006 05:56 pm »
>>I think that the Exploration program and HLLV are going to be safe regardless of whether there's a Rep. or Dem. in the White House. There will be too much momentum to change that by 2008. Besides, the Prez hasn't exactly been out there pushing the Vision he initiated. In fact, Congress has had to take the lead because the administration is not asking for the funding in its budget to carry out that Vision.

Unfortunately the next administration will HAVE to either substantially raise taxes or substantially cut expenditures, and Tom Delay will (probably) not be in Congress to support his district. I remember the interminable cuts that hobbled the Shuttle and delayed the Station by ten years. I haven't seen even the most enthusiastic supporter of space actually say publicly that everyone's taxes should be _increased_ to support space. The VSE has none of the international agreements that helped keep the ISS alive, and talk of a new Moon Race is wishful thinking. If budget pressure increases, it will be difficult to defend human flight to Mars or even the moon, and I hope Griffin is serious about not flying to the Moon without an adequate budget. I suspect the fallback position will be to drop even the moon flights and continue to support ISS with the CEV. But I could easily be wrong. Maybe NASA could do something really innovative instead, like support the US aerospace industry with marketable new technology? No, sorry, that's unrealistic.

Offline Kayla

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #30 on: 04/21/2006 07:01 pm »
Your comments are exactly why we must stop the CLV.  Spending $10B and 8 years on CLV while stripping funding from science, aeronautics and just about everywhere else will kill exploration.  Utilize both the Delta and Atlas vehicles as much as possible as is, AKA OSP.

Use the savings to move full steam ahead on the lunar mission.  Use 2014 or earlier as the goal for the first lunar mission, not first crewed CEV flight to LEO!

Offline publiusr

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RE: A Cynical Opinion of the SDLV & CEV
« Reply #31 on: 04/30/2006 09:11 pm »
"Science and aeronautics are what is killing exploration. The Air Force has more money than NASA--let them spend on aeronautics.

Between the time of the original ICBM programs and the EELVs, we had a whole lot more airplanes built than new rocket models--so I don't want to hear any more about how we don't spend enough on aeronaitics when it is rocket development that has suffered.

In the 25 years how many automated probes have we had--plenty. How many new manned space craft? Zilch.

That puts the lie to the claim that we don't spend enough on robotics.

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