The good Ole Days

[Steve_the_Deev]

Hey I wanted to introduce myself to all that love the Shuttle.  I was a MPS/SSME (Main Propulsion and Space Shuttle Main Engines) Engineer for many years. I was there before STS-1 with the white painted ET. That lasted about two flights.  We saved over 800 lbs by not applying it anymore.

I  told Chris I would register so I could share with you Shuttle Highlites and I will tell great stories and many near death scenarios too. Like I mentioned I got hired Jan 12th 1981 and we Launched Columbia April 12th after a scrub due to the 3 onboard GPCs being out of synch with each other in their "voting" logic.

I still have a great photo showing the Columbia at the Pad before STS-1 signed by John Young and Bob "Crip" Crippen the Cmndr and Pilot for the first flt. Interestingly the heartbeats of both guys were monitored for that first flight, John Young the venerable stoic Veteran was very low and he was totally relaxed. Crip's was pretty high.  I told Chris Bergin I would come on here so I've done it and now as time permits hope to tell some very interesting tales and debunk things like why can't the Shuttle go to the moon and why Columbia and Challenger were heavier.  Being an Engineer we see things and we test things in the MPS which is almost impossible to explain  but the big stuff like when we had the Hydrogen leaks on OV102 in 1990 (might have been 1991) my mind is fuzzy. I was the lead Engineer for finding that leak. That is one heck of a story because it involved the leak manifesting itself at LH2 temps (-423 F) only!  Safety regs would not allow a human to go find it but I and my team did. Also the broken Lox Temp Probe that made its way down towards the engines on again a Columbia Mission. Luckily we scrubbed that day and found that we had a problem.  Folks if we had launched we would have been ok until MECO then when the LOX Prevalves close, in this case it wouldn't have, we could have blown an engine Turbopump, it would not have been pretty.

I also keep up on all Shuttle stuff (I am medically retired now) and other rockets.  I worked as a Manufacturing Engr for two years when the Atlas program got really busy 1996-1998 then went to Vandenberg AFB in California to be the Fueling and Pad Leader (Huge responsibilities) for LockheedMartins Athena rocket program 1998-2000. We launched the IKONOS imaging sat. from SLC-6. This great imaging sat saw that P-3c Orion and Chinese Mig incident....remember? We saw the Chinese basicallly taking apart our P-3C Orion airplane that had to make an emergency landing in their country when one of their "Ace" Mig flyers forgot that the P-3c had props!  HA! He flew too close and we chopped him and his Mig up.  But we had highly sensitive electronics on board and could not destroy enough of it before the emergency landing. Anyway it was a big international incident. But the Chinese had not yet logged in the IKONOS Sat so they did not know we were watching all their moves! After Athena contracts basically fizzled and Vandenberg was going more for Ballistic Missile Defense I got a call to come back to Florida as a high level Staff Payloads engr on Shuttle. I was also offered a position at Stennis to help them testfire rocket engines.  I took the Shuttle job.  But right before I left (about a year) I fell real hard at the VAFB launch pad and crushed 3 discs in my back. I am still dealing with that and it causes great discomfort sometimes (two fusions and a new MIST technique saved my legs, Google DR. Donald Hilton it should come up).  So I will be available off and on for questions. By the way and not to brag but I knew the Shuttle system so well not just the Propulsion end but everything to a level that I can proudly say I was almost a Doctoral of the Vehicle, I was called a Systems Specialist. I don't  like to brag but I knew a lot and I would like to share some knowledge which still applies today.  I know the ET very well.   I sent to some collegues the article about the recent development in the use of NANO tubeFoam just developed to aid in this silly PAL Ramp fiasco, but to qualify this material would not meet the launch dates plus we still have Carbon Carbon but the Pal ramp shoud come off. The pressurization lines are very strong the Pal Ramp is way overkill in my opinion. Heck I was on Launch console and we loaded and unloaded six times one mission before either a boat cleared the zone, or an airplane was in the zone or a grnd radar failed etc.  That tank did not shed and we finally Launched Columbia on the seventh try. I think that is a record to this day!   So there we have it ! The term "DEEV" in my log name is short for Deviation.  It is a piece of paper that requires about 6 signatures to change a step or tolerance or whatever, even typos!  I wrote so many of those darn Deviations the Techs and every just started calling me Steve the DEEV.  Love the site

[lmike]

Cool.  First of all, thank you very much for joining and sharing your experience with us.  That was a great read.  

The SSME is an amazing piece of technology.  Now, a somewhat technical question, if I may, since you were an SSME engineer, what do you think it would take to make the SSMEs restartable, as it'll be used in the CLV launcher's upper stage, apparently.  Is it a large mod?  The fuel turbopump, would it need to be redesigned?

[FransonUK]

Very cool, welcome

[Rocket Ronnie]

Looking forward to the stories, we actually like Shuttles around these parts.

[UK Shuttle Clan]

Wow, hell of first post there Steve and its going to be great having you around here. Sorry to hear about your back injury, but wow I'm forever in awe on the careers you guys have with rockets, planes and all sorts of things that us mere mortals can only dream about. A very big welcome to the site.

[Terry Rocket]

Can't wait to hear about your stories Steve. That's got to be the most interesting first post this forum has seen in its early days of exsistance.

[Terry Rocket]

Chris, maybe when Steve is settled in and gets used to us all, we could make life simpler for him by having this as a Steve thread for his stories. It's in the perfect section for it.

Also not to waste his time, we could have a "Advanced" Shuttle Q and A. As I think the current Q and A which I set up is pretty easy for the likes of Flight, Ben, Chris etc etc to answer as its designed for people just getting into asking how things work.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=625&start=1

I'm just thinking that we don't want to overload Steve and waste his time on questions about why Shuttles have a roll program when he's an absolute expert and save him having to browse through a load of pages.

I'll wait to see what Chris and Steve think about that.

[STS Tony]

Welcome to the site! I look forward to learning from your experiences!

[Chris Bergin]

Welcome Steve, great for you to make it over here

[Chris Bergin]

Terry Rocket - 28/11/2005  2:28 PM

Chris, maybe when Steve is settled in and gets used to us all, we could make life simpler for him by having this as a Steve thread for his stories. It's in the perfect section for it.

Also not to waste his time, we could have a "Advanced" Shuttle Q and A. As I think the current Q and A which I set up is pretty easy for the likes of Flight, Ben, Chris etc etc to answer as its designed for people just getting into asking how things work.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=625&start=1

I'm just thinking that we don't want to overload Steve and waste his time on questions about why Shuttles have a roll program when he's an absolute expert and save him having to browse through a load of pages.

I'll wait to see what Chris and Steve think about that.

Not a bad idea - I'll let Steve get used to the site and then we'll see.

[Shuttle Scapegoat]

A big welcome and thanks for any time you can spare!

[SimonShuttle]

Wow, near death senarios?

I heard some engineers lost their lives prior to STS-1 when there was a problem with the hypogolic propellant loading? I wonder if you have similar stories. Not that I'm morbid, I just think it's underplayed just how dangerous these big ladies are.

[Steve_the_Deev]

Wow ! What a great welcome, I already feel at home.  I tend to post long stories the ones that I have in my memory are funny,sad, overloadied and on and on. Processing the Shuttle in those early days let's say the early days are STS-1 till Challenger. After the Challenger incident we were on the warpath to find out what REALLY happened.  No One was at home much for two years.  I will say we were really getting good at processing and launching the Shuttles until the idiots at NASA high level mngmnt basically forced us to launch on that Ice cold day when the O-rings had lost their sealing ability.

I was flying from KSC to Downey California (where the shuttles design group resided at Rockwell International) and home then off to JSC to meet with the Head level 2 and level 3 NASA managers.  We worked our tails off.  

But right now I do have to log off but I just had to say thankyou for such a warm welcome. One thing that always erked us engineers. When we launched the Shuttle on time etc. all the newspapers said .....Today NASA successfully launched STS XXX  for example, but if there was a delay like that darn Hydrogen leak it wasn't NASA it was us the contractors that goofed up!
NASA got the glory.  Man I can't wait to let loose, I may end up writing my book, "Space Shuttle Short Stories" via my posts!  There will be more heat than a Hotfire Abort and I was on console for at least 4 of those.  All you think about is, crap we can't see if there's a Hydrogen fire without UV or IR cameras. The crew was at a dangerous situation until NASA finally gave us MPS/SSME guys (we all sat together at consoles C3/C4 in the LCC) the visuals we needed.

Folks I gotta go ,
Lot's of Shuttle love to all.

[Rocket Ronnie]

This is great. It's like having a seat in the United Space Alliance canteen

[Martin FL]

Steve_the_Deev - 28/11/2005  12:13 PM

I will say we were really getting good at processing and launching the Shuttles until the idiots at NASA high level mngmnt basically forced us to launch on that Ice cold day when the O-rings had lost their sealing ability.

I remember either the vice president or the first lady was at the launch and that played a factor in deciding to go ahead with the launch. The now well documented protests prior to the launch from the ATK engineers are heartbreaking. Please God let the lessons be learnt now.

[Super George]

Well I'm going to say welcome too, although I think you get the idea that everyone thinks you are an amazing person to read experiences from and don't want to clog up the thread.

Can't wait to read your next info.

[Andy L]

What a guy, we're honored to have you here sir.

[Orbiter Obvious]

This is going to be required reading when Steve posts. That's for sure.

Steve_the_Deev - 28/11/2005  5:44 AM

 Also the broken Lox Temp Probe that made its way down towards the engines on again a Columbia Mission. Luckily we scrubbed that day and found that we had a problem.  Folks if we had launched we would have been ok until MECO then when the LOX Prevalves close, in this case it wouldn't have, we could have blown an engine Turbopump, it would not have been pretty.

Where have I heard that before, but on STS-114?

[Flightstar]

Great to have you around Steve. The people here have a very important quality that seems to be the backbone, respect. Makes a huge difference to other places that have a band of Scrap the Shuttle now gangs lurking for related pages.

[Chris Bergin]

Orbiter Obvious - 29/11/2005  1:42 AM

This is going to be required reading when Steve posts. That's for sure.

Steve_the_Deev - 28/11/2005  5:44 AM

 Also the broken Lox Temp Probe that made its way down towards the engines on again a Columbia Mission. Luckily we scrubbed that day and found that we had a problem.  Folks if we had launched we would have been ok until MECO then when the LOX Prevalves close, in this case it wouldn't have, we could have blown an engine Turbopump, it would not have been pretty.

Where have I heard that before, but on STS-114?

It was given as a similar senario had the ECO (Engine Cut Off) sensors failed during the final part of ascent. MECO has to be right on the money - with the ECOs keeping an eye on the levels in the ET - or the SSMEs keep on going with no propellant and overspin themselves to destruction, smashing back through the Orbiter....at least that's what I was told. Hardly a good situation, granted!