-
Atlantis shockwave picture
by
Hotdog
on 24 Jun, 2007 10:38
-
Hi Chris
That picture of the shuttle in your 'Atlantis avoids early retirement - will keep flying to 2010' article is fantastic. Do you have a high resolution version you can post?
Thanks
-
#1
by
DaveS
on 24 Jun, 2007 10:45
-
Hotdog - 24/6/2007 12:38 PM
Hi Chris
That picture of the shuttle in your 'Atlantis avoids early retirement - will keep flying to 2010' article is fantastic. Do you have a high resolution version you can post?
Thanks
Here you go:
http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/detail.cfm?mediaid=4720Edit: Corrected the link, thanks to ShuttleDiscovery for letting me know.
-
#2
by
ShuttleDiscovery
on 24 Jun, 2007 10:48
-
I think you've got the wrong picture Dave! That one's a shuttle crew in the white room at the pad...
-
#3
by
Hotdog
on 24 Jun, 2007 11:44
-
Wow. Thanks. It really is a great picture isn't it?
-
#4
by
Lee Jay
on 24 Jun, 2007 12:28
-
Images like this one are what make me hate film with the passion of a thousand burning SRBs!
I've attached a cleaned-up version.
-
#5
by
SimonShuttle
on 24 Jun, 2007 14:26
-
Hotdog - 24/6/2007 5:38 AM
Hi Chris
That picture of the shuttle in your 'Atlantis avoids early retirement - will keep flying to 2010' article is fantastic. Do you have a high resolution version you can post?
Thanks
The image is explained (and a full size desktop version) here.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=7708&start=1And yes, it's real.
-
#6
by
Rocket Guy
on 24 Jun, 2007 16:37
-
The image is from film; it's a still from a videofilm tracking camera.
-
#7
by
Carl G
on 24 Jun, 2007 17:10
-
Is it actually the point at which the stack is breaking the sound barrier? Is that what we see with the bow wave?
-
#8
by
Ford Mustang
on 24 Jun, 2007 17:15
-
Yes, Carl. She's about to go through the sound barrier, and keeps on truckin'
-
#9
by
Rocket Guy
on 24 Jun, 2007 17:23
-
No, technically the shockwave happens at or near breaking the sound barrier but it is not correlated with the instant it does. That's why you see it last as long as ten seconds sometimes.
-
#10
by
rsnellenberger
on 24 Jun, 2007 17:43
-
Lee, thanks for your cleaned-up version of the picture... my first thought upon looking at the "original" large size on the NASA website was "Darn it! Can't put that on my desktop", but yours is already there...
-
#11
by
terynd
on 24 Jun, 2007 19:14
-
a stunning picture indeed. We are extremely lucky to be able to witness such an incredible aerodynamic phemnomena. Often misinterpreted and ill-explained, what you are really seeing is a Prandtl-Glauart Singularity cloud caused by the amplification of pressure disturbances at or near the speed of sound. I looked into the math and confirmed it theoretically. Under the right conditions the Singularity can be visualized by the human eye as a result of the reduction in local pressure caused by the amplification. With the drop in pressure at points around the vehicle, there is a corresponding drop in local temperature leading to condensation (assuming the air is near the saturation point) causing a cloud. for us to see this on the Space shuttle, there has to be sufficient moisture at the altitude where the shuttle goes transonic.
Often assumed, the outline of the cloud DOES NOT define the edge of the shockwave (shockwaves cause an INCREASE in pressure and temperature across them). The shockwave and PG clouds are not related and caused by two different aerodynamic mechanisms.
-
#12
by
chksix
on 24 Jun, 2007 20:03
-
That image is "desktopped" as of now!
Raw power defined!!
-
#13
by
Launch Fan
on 24 Jun, 2007 20:24
-
-
#14
by
Lee Jay
on 25 Jun, 2007 00:41
-
terynd - 24/6/2007 1:14 PM
a stunning picture indeed. We are extremely lucky to be able to witness such an incredible aerodynamic phemnomena. Often misinterpreted and ill-explained, what you are really seeing is a Prandtl-Glauart Singularity cloud caused by the amplification of pressure disturbances at or near the speed of sound.
I agree that the cloud is a Prandtl-Glauart Singularity. But the rainbow looks to me more like a shock visualized in more of a Schlieren sort of way by the lighting. What do you think?
Lee Jay
-
#15
by
terynd
on 25 Jun, 2007 04:44
-
Good point. We'll assume at the moment that we don't have any optical illusions/effects going on here. If that rainbow-colored cloud was the actual shock, then I dont believe that you would see it through condensation because the pressure increases through the shock (pressure has to drop to support condensation). If there's a rainbow, then there must be condensation or water vapor droplets to create the rainbow. This condensation is only created by a drop in local pressure. So, all this doesn't support that we are seeing the shock in this image. Plus we don't see the bow shock which would also be seen if there was a Schlieren effect here.
I look forward to hearing more ideas on this.
-
#16
by
madmardy
on 25 Jun, 2007 08:07
-
Ben - 24/6/2007 5:37 PM
The image is from film; it's a still from a videofilm .
Thats an oxymoron i feel
-
#17
by
meiza
on 25 Jun, 2007 10:10
-
Not from video but from a 35mm cinema film reel.
-
#18
by
Lee Jay
on 25 Jun, 2007 12:54
-
terynd - 24/6/2007 10:44 PM
Good point. We'll assume at the moment that we don't have any optical illusions/effects going on here. If that rainbow-colored cloud was the actual shock, then I dont believe that you would see it through condensation because the pressure increases through the shock (pressure has to drop to support condensation). If there's a rainbow, then there must be condensation or water vapor droplets to create the rainbow.
I don't really find this argument persuasive since there are other ways besides droplets to get scattering.
This condensation is only created by a drop in local pressure. So, all this doesn't support that we are seeing the shock in this image. Plus we don't see the bow shock which would also be seen if there was a Schlieren effect here.
On the other hand, I find this argument very persuasive. If this is a shock, where is the bow shock! Case closed in my mind - P-G singularity caused the rainbow - makes more sense to me.
-
#19
by
Jim
on 25 Jun, 2007 14:01
-
it is the classic P-G singularity
