RE: LIVE: STS-117 Flight Day 13 - Pre-entry check-outs

• #160 by fauxpaw on 21 Jun, 2007 18:36
• Is is possible that the orbital adjust burn will effect the viewing opportunity tonight?  I've really enjoyed watching them move in tandem across the sky the past couple of nights.
• #161 by titanium_cranium on 21 Jun, 2007 18:38
• Just hypothetically, my neighbor and I were discussing the landing of the shuttle, and he asked me, "If there is no way they are able to land the shuttle and they run out of time, what then?" I honestly couldn't think of a way that could really happen without an almost supernatural chain of events taking place. The only thing that really made sense to me was going back to the ISS, which can be re-supplied, and try to invent a way to get the shuttle back down to earth with a minimal amount of consumable fuel. That is really the only real way I could think of that happening, unless of course the shuttle can hook up a with a soyuz or a progress?
• #162 by Chris Bergin on 21 Jun, 2007 18:41
• Quote

  titanium_cranium - 21/6/2007  7:38 PM
  
  Just hypothetically, my neighbor and I were discussing the landing of the shuttle, and he asked me, "If there is no way they are able to land the shuttle and they run out of time, what then?" I honestly couldn't think of a way that could really happen without an almost supernatural chain of events taking place. The only thing that really made sense to me was going back to the ISS, which can be re-supplied, and try to invent a way to get the shuttle back down to earth with a minimal amount of consumable fuel. That is really the only real way I could think of that happening, unless of course the shuttle can hook up a with a soyuz or a progress?

  
  Afraid they can't go back to the ISS now. That option is available for a while after undocking, but the seperation would be too much now I believe.
  
  They can land. It would be really unheard of for them to not have all three options open during the final attempts, after that there are many overseas options (TAL - Transatlantic Abort sites etc. Even saw a PDF I think we put on L2 which showed literally hundreds of alternatives for Shuttle and Soyuz in a big time emergancy...like the very long runway at RAF Fairford in England), but - according to people in the know - that would be very, very unlikely to be required.
• #163 by Bubbinski on 21 Jun, 2007 18:42
• The ISS would be an absolute last resort, the only way I could imagine that ever happening is if Armageddon/nuclear war happened down on earth.  Of course in that case docking with the ISS would be the least of their worries.  There's a host of TAL landing strips and other sites they could try (air force bases and the like).
• #164 by sts1canada on 21 Jun, 2007 18:42
• Quote

  fauxpaw - 21/6/2007  2:36 PM
  
  Is is possible that the orbital adjust burn will effect the viewing opportunity tonight?  I've really enjoyed watching them move in tandem across the sky the past couple of nights.

  
  It will by only a few seconds, it is not a very big orbital adjust burn, so your viewing times will still be around the same, the shuttle and station will be about 100 miles apart by later tonight so you will see a bigger gap between them now than the past couple of nights.
  
  Richard
  
• #165 by titanium_cranium on 21 Jun, 2007 18:46
• That is what I thought as well, however I heard some talk of going back to the ISS if somethign goes wrong after the undocking. I didn't think about the change in  orbit and trajectory, and how much consumable material would be required to re-adjust orbit to met up with ISS. I guess landing is the only option. Yet another reason I would rather be watching them from down here.
• #166 by STS-500Cmdr on 21 Jun, 2007 18:53
• To expand on GW_Simulations question a bit if i may and offer my answer--if the weather was bad at all 3--if the circumstances warranted--let says saturday when the backs are against the wallthey would look at each site on a case-by-case basis and pick the lesser evils with perfhaps a slight violation of the rules.  No one expects the weather to be so bad they cant get into any of the 3 sites. Going back to ISS would be a one way trip because you would use the shuttle's deorbit gas.  If that did happen they would start looking at emergency landing sites that we always carry in the inventory.  Going to a site other than the 3 sites would have much bigger program implications but in a last ditch effort to save the vehicle, they look at sites that would be used for any emergency like a hole in the cabin or some other emergency--rather than going back to ISS and abandoning the ship if it were perfectly safe for entry otherwise.    For tomorrow--ill invoke Bob Crippen's words  "What a way to come to California"  :cool:  :laugh:  
• #167 by Bubbinski on 21 Jun, 2007 18:54
• Generally, from what I've read, the option to return to ISS after undocking is there in the unlikely event that the late inspection shows damage to the heat shield that can't be repaired.  That's why the shuttle hangs about 40 miles away on the day after undocking.  I had thought that the shuttle stayed there until the go was given for the deorbit burn but from what Chris is saying that's not the case.
• #168 by Chris Bergin on 21 Jun, 2007 19:01
• I'm checking. I know they have the ISS return in case of a problem with late inspection, but not afterwards (at least that is what I was told). Maybe they do, but obviously they don't make plaster it all over the information, as a return event would be a LON event.
  
  Someone far better informed than me will clarify I'm sure. Not that this is remotely going to be the case with this mission of course.
• #169 by psloss on 21 Jun, 2007 19:04
• Quote

  sts1canada - 21/6/2007  2:12 PM
  
  NO, the weather at EDW is good for the first opportunity for landing on Friday, the weather worsens slightly (stronger winds) for the second EDW opportunity, KSC has a chance of showers/t-storms forecast for both its opps. White Sands will not be called up unless EDW and KSC both are forecast to have bad weather for both of their opps., they want to land tomorrow, so I think EDW on the first EDW attempt is the way it is going to go right now.
  

  It sounds like this upcoming burn basically shifts the two EDW opportunities up one orbit (before it was 220&221, after the burn it would be 219&220), which could both be early enough in the day to get in before the winds go out of limits.  That should make for a more favorable EDW forecast for tomorrow...
  
  Edit: reading a transcript of the air-to-ground, it sounds like staying up until Saturday is no longer a favored option, but if the Saturday EDW revs also move up one orbit, it might have the same effect on the Saturday forecast.  Still, it seems like the winds are around the margins and they aren't going to wait until Saturday.
  
  Edit2: re-reading the current opportunities, it looks like the Saturday EDW opportunities are unchanged.
  
• #170 by ShuttleDiscovery on 21 Jun, 2007 19:11
• Quote

  Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007  8:01 PM
  
  I'm checking. I know they have the ISS return in case of a problem with late inspection, but not afterwards (at least that is what I was told). Maybe they do, but obviously they don't make plaster it all over the information, as a return event would be a LON event.
  
  Someone far better informed than me will clarify I'm sure. Not that this is remotely going to be the case with this mission of course.

  
  Must be pretty hard to leave the ISS with unrepairable damage as surely the sensors would pick damage that big up? But then again an MMOD hit could occur after undocking...
• #171 by outward on 21 Jun, 2007 19:39
• Quote

  Chris Bergin - 21/6/2007  3:41 PM
  
  

  Quote

  titanium_cranium - 21/6/2007  7:38 PM
  
  Just hypothetically, my neighbor and I were discussing the landing of the shuttle, and he asked me, "If there is no way they are able to land the shuttle and they run out of time, what then?" I honestly couldn't think of a way that could really happen without an almost supernatural chain of events taking place. The only thing that really made sense to me was going back to the ISS, which can be re-supplied, and try to invent a way to get the shuttle back down to earth with a minimal amount of consumable fuel. That is really the only real way I could think of that happening, unless of course the shuttle can hook up a with a soyuz or a progress?

  
  Afraid they can't go back to the ISS now. That option is available for a while after undocking, but the seperation would be too much now I believe.
  
  They can land. It would be really unheard of for them to not have all three options open during the final attempts, after that there are many overseas options (TAL - Transatlantic Abort sites etc. Even saw a PDF I think we put on L2 which showed literally hundreds of alternatives for Shuttle and Soyuz in a big time emergancy...like the very long runway at RAF Fairford in England), but - according to people in the know - that would be very, very unlikely to be required.

  
  Hey Chris,
  
  I would think, given the shuttle has enough propellant for a de-orbit burn, that it would have enough fuel to perform a new rendevous, if required, with the ISS, considering that both spacecraft are stilll in very similar orbits. I can see how the shuttle may not have enough Total propellant (in the attitude control jets) to perform a complete docking, but returning to the near vicinity of the ISS seems probable. Maybe an orbital mech. guy could comment on this.
  
  
• #172 by Chris Bergin on 21 Jun, 2007 19:39
• MMOD is a big danger to orbiters (second only to Launch and Launch I think), so that's a valid point. Anyway, we've only had a one day wave off, so let's get off this doom talk as there's one very heathy Atlantis on orbit.
• #173 by boltimuss on 21 Jun, 2007 19:46
• So I am currently listening to NASA TV and there is not a lot of chatter. What do the astronauts really do once they have to wait a day? Take pictures? Play chess? Was just wondering....
  
  
  ~Bolt
• #174 by ApolloLee on 21 Jun, 2007 20:09
• Quote

  boltimuss - 21/6/2007  12:46 PM
  
  So I am currently listening to NASA TV and there is not a lot of chatter. What do the astronauts really do once they have to wait a day? Take pictures? Play chess? Was just wondering....
  
  
  ~Bolt

  
  Wondered the same thing, though I don't think having nothing to do while you have that kind of view out the window is such a bad thing...
• #175 by Chris Bergin on 21 Jun, 2007 20:10
• Atlantis will land tomorrow regardless.
  
  Saturday looks 'iffy' - to quote NASA - at all three sites.
  
  Atlantis will land tomorrow unless all attempts at both Edwards and KSC are no go. White Sands still being looked at for option 3 Friday.
• #176 by gordo on 21 Jun, 2007 20:23
• Quote

  boltimuss - 21/6/2007  8:46 PM
  
  So I am currently listening to NASA TV and there is not a lot of chatter. What do the astronauts really do once they have to wait a day? Take pictures? Play chess? Was just wondering....
  
  
  ~Bolt

  
  Magnetic chess  :bleh:
• #177 by Chris Bergin on 21 Jun, 2007 20:25
• OA (Orbit Alteration) burn in work. Apogee raise. Phase burn of RCS. Coming up in 19 minutes.
  
  Changes will be:
  15 feet per second velocity increase.
  Heading for a 220x206 orbit for earlier landing opportunities tomorrow.
• #178 by Lee Jay on 21 Jun, 2007 20:27
• How early do they have to make a decision as to Edwards or KSC on the orbit in which both are available?
• #179 by DaveS on 21 Jun, 2007 20:49
• Good OA burn using +X RCS jets, no trim required.