Space tourism by EADS

[Danderman]

Branson is smart enough to promise to build a spaceport anywhere in Europe that this proposal claims to fly from. Did you notice, BTW, that it seems to be taking off a desert in the animation? Are there deserts in Europe these days?

[hektor]

It might take off from Tozeur, Tunisia, according to this source.

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/en_francais/story.html?id=28a44b21-2daa-4c74-ada0-1adcb76b0072&k=68781

Anyway it proves nothing. Just that the company which was contracted to make a movie found it more expedient to use a desert landscape as background.

[hektor]

http://us.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/06/14/space.plane.ap/index.html

Bavaria could invest in the project it seems.

[bad_astra]

This morning Branson was green... and now he is red...

Branson isn't about to blow a gigaeuro on something that could done for a fraction of the cost.
I'd say his color remains the same as always. Hmm, how far back was it that Virgin delayed their 380 orders? 4 years was it?

Danderman - 14/6/2007  11:06 AM  My sources say it is merely an attempt to get study money from ESA. If you check back in a year, you might hear about the study, otherwise this will disappear. EADS/Astrium is not likely to actually float bonds to make this happen.

Correct.

Rutan and Allen proofed the concept. Branson is proving the market (enough). EADS is faking a slipstream of the venture, just to see if it can scare up interest.

At this point its more for show, not for revenue - way more better ways to do that.

Overall this is a good thing - inspirational. But don't bet money on anything being built.

[EE Scott]

Doesn't EADS have anything better to do with their vast talent and money than this lame, "me-too" gesture?  Have they no originality?  This is a low-point for them IMO.

Why does everything coming out of Euro and Russian aerospace have to be in reaction to something others (such as the US) are doing as opposed to being pro-active and leading the way?  Is there no creativity or leadership in these organizations?  It's like, "Oh look what these guys are doing, let's do that too..."  I'm just frustrated because I feel that EADS and others should be pushing us to go to the next level in capabilities, not just copying other efforts.

[meiza]

Maybe it's the institutionalization of things, and these large entities can't do quick moves. For some reason there don't seem to be that many smaller groups or they don't have as much resources as in the USA.
For example, I followed an innovative german team working on X-Prize but they vanished without a trace many years before the prize was won.
There is also innovative small scale stuff like SPL, the Swiss Propulsion Lab, but the media is not interested in them at all. So there _is_ stuff here in the Europe, you just don't hear about them, also I think that's why it's harder for them to get money.

[bad_astra]

Why does everything coming out of Euro and Russian aerospace have to be in reaction to something others (such as the US) are doing as opposed to being pro-active and leading the way?

Not everything is. Look at ARCA

[EE Scott]

meiza/bad astra,

You are both right - I was oversimplifying.  To me I feel that Europe is loaded with talent and capabilities so I keep expecting/hoping for some new, innovative euro ideas/programs to push aerospace forward.  Mostly just for the sheer excitment of seeing frontiers pushed back, but also it would be nice to provide additional motivation for the US to invest more in aerospace research.  I will seek out more info on the programs you mention.

EE Scott - 15/6/2007  11:28 AM  ... To me I feel that Europe is loaded with talent and capabilities so I keep expecting/hoping for some new, innovative euro ideas/programs to push aerospace forward. ...

Europe (and Asia) are loaded with talent. But business is very cynical these days - they restrain that talent for good reasons. At this stage, its capturing public enthusiasm, which do to our "dumbed down" and "fear culture" doesn't respond as you'd like.

Vision isn't in. (VSE doesn't count here).

[Danderman]

Once Branson is flying successfully (if that happens), then there would be an explosion of private investment in similar ventures. Not many people invested heavily in the WWW until someone made the first dollar from the web.

[publiusr]

This probably is a make-work project, but I would put them ahead of Rutan for the time being. Unless Branson buys an A380 and also uses that to launch a craft from it during a trip.

[EE Scott]

It is kind of interesting that if EADS goes forward with this, then they are alienating an important customer.  Hasn't Branson been a faithful buyer of Airbus products for many years?  Why compete with him and sour the relationship?

[hektor]

Why ? they can compete with Scaled and offer their vehicle to Branson ? Airbus is not competing with Virgin ...

So far there was (nearly) only one game in town, so it was normal that Branson picks Scaled. Now there is EADS as well so maybe he can reconsider.

[Danderman]

publiusr - 16/6/2007  1:35 PM  This probably is a make-work project, but I would put them ahead of Rutan for the time being. Unless Branson buys an A380 and also uses that to launch a craft from it during a trip.

 

I am not understanding how you could put a concept that might possibly fly 5 years from now "ahead" of a system that is scheduled for roll-out within 12 months.

 

[Danderman]

hektor - 18/6/2007  10:20 AM  Why ? they can compete with Scaled and offer their vehicle to Branson ? Airbus is not competing with Virgin ...  So far there was (nearly) only one game in town, so it was normal that Branson picks Scaled. Now there is EADS as well so maybe he can reconsider.

 

 Are you suggesting that Branson might issue a "stop work" order for SpaceShip Two in favor of a system that is not scheduled to fly until 2012? What happens to the 100+ people who have bought tickets to fly on SpaceShip Two?

 

[hektor]

I am just suggesting that when the Astrium vehicle is available he could phase out his spaceshiptwos if the newcomer proves more profitable. He is the airline, not the airframe manufacturer.

I think that the notion that Astrium is competing against Virgin is wrong. Astrium is competing against Scaled, or whatever is the name Rutan has given to the SpaceShipTwo manufacturer.

[nacnud]

"The Spaceship Company is jointly owned by Branson's Virgin Group and Scaled" - Space.com

[CentEur]

hektor - 18/6/2007  7:58 PM

I am just suggesting that when the Astrium vehicle is available he could phase out his spaceshiptwos if the newcomer proves more profitable. He is the airline, not the airframe manufacturer.

I think that the notion that Astrium is competing against Virgin is wrong. Astrium is competing against Scaled, or whatever is the name Rutan has given to the SpaceShipTwo manufacturer.

That's what Virgin Galactic's Alex Tai openly declared - "If you have a better spaceship than Burt Rutan, then Virgin Galactic wants to operate that spaceship".

[EE Scott]

But isn't EADS going to operate their vehicle?  They are not just going to manufacture a vehicle and hope that some other company buys it and builds the spaceport and operates it, etc.  I got the impression that EADS is implementing a direct competitor to Virgin - how can they not be a competitor to Virgin when they are basically going to offer the exact same service?