Author Topic: 6 segment SRB?  (Read 17531 times)

Offline gladiator1332

  • Mike Majeski
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Fort Myers, FL
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 5
RE: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #20 on: 08/08/2007 03:52 AM »
Here is what a 6 seg Ares I would look like in comparison to the current 5 seg:


Offline MKremer

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3909
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 487
RE: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #21 on: 08/08/2007 04:06 AM »
Quote
gladiator1332 - 7/8/2007  10:52 PM

Here is what a 6 seg Ares I would look like in comparison to the current 5 seg:


Change the nickname to "The Syringe".

Offline gladiator1332

  • Mike Majeski
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Fort Myers, FL
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 5
RE: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #22 on: 08/08/2007 04:30 AM »
Quote
MKremer - 7/8/2007  12:06 AM

Quote
gladiator1332 - 7/8/2007  10:52 PM

Here is what a 6 seg Ares I would look like in comparison to the current 5 seg:


Change the nickname to "The Syringe".

I always thought the 5 seg looked out of proportion...but when you put it next to The Syringe, it looks quite nice.

Personally, I think we need a new nickname for the Stick. Look at the Ares I Evolution thread, ever since the CEV diameter went to 5.0m, Ares I has looked more like a German Potato Masher grenade.

Offline the_roche_lobe

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #23 on: 08/08/2007 12:28 PM »
Just out of interest only, is PBAN the highest ISP solid compound around? Has any reasonable solid compound broken the '300 barrier', and if so what was the 'magic ingredient'? (I'm not for a moment suggesting that this would be a practical and cost effective way to boost the performance of the existing SRB BTW)

P

Offline BogoMIPS

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 271
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #24 on: 08/08/2007 12:51 PM »
If we really get to the point that a 6th SRB segment is needed (which I don't think would happen), I think Stumpy (2x3 segment SRBs) is more likely.

If more performance is needed from the Stick at this point, and 1 5 Seg SRB and 1 J-2 derivative isn't going to cut it, I would expect to see a change in the upperstage to account for it now... Either a wider u/s with 2 J-2 derivatives, or a different upperstage engine all together.

Either that, or Orion will continue to downsize to match the Stick's performance.

Offline gladiator1332

  • Mike Majeski
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Fort Myers, FL
  • Liked: 4
  • Likes Given: 5
RE: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #25 on: 08/08/2007 04:41 PM »
Another render to include a 260in solid first stage

Offline kevin-rf

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8652
  • Overlooking the path Mary's little Lamb took..
  • Liked: 1124
  • Likes Given: 243
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #26 on: 08/08/2007 05:26 PM »
uummm wasn't the aerojet 260 solid a monolithic solid and not a segmened solid?

So what is the throw weight of that baby... Anyone know how long it would need to be to meet the orion mass goals?
If you're happy and you know it,
It's your med's!

Offline Steve G

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 185
  • Edmonton, AB
    • Stephen H Garrity
  • Liked: 80
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #27 on: 08/08/2007 05:50 PM »
For the sake of continuing the 260 solid discussion, assume they build the plant at KSC or near water.  What would the performance be for the Ares 1-260, and also, the Ares V-260?.  Also, what kind of weight would we be looking at?  I doubt if the crawlers could handle it.  lastly, in this day and age, what kind of danger would all these solids pose if there was a fire or terrorist attack?  That thought screamed at me when 9-11 was taking place.  What if they flew into the VAB?

Offline henrycheck

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 84
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #28 on: 08/08/2007 06:26 PM »
Quote
Steve G - 8/8/2007  1:50 PM

For the sake of continuing the 260 solid discussion, assume they build the plant at KSC or near water.  What would the performance be for the Ares 1-260, and also, the Ares V-260?.  Also, what kind of weight would we be looking at?  I doubt if the crawlers could handle it.  lastly, in this day and age, what kind of danger would all these solids pose if there was a fire or terrorist attack?  That thought screamed at me when 9-11 was taking place.  What if they flew into the VAB?

Why would the weight be different? Might even be lighter as the shape would be more efficient.

Explosive potential might be less as well since the exposed area would be smaller.

Quick calculation . . .

To have the same volume as a five-segment SRB, a 260-inch diameter motor would need to be about 60 feet high.

(3.14)[(148/2)^2](185)(12) = 38,000,000 cubic inches

(3.14)[(260/2)^2](h)(12) = 640,000h cubic inches

h = 60 feet


Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11186
  • Likes Given: 331
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #29 on: 08/08/2007 06:29 PM »
Why all the talk about 260?   The stick doesn't just use the SRB's because they are solid.  They are used because there is flight history.   A liquid stage would be used before the 260 since there is some flight history since the stage would use existing engines

Offline henrycheck

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 84
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #30 on: 08/08/2007 06:36 PM »
Quote
Jim - 8/8/2007  2:29 PM

Why all the talk about 260?   The stick doesn't just use the SRB's because they are solid.  They are used because there is flight history.   A liquid stage would be used before the 260 since there is some flight history since the stage would use existing engines


Continued use of solids might placate our friends in Utah.

Offline kfsorensen

  • aerospace and nuclear engineer
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • Huntsville, AL
    • Flibe Energy
  • Liked: 117
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #31 on: 08/08/2007 06:43 PM »
Quote
henrycheck - 8/8/2007  1:36 PM

Continued use of solids might placate our friends in Utah.
Yeah, with their vast political power....

Offline EE Scott

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1153
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 138
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #32 on: 08/08/2007 06:48 PM »
I doubt that ATK would be contracted to build a recreation of an Aerojet design.  Although the way decisions seem to get made currently, one must never say never...
Scott

Online William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4209
  • Liked: 213
  • Likes Given: 90
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #33 on: 08/08/2007 06:53 PM »
Quote
Lee Jay - 7/8/2007  11:43 PM
Bottom line, if you want to move something in the US that's both larger in diameter and heavier than the current SRB segments, you have to do it over water where the limits are, well, insanely large.

Super Guppy?

Offline henrycheck

  • Member
  • Member
  • Posts: 84
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #34 on: 08/08/2007 07:00 PM »
Quote
EE Scott - 8/8/2007  2:48 PM

I doubt that ATK would be contracted to build a recreation of an Aerojet design.  Although the way decisions seem to get made currently, one must never say never...


If you wanted to build big solids, why not ATK? Mix the propellant in Utah, ship by train, cast in Florida.

Offline Lee Jay

  • Elite Veteran
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6683
  • Liked: 982
  • Likes Given: 140
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #35 on: 08/08/2007 07:10 PM »
Quote
GW_Simulations - 8/8/2007  12:53 PM

Quote
Lee Jay - 7/8/2007  11:43 PM
Bottom line, if you want to move something in the US that's both larger in diameter and heavier than the current SRB segments, you have to do it over water where the limits are, well, insanely large.

Super Guppy?

WAY too heavy.  Antonov 225, maybe.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11186
  • Likes Given: 331
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #36 on: 08/08/2007 07:12 PM »
Quote
henrycheck - 8/8/2007  3:00 PM

Quote
EE Scott - 8/8/2007  2:48 PM

I doubt that ATK would be contracted to build a recreation of an Aerojet design.  Although the way decisions seem to get made currently, one must never say never...


If you wanted to build big solids, why not ATK? Mix the propellant in Utah, ship by train, cast in Florida.

The propellant has to be cast so after it is mixed

Online William Graham

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4209
  • Liked: 213
  • Likes Given: 90
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #37 on: 08/08/2007 07:12 PM »
Quote
Lee Jay - 8/8/2007  8:10 PM

Quote
GW_Simulations - 8/8/2007  12:53 PM

Quote
Lee Jay - 7/8/2007  11:43 PM
Bottom line, if you want to move something in the US that's both larger in diameter and heavier than the current SRB segments, you have to do it over water where the limits are, well, insanely large.

Super Guppy?

WAY too heavy.  Antonov 225, maybe.

How about the 747LCA?

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11186
  • Likes Given: 331
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #38 on: 08/08/2007 07:12 PM »
Quote
Lee Jay - 8/8/2007  3:10 PM

Quote
GW_Simulations - 8/8/2007  12:53 PM

Quote
Lee Jay - 7/8/2007  11:43 PM
Bottom line, if you want to move something in the US that's both larger in diameter and heavier than the current SRB segments, you have to do it over water where the limits are, well, insanely large.

Super Guppy?

WAY too heavy.  Antonov 225, maybe.

Still too heavy

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32440
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 11186
  • Likes Given: 331
Re: 6 segment SRB?
« Reply #39 on: 08/08/2007 07:12 PM »
Quote
Lee Jay - 8/8/2007  3:10 PM

Quote
GW_Simulations - 8/8/2007  12:53 PM

Quote
Lee Jay - 7/8/2007  11:43 PM
Bottom line, if you want to move something in the US that's both larger in diameter and heavier than the current SRB segments, you have to do it over water where the limits are, well, insanely large.

Super Guppy?

WAY too heavy.  Antonov 225, maybe.

Still too heavy

Tags: