Author Topic: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update  (Read 50945 times)

Offline meiza

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #80 on: 09/04/2007 09:09 pm »
Once again they learn stuff from the module flight without crashing anything, when the motor top popped off... Tethered testing with takeoff from fall away poles is a very good thing.

Offline braddock

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RE: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #81 on: 09/05/2007 05:58 am »
Great update.

The crash in the video looks pretty benign and well controlled.  They reacted FAST!

And wow, they flew the new module and flies VERY SMOOTHLY.  It just hangs there, effortlessly.




Offline nacnud

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #82 on: 09/05/2007 11:36 am »
With the new module I wonder if the long legs help stability much, they should give it a high level of angular momentum compared to it's mass. IE they might damp out motions about the centre of gravity giving a more stable flight.

Offline JesseD

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #83 on: 09/05/2007 01:34 pm »
Also, I remember hearing that the quad vehicles had an issue where the fuel/lox would drain from one tank faster than the other and they were working out ways to pump back and forth or somehow equalize the drain.  Having all your tanks vertical above your COG must help with stability too!

Offline gladiator1332

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #84 on: 09/06/2007 03:37 pm »
It is great to see that Armadillo shares both its successes and failures. It is also amazing at how calm they stay during the crash, it really seemed like they had control of a situation that could have easily gotten out of control.

And congrats to them on the Module hover, looked really stable and under control.

Offline yinzer

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #85 on: 09/07/2007 06:55 am »
Quote
Surprisingly, the flight computer was continuing to operate and transmit through all of this, but the sensor and wiring harnesses were shorted out in the fire, so we didn't have any sense of the state of the tanks.  With trepidation, someone approached the vehicle and found that the lox tanks were still full and pressurized at the same pressure as when the vehicle was shut down.

Anyone else find this a little scary, especially in light of the recent Scaled tragedy?
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Offline savuporo

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #86 on: 09/07/2007 09:15 am »
i find it ballsy and entirely appropriate for the situation.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline meiza

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #87 on: 09/07/2007 01:54 pm »
Hmm, I wondered that myself too. But what can you do in such a situation? Maybe you could let it sit for a day and have most of the lox boil and exit through relief valves.

Offline Noachian

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #88 on: 09/07/2007 04:48 pm »
It really does a number on the concrete below it.  During the hover you can see big chunks blasting away in all directions, including up as high as the vehicle itself.

Offline yinzer

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #89 on: 09/07/2007 06:52 pm »
Quote
meiza - 7/9/2007  6:54 AM

Hmm, I wondered that myself too. But what can you do in such a situation? Maybe you could let it sit for a day and have most of the lox boil and exit through relief valves.

I didn't know either.  Have the remote abort vent the tanks?  Have a long stick with a hook at the end that you use to reach out and pull a lanyard on the vehicle to trigger vent valves?  Or even just sit and wait.  They obviously weren't flying Texel again that day anyway, so what's the rush?

I mean, if a fire-damaged valve decided to let go either as the person approached or when he tried to trigger it, they'd easily be seriously injured or killed.  "Build a little, test a little, crash a little" is one thing, but "build a little, test a little, maim a little" is something else entirely.

I'm interested to know what any of the pro rocket types feel about this.
California 2008 - taking rights from people and giving rights to chickens.

Offline JesseD

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RE: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #90 on: 10/22/2007 06:22 pm »
Armadillo is taking their module and their quad vehicle Pixel (the MOD and the QUAD) to the XPrize Cup this weekend. Cohn Carmack posted a video of the module doing a Level 1 qualification free-flight.

Offline meiza

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #91 on: 10/22/2007 07:58 pm »
Yeah, there won't be an official Armadillo update before the X-Prize cup race. The MOD (Module) will run for the 90 second and Pixel (A quad, last year's veteran) for 180 second prize.

Offline hop

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #92 on: 10/23/2007 08:12 pm »
Thanks for the video link JesseD, that module flight looks very good.  Hopefully they can repeat that performance at the XPC :)

Offline Crispy

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #93 on: 10/23/2007 09:06 pm »
Very smooth, although there's quite a bit of feedback in the controls when landing - it swings about a bit. But still, very impressive.

Offline JesseD

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #94 on: 10/24/2007 04:11 am »
Sure thing, hop.  Crispy, I think some of the swingy-ness of the module was due to the wind.  One of the AA guys said that the winds during that flight were almost past their flight safety limit of 25 MPH.

 
Quote
The MOD just flew a qualification flight for AST into the teeth of a wind
that was pushing our flight safety limit of 25 mph. Had to fight it all the
way across the 100-m pads, but we stuck a precision landing with propellant
to spare. Looks like we will have both the MOD and the QUAD (Pixel ... her
sister died in a tragic accident) flying next weekend at XPC2007. Still
waiting on FAA AST official notification of the acceptance of the flight
data.

Offline Crispy

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #95 on: 10/24/2007 02:07 pm »
Consider me even more impressed then!

Offline JIS

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #96 on: 10/24/2007 03:05 pm »
Good work.
'Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill' - Old Greek experience

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #97 on: 10/24/2007 03:08 pm »
I didn't even know they were planning to use the Mod. Extremely impressed. And it looks like they'll even have competition this time around. Wish I could have made it.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

Offline JesseD

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #98 on: 10/24/2007 05:29 pm »
I actually don't think that there will be much competition. Here's what Paul Breed of Unreasonable Rocket posted on his blog site:

Quote
Acuity:
Very Secret I know almost nothign about their progress. They had an unflown vehicle at the 2006 XPC, they could be the dark horse. They have an interesting control scheme that always made me wonder.

Armadillo:
As ready as anyone could be, the "Gold Standard"

Bon Nova:
They have posted a couple of very quick Rocket Motor videos, the longest being several seconds. We posted our 106 Second firing in April and we did not make it. They have posted no vehicle hardware pictures.

Masten:
They just announced on their blog they are out for 2007.

Micro space:
Failed to attend the required team meeting in Aug.

Paragon Labs:
They have a very credible vehicle, well constructed and professional Another team that is somewhat secretive and an unknown. They posted finished airframe and rocket firing pictures in Aug. They were planning to have throttling via movable pintile in the all aluminum motor, while technically very cool, not easy to do and Armadillo was never able to make an all aluminum motor last without melting.

Speed Up:
Announced that they will not make 2007.

Unreasonable Rocket:
Announced we will not make it in 2007.

Team X :
Pulled out before the Last team summit.

And in another place:
Quote

Acuity:
Acuity was almost ready for last years XPC. They had their regulatory afairs in order and were building real hardware at least 18 months ago. Acuity has a control scheme that looks a little bit too cute for my taste. They are using short aquat tanks that will slosh on a vehicle with VERY limited control authority. There control experience is in winged UAV's where you can use
a self righting gyro bias just like you do on an aircraft while flying on instruments. If you use the rate of turn and compass to fly straight then you can use the vertical earth gravity vector to zero out your bank gyro drift. If you hold a constant altitude then you can use the gravity vector to zero out your pitch gyro. This is done automagically by the low to medium cost gyro systems for UAV's, and by all aircraft horizon gyros. This does not work on a free flying hovering rocket. I believe that these two issues will conspire to cause them problems
in their free flights.

I would be absolutely stunned if they made it to the XPC.



Paragon Labs:
Paragon Labs built a Pixel/Texel clone. The finish quality of what they fabricated was on par or better than what AA has done. They have done significant quality work in the electronics and control space. I believe that there two primary issues will be the motor and insurance/regulatory compliance.
The motor is an all aluminum Regen, it uses a mechanical pintile for throttling. They have issues a single photo of the motor running, but no video. I think they will have problems cooling the all aluminum motor and the moveable pintle is technically cool, but practically hard to make work. One of my biggest issues has been holding the tolerance of the pintiles in my motors after accounting for heating stress hardening and hydraulic stretch. They need to keep these tolerances on moving sealed parts. I would say they are probably the best machinists of all the LLC groups, but its still hard.

Flying at Holloman means a really high maximum probable Loss as there are nearby expensive
structures and getting insurance for a vehicle that has not had much flight time on it will be expensive. Given the lack of public flight test for the Paragon vehicle, I would not be surprised if the Insurance quote for team Paragon exceeded the amount of their entire stated development budget.

Paragon labs only has one vehicle, so even if they make it to the 2007 show there will still be some prize money for 2008.


Lastly, the FAA lists their granted flight permits for commercial space transportation. So far, they only have listed Armadillo's two launches.

Offline bad_astra

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Re: Armadillo Aerospace - New Video Update
« Reply #99 on: 10/24/2007 07:22 pm »
Acuity is supposedly going to compete.
"Contact Light" -Buzz Aldrin

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