Author Topic: CEV Space suits.  (Read 9758 times)

Offline carmelo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
CEV Space suits.
« on: 11/02/2005 04:29 PM »
For CEV an only type of suit for launch-reentry and EVA (white ,Apollo style) ,or four orange escape suits ,and four white lunar EVA suits in landing module ? eight suits  are not too many? (and after return from the surface are not silly to abandon four EVA suits in the ascent stage)?

Offline darkenfast

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 807
  • Liked: 465
  • Likes Given: 1113
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #1 on: 11/02/2005 05:44 PM »
This is a good question.  The current Shuttle/EVA suits are intended for micro-gravity EVA's, and in any event, could not be worn during any high-g manuevers.   For flights to the ISS, an off-the-shelf "launch and entry" suit such as is worn by the shuttle crews now would suffice.  It is a variant of the suit worn by U-2 pilots, and would not need the parachute/oxygen/liferaft kit on the back.   For lunar missions, I would speculate that the type of suit worn by the last Apollo missions should be looked at.  I recently read a book by the curator of the Smithsonian's collection of spacesuits, and the chapter on Apollo was fascinating.   I suppose a combo of the "launch and entry" suit and a hard suit stored on the lander would work, but that would mean one mission only.  I'm not sure if an Apollo suit could stand multiple missions.
The big question that will drive all this is what pressure and mixture will the CEV/Lander operate at?

Offline Dogsbd

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 203
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #2 on: 11/02/2005 07:00 PM »
Quote
darkenfast - 2/11/2005  1:44 PM
I recently read a book by the curator of the Smithsonian's collection of spacesuits, and the chapter on Apollo was fascinating.  

I seen the spacesuit curator on TV a short while back, can't remember the program. The interesting part was when she showed Buzz Aldrin his suit, which he had not seen since 1969. He was enthusiastic about seeing it, but I was wishing it was Gene Cernan because he seems more philoscophical about things like that and I would have loved to seen and heard his reaction to "meeting" his lunar suit after so many years.


Offline Colby

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 183
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #3 on: 11/02/2005 07:57 PM »
Don't space suits cost upward of millions of dollars each?  It would be a shame not to be able to resuse them.
Colby

Offline kraisee

  • Expert
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10481
  • Liked: 408
  • Likes Given: 19
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #4 on: 11/02/2005 08:29 PM »
Weren't all the Apollo suits custom made for each astronaut?   To ensure a comfortable fit?

That would probably mean they'd be single-mission items, with the proviso that if an astronaut returned to the moon, his/her suit could probably be refurbished for the next mission.

Ross.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth -- the rest of us will go to the stars"
-Robert A. Heinlein

Offline carmelo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #5 on: 11/02/2005 09:09 PM »
But for launch and reentry astronauts will dress the same suits to wear on the moon,in Apollo style? The presence of the escape tower does not  necessary the orange colored pressure suit.

Offline darkenfast

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 807
  • Liked: 465
  • Likes Given: 1113
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #6 on: 11/03/2005 02:26 AM »
Carmelo, the type of suit depends on the mission.  Technically, no suit need be worn for the launch, as the escape sytem would seem to make it redundant.  And on Apollo, the astronauts did not wear suits for re-entry, as it was felt that the integrity of the hull had been well established by that point.  However, after Challenger (where the pressure hull was breached but more or less intact), the Soyuz mission where a depressurization just before re-entry killed three cosmonauts), and Apollo ASTP (where fumes entered the cabin just before landing, causing some serious respiratory problems), all point to having some sort of suit on during the more active phases of the flight.  The Apollo suit was the best (and last) of the multi-purpose suits that could serve both during launches and EVA's.  
The more I've read about the suits, the more I appreciate just how hard they are to make work.  However, there is a misconception regarding the price.  Most of the money was on development, but when that was done, the suits themselves were fairly cheap by spaceflight standards.
Have I helped answer your question or have I mis-understood?  :)

Offline CuddlyRocket

RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #7 on: 11/08/2005 09:51 AM »
Quote
darkenfast - 2/11/2005  6:44 PM

For lunar missions, I would speculate that the type of suit worn by the last Apollo missions should be looked at.  ....  I'm not sure if an Apollo suit could stand multiple missions.
I think they'd be looking at a re-design, as the suits would ultimately need to be used for much longer missions on the lunar surface, and the lunar dust badly damaged the Apollo suits even in the short time they were used for.

Offline Avron

  • Canadian Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4924
  • Liked: 150
  • Likes Given: 152
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #8 on: 11/09/2005 03:38 AM »
Quote
CuddlyRocket - 8/11/2005  5:51 AM

Quote
darkenfast - 2/11/2005  6:44 PM

For lunar missions, I would speculate that the type of suit worn by the last Apollo missions should be looked at.  ....  I'm not sure if an Apollo suit could stand multiple missions.
I think they'd be looking at a re-design, as the suits would ultimately need to be used for much longer missions on the lunar surface, and the lunar dust badly damaged the Apollo suits even in the short time they were used for.


Good point.


They must do, the requirements are so different, and the expectations are much higher from a public point of view... zero risk.

Offline realtime

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 13
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #9 on: 11/09/2005 04:09 AM »
I love astronautix.com!

http://www.astronautix.com/craftfam/spasuits.htm

NASA is refining the partial hard-torso Mark III with an eye toward Lunar and Mars surface ops.

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/nasrkiii.htm

Another good article, more recent than the others:

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/mars-base-05l.html


Offline tom nackid

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 167
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #10 on: 11/11/2005 05:49 PM »
I always liked the Gemini suits with the soft, inflatable helmets. After the most dangerous part of the launch is over just unzip them and fold them back like a parka hood. They are always handy in case of an emergency...imagine how stupid  you would feel if you asphyxiated because you forgot where you put your hard shell helmet!

I'm not completely sure why we still have hard spacesuit helmets. I can see the utility of the older style, form-fitting helmet that was used on Mercury and early Gemini flights--they were just airtight versions of a pilots crash helmet. But by the time you get to the Apollo "bubble" style helmet it would seem that the hard shell offers little protection since your head just bounces around inside the helmet like a dried pea in a pod! Did the Gemini Astronauts wear traditional crash helmets inside their inflatables during launch and reentry?

Oh, i just thought of another advantage of a soft helmet. for long duration EVAs you could have a version with a kind of "glove box" mounted on the side of the helmet (actually "hood" is probably a better term) so you can scratch your nose! Although unless you are actually using it the internal pressure would make it pop outward. That would be a pretty creepy scene. Astronauts running around the moon or Mars with hands sticking out of their heads! I guess just the image of that on TV alone will keep NASA from trying this!

Offline MKremer

  • Elite Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3907
  • Liked: 13
  • Likes Given: 482
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #11 on: 11/11/2005 07:44 PM »
I like the Russian Sokol pressure suits, with the fold-back helmet like you described above. I don't see a need for a 'hard' EVA style suit to use as a flight suit for all crewmembers.

I think the U.S. EVA suits have had a small piece of cloth or felt in the front of the helmet as a nose-scratcher for some years now (though it's rarely ever mentioned).

Offline realtime

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 574
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 13
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #12 on: 11/12/2005 05:07 AM »
Quote
Astronauts running around the moon or Mars with hands sticking out of their heads! I guess just the image of that on TV alone will keep NASA from trying this!
Had to laugh at that!  Tres Ren and Stimpy, sir...


Offline carmelo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #13 on: 11/12/2005 02:30 PM »
The new CEV suit.                                                                         http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/750/657rq.jpg

Offline Dobbins

  • Propellerhead
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 688
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
RE: CEV Space suits.
« Reply #14 on: 11/17/2005 03:09 AM »
One thing that will need to be done on the Lunar suits is have a means of identification. Apollo astronauts didn't have to worry about this, "I'm me, that must be the other guy". However there were problems with identifying who was who in the photographs from Apollo 11 and 12. The later missions went to orange stripes on the mission commander's suit so they could tell who was who. This problem will be even worse with a 4 man crew on the Lunar surface, the astronauts as well as the folks back at NASA are going to need some system to tell who is who on the Moon. Color coded stripes or even the entire suits will be needed on the Lunar surface.

John B. Dobbins

Tags: