Author Topic: LIVE: SpaceX - Falcon I (Mk.II) NET March 20 (Attempt 2) (Read 265150 times)

yinzer · « **Reply #440 on:** 03/21/2007 03:26 am »

I don't think it accelerated nearly long enough for it to make it to South America.

harryw · « **Reply #441 on:** 03/21/2007 03:35 am »

Danderman,

I don't think so, they were only 5 minutes into the shot (not far enough downrange) and as you get to signal fade you start to see RF degradation (static) build up in the picture. You can also still see the island I believe in the picture up to the last.

marsavian · « **Reply #442 on:** 03/21/2007 03:36 am »

Quote

braddock - 20/3/2007 10:58 PM

Quote
marsavian - 20/3/2007 11:25 PM
He's too cavalier and I doubt anyone will agree to having their satellite go up until he has demonstrated a mission success as there are too many question marks now about the second stage.

Let me just say that if you heard Elon's voice on the conference call just now, you could never mistake him for "cavalier". In fact, the first reporter asked in effect if he was as shaken as he sounded. He said quite humbly that he tended to dwell excessively on the negative, and needs people to remind him of the positive. He recalled with some feeling that it has been a very stressful few days for him.

He also dwells excessively on the positive, perhaps a little dampening balance is in order here. Eventually he wants to put people in orbit and one would hope he wouldn't allow a 90% success test to be the immediate precursor for that.

Chris Bergin · « **Reply #443 on:** 03/21/2007 03:37 am »

Ok people. I'm officially pooped, so I'm outta here seen as there's no further updates from SpaceX.

Thanks again to everyone who watched/followed/joined in.

Apologies about the site getting a bit sluggish at times (very sluggish for a few minutes). Simply a case of us getting absolutely hammered (even with our cool new server). Some of it will be to do with the forum software (although it makes it more interactive etc.), but the webmasters will sort it as they always do.

The only other time we got sluggish was the last Shuttle launch and that was the old server, so we should be close to accomodating this very big audience we're getting now with extra buffer room.

harryw · « **Reply #444 on:** 03/21/2007 03:40 am »

Chris,

Thanks for hanging in there with this so late tonight (this morning...). I was looking at the vid you posted and the youtube vid, and noticed the youtube vid goes 13 seconds longer (5:01 vs. 5:14). That 13 seconds shows the 2nd stage with the nozzle banging hard and just about pointed opposite the direction of flight. Not sure why the difference, but thought you'd like to know.

Avron · « **Reply #445 on:** 03/21/2007 03:41 am »

Quote

Nick L. - 20/3/2007 12:15 AM

Quote
ratman - 20/3/2007 12:07 AM

I just wonder - why everyone (including Chris) is talking about problem with "roll control" ? The vehicle had no roll - it was circular pitch/yaw motion...

I believe that in addition to the pitch/yaw precession, later on in the second stage operation you could see the stage was beginning to roll heavily just before the video cut. Perhaps the precession wouldn't have caused a problem, whereas the rolling would have.

I agree... pitch/yaw motion... roll I think was due to engine shutdown..

Great work all around.. A wonderfull day - that turn around was unexpected.. abort at T0 and then launch in less than 2 hours..

Many thanks to Spacex for including us all in the adventure..

To Elon and the Gang at Spacex - mooi shot!

If only I could purchase some shares...

Marcus · « **Reply #446 on:** 03/21/2007 03:51 am »

Ker-plop.

I don't see any way this could be construed as a success. Just like the Delta IV heavy. "A miss is as good as a mile", as they say.

Let's hope that the third time is a charm.

Go SpaceX. Better luck next time.

ratman · « **Reply #447 on:** 03/21/2007 03:53 am »

Also - what was that ring that broke off the Kestrel nozzle at 3:13 ? It looked like it has a crack from the 1st stage impact. If so - kudos to the nozzle: it held integrity without it.

Delta Manager · « **Reply #448 on:** 03/21/2007 03:57 am »

Well I won't follow what some of the LM people have been, with some snide remarks.

Well done SpaceX. Didn't think you'd manage that, but you did.

rsnellenberger · « **Reply #449 on:** 03/21/2007 03:58 am »

Quote

rumble - 20/3/2007 10:22 PM Watch the video at high speed (windows media player 11 allows up to 16x playback speed). The recontact after stage sep: It looks almost as if the 2nd stage had a forced pitch... almost as if 3 of 4 ullage thrusters fired (not sure if falcon has these). The second stage turned and bumped the 1st stage with the engine bell. After the contact, the 2nd stage started again to accelerate in the same direction. Had the kestrel not started when it did, the 2nd stage may have started an end-over-end roll.

I haven't seen anything about the technique they're using to separate the stages, but it almost looks as though they didn't get a complete separation on the left side (as you look at the video) -- wondering if something didn't get cut cleanly. That would explain the sharp yaw at separation, causing the contact *as well* as the exaggerated yaw after the engine bell gets clear of the 1st stage.

yinzer · « **Reply #450 on:** 03/21/2007 04:00 am »

Quote

ratman - 20/3/2007 9:53 PM

Also - what was that ring that broke off the Kestrel nozzle at 3:13 ? It looked like it has a crack from the 1st stage impact. If so - kudos to the nozzle: it held integrity without it.

Upthread someone mentioned Elon said that was a titanium stiffener ring that's bonded into the nozzle (presumably to support first stage flight and probably horizontal gravity loads, and that debonds and flies out once you start the engine. If so, it might have been expected.

rsnellenberger · « **Reply #451 on:** 03/21/2007 04:01 am »

Quote

ratman - 20/3/2007 11:53 PM Also - what was that ring that broke off the Kestrel nozzle at 3:13 ? It looked like it has a crack from the 1st stage impact. If so - kudos to the nozzle: it held integrity without it.

I noticed that too, but I think that was the temporary support that Musk was talking about in the press conference. If you look carefully at separation, you can see the guy wire that runs from the base of the stage to the ring (in the top left of the image).

Avron · « **Reply #452 on:** 03/21/2007 04:02 am »

Quote

ratman - 21/3/2007 12:53 AM

Also - what was that ring that broke off the Kestrel nozzle at 3:13 ? It looked like it has a crack from the 1st stage impact. If so - kudos to the nozzle: it held integrity without it.

Designed that way.. If you look back in the thread it was covered... had something to do with providing support for launch... but its late in the day...

David AF · « **Reply #453 on:** 03/21/2007 04:02 am »

Many congrats SpaceX.

Andy USA · « **Reply #454 on:** 03/21/2007 04:04 am »

Quote

Delta Manager - 20/3/2007 11:57 PM

Well I won't follow what some of the LM people have been, with some snide remarks.

Well done SpaceX. Didn't think you'd manage that, but you did.

Well done on you, as we know this place is full of NASA etc people and there's very few of the ones we recognize by forum name posting here I've noticed! :bleh:

ratman · « **Reply #455 on:** 03/21/2007 04:05 am »

Quote

yinzer - 21/3/2007 1:00 AM
Upthread someone mentioned Elon said that was a titanium stiffener ring that's bonded into the nozzle

Ah. Indeed. :cool:

mikegi · « **Reply #456 on:** 03/21/2007 04:14 am »

Not a rocket scientist ... but after watching the separation part of the free video a couple of times I noticed an interesting thing. It looks like the Falcon tipped/curved significantly to the left shortly before the separation. Starting at 2:25-2:30, look in the darker area in the center of the screen. That appears to be the Earth showing through. You can see features moving to the left, especially the vertical white shoreline. At 2:30 it starts to appear on the right side then makes its way to the center at separation. After the violent bump, the white shoreline is in the upper left behind the dropped stage.

edkyle99 · « **Reply #457 on:** 03/21/2007 04:24 am »

Quote

Marcus - 20/3/2007 11:51 PM

Ker-plop.

I don't see any way this could be construed as a success. Just like the Delta IV heavy. "A miss is as good as a mile", as they say.

On this one, there is no question about it. Falcon 1 failed and didn't make orbit. It might not even have achieved half of the velocity required to make orbit.

As it now stands, Falcon 1 is sporting the world's worst launch record among active vehicles.

The Pacific Ocean seems to be eating rockets this year.

- Ed Kyle

hektor · « **Reply #458 on:** 03/21/2007 04:38 am »

Any information about the fate of the first stage ? was it retrieved ?

JonSBerndt · « **Reply #459 on:** 03/21/2007 05:35 am »

Quote

rumble - 20/3/2007 10:22 PM
The recontact after stage sep: It looks almost as if the 2nd stage had a forced pitch... almost as if 3 of 4 ullage thrusters fired (not sure if falcon has these). The second stage turned and bumped the 1st stage with the engine bell. After the contact, the 2nd stage started again to accelerate in the same direction. Had the kestrel not started when it did, the 2nd stage may have started an end-over-end roll.

Yes, that's why I asked earlier about ullage motors and qbar. The two things that could cause such motion are aerodynamic moments or propulsive effects.

Jon