LIVE: SpaceX - Falcon I (Mk.II) NET March 20 (Attempt 2)

[landofgrey]

Eagerly awaiting more word from SpaceX. I agree there seems to be a bit much derision here. Keep in mind the historical track record of developing new rockets.

This is STILL rocket science, not paper designs that always fly perfectly in Powerpoint presentations. Delta 3 failed completely twice. Sea Launch had problems early on, Delta IV Heavy too. How many Atlas-Centaurs failed, 5?, before the first successful flight. Whether or not it was 40 years ago doesn't change the fact that it's hard work, and always will be. Anyone who counts on a successful launch of a brand new rocket the first few launches would be making an ill-advised bet, unless they are willing to accept the high likelihood of failure. People think it's become easier to make rockets since the early days. It hasn't. Those "New Space" companies out there floating paper designs and overly optimistic plans would do themselves a lot of good to take SpaceX's efforts as a lesson.

[Jeff Bingham]

harryw - 20/3/2007  10:13 PM

I have now sat through hours and hours to watch 2 launches in which SpaceX dropped the video the second things went bad. Won't make that mistake anymore...

As Nathan said, it appears they lost the signal; maybe you can request they cut to a feed from the control room so we can watch them working to assess the situation? Not sure what else they might offer. Even if they still had a few seconds of feed from an uncontrollable roll, I'm not sure what value that has to viewers, other than a certain voyeurism I guess we all have a little of. Besides...it's a private company...they don't really HAVE to provide any feed at all if they choose not to...at least until they have to satisfy the needs of their eventual customers.

[Flightstar]

GW_Simulations - 20/3/2007  9:22 PM

Will there be a free version of the video for this launch?

Huge, and impressive quality video on L2. Well worth it with everything else that's on there.

[jimvela]

One thing that I'll be really interested in seeing is what shape the 1st stage is in if it is recovered.    

My money is that the reusability is a pipe dream, but if it turns out to be so then I'll publicly drink a swig of tequila from my shoe.  

If they can recover it and learn from it then today was an even better learning experience.

[Jim]

What is needed for staging, stronger actuators and a delay to damp out MECO

[William Graham]

Flightstar - 21/3/2007 2:24 AM

GW_Simulations - 20/3/2007 9:22 PM Will there be a free version of the video for this launch?

Huge, and impressive quality video on L2. Well worth it with everything else that's on there.

 

Unfortunatly, I don't have that sort of money to spend right now.

[ringshot]

Norm Hartnett - 20/3/2007  8:20 PM

Firstly a well done to SpaceX and all the folks that have worked so hard over the last few years.

Secondly I am appalled at the virulent nature of some of the comments I’ve seen here. What is the affiliation of these people, NASA, LockMart, USA? Whatever it is I have rarely seen such sour grapes. If any of you could half as well with twice the budget we would be a lot further into the VSE.

Truly a great accomplishment that ranks with SpaceShip One and Genesis I in the alt.space endeavors.

Oh come on!  I think there are a lot of enthusiasts and professionals here, and the thing we all do is speculate!

I certainly wish SpaceX the best, but if a failure has occurred (as seems evident), I'm going to comment on it!

Now if people posted "It was a slosh issue, those stupid #*%&#%!!", I'd agree with you; but I don't see that here!

[landofgrey]

The ring falling off the second stage nozzle I think was a stiffener ring, but probably not a factor in the problem today. And what looks like debris on the camera window is actually ice frost coming off the second stage (sorry if I'm mistaken but I've seen this sort of thing before).

[Andrewwski]

First...my apologies for the page and a half of posts I just made on the same thing.  Seems every time I pressed the spacebar it submitted the message.  I tried to delete them all except one.

Now, onto a question.  I wasn't able to be home to watch the launch, but how did things progress during stage sep.?  Did the nudging of the second stage by the first stage (wobble?) cause any problems?  Or were they seemingly unrelated?  What was the amount of time between the events?

[nacnud]

The staging is at T+2:52 and the oscillations aren't redialy apparent until T+4:30. That's a fair time difference

What's great is how much they got on this flight. 1) First stage launch 2) Staging 3) Second stage ignition and burn.

They have a good place to start with what remains. I'm certain the next flight will make it to orbit. If I were an investor, I'd feel very confident that my investment was going to payoff. Elon must taste it. I'm beginning to think Falcon 9 and Dragon have much more reality than ever.

Compared to the long slog with Kistler, the capital used and time to get results is orders of magnitude better/faster/cheaper.

So Kistler guys, you better get your mojo -- fast!

[landofgrey]

jimvela - 20/3/2007  10:24 PM

One thing that I'll be really interested in seeing is what shape the 1st stage is in if it is recovered.    

My money is that the reusability is a pipe dream, but if it turns out to be so then I'll publicly drink a swig of tequila from my shoe.  

Elon has said in the past (now I'm trying to remember a two year-old interview so if I'm incorrect, my apologies to Mr. Musk) that it's more of a situation that if the stage can be reused then it will be, but that it wouldn't be considered a failure if it couldn't be. i.e. "we hope we'll be able to reuse, but if not then we won't."

[Danderman]

Can someone explain how a severe pogo problem would lead to an abrupt cutoff of all telemetry?

[harryw]

LOS of the video RF didn't kill the server. Sorry.

It was turned off, like the last time. I share everyone's wishes for success, but I expect not to have the picture yanked when it doesn't happen. We watch because we love this stuff, and it matters to us.

[landofgrey]

I think my last post before I head out to do some writing is this... Even if  Falcon re-entered, the 1st Delta IV Heavy missed its intended orbit by many more miles. (BTW, that was being lighthearted, not insulting. It's been a long day and we all need a good laugh or bad laugh in the case of my quality of humor).

[Nick L.]

Norm Hartnett - 20/3/2007  10:20 PM

Firstly a well done to SpaceX and all the folks that have worked so hard over the last few years.

Secondly I am appalled at the virulent nature of some of the comments I’ve seen here. What is the affiliation of these people, NASA, LockMart, USA? Whatever it is I have rarely seen such sour grapes. If any of you could do half as well with twice the budget we would be a lot further into the VSE.

Truly a great accomplishment that ranks with SpaceShip One and Genesis I in the alt.space endeavors.

I think some of the reason for some of the reactions seen here is the fact that, over the past few years, Elon has accused NASA and  the "big" companies (Boeing, LM, etc.) of blowing money on bureaucratic excess. Spaceflight is difficult, and costs a lot of money to do right. While there may be some truth to the bureaucracy accusations, much of that money goes toward mission and quality assurance. Many people, including many on this forum, work very, very hard everyday to make spaceflight a reality, and for Elon to come in and basically say, "You're all just sitting around burning cash with your thumbs up your.....I'll show you how to do it right", is frankly a slap in the face for all those who have poured their devotion into spaceflight. So I think much of the reaction is primarily due to the fact that SpaceX and Elon are learning firsthand what the rest of the industry has learned the hard way - that it's not as simple as they thought it would be.

That said, however, despite any failure in second stage flight, getting this far is a monumental achievement on the part of SpaceX. Congratulations to them, and best of luck!  

[JonSBerndt]

Question: What is the arrangement of the ullage motors on Falcon - assuming they have them to settle the fuel prior to second stage ignition? It seems as if there is something forcing a rate on the upper stage prior to ignition.Or, am I imagining things? Any estimates on qbar? Altitude and velocity at staging?

Jon

[Danderman]

JonSBerndt - 20/3/2007  7:36 PM  Question: What is the arrangement of the ullage motors on Falcon - assuming they have them to settle the fuel prior to second stage ignition? It seems as if there is something forcing a rate on the upper stage prior to ignition.Or, am I imagining things? Any estimates on qbar? Altitude and velocity at staging?  Jon

I was not aware that pressure fed engines require ullage motors.

 

[daveglo]

I'll throw my $0.02 in with the other folks offering congratulations to SpaceX.  Take the partial success, and build on it.  So it wasn't perfect.  So what?  It's still a bargain, even if it was sub-orbital.  300KM is nothing to sneeze at.
 
And thanks to Chris and the others for the L2 video, best turnaround time on the web!

[charlieb]

install 3 BSM's on the first stage (120 deg apart) to aid the separation..  EASY fix..