Immersive - 20/3/2007 3:14 PMWanted to mention the level of automation in pad operations pre and during launch is pretty amazing for a civil outfit. As I was watching yesterdays attempt, I saw how the pad "reacted" to the aborts (stongback trusse, helium and kersene vent pumps, etc.).
Immersive - 20/3/2007 3:14 PMWanted to mention the level of automation in pad operations pre and during launch is pretty amazing for a civil outfit. As I was watching yesterdays attempt, I saw how the pad "reacted" to the aborts (stongback trusse, helium and kersene vent pumps, etc.).But I think that the team needs more loops though, interruptions left and right.
aero313 - 20/3/2007 3:15 PMSpeaking of mission failures due to inadequate testing (not to mention taking this thread further off topic), how about the Intelsat VI launch on Commercial Titan III. Martin Marietta had previously launched a Commercial Titan with two satellites. The larger Intelsat VI was a single launch. Unfortunately, Martin sent the payload sep command to the nonexistent upper payload instead of the lower payload (which would have been the correct one). This interface was never tested and the rest is history.
Immersive - 20/3/2007 3:24 PMAfter working with dumb equipment for a while, I just notice and appreciate the level of automation a CIVIL outfit like these guys have. Makes it seem like much more of a living breathing machine.
Immersive - 20/3/2007 3:27 PMUnfortunatly, I dont know the level of automation they're at, but I noticed during the launch attempt yesterday I saw venting start and the trusse start moving into place well before an audible command. Again, I appreciate any automation in the pad processing...process
aero313 - 20/3/2007 1:08 PMSorry, but I disagree. There are lots of issues in flight where hardware latency can impact how software operates. Valve opening or closing, ordnance function, TVC actuation, etc, etc. If their simulations don't account for real hardware function times, there can be problems. This is where real world experience and hardware in the loop testing trumps youth and enthusiasm.
The bold portion is absolutely correct. The actual experience of running through launch ops is what SpaceX is really buying with this attempt. There just isn't a substitute for real world experience and running live.
My own experience coming into the Aerospace business from commercial electronics: I was astounded by many of the "unnecessary" things going on around me. I've had more than one run in with the old grey hairs.
The old guard would complain about things and insist on many,many things being done a certain way. They'd look at and criticize little nits about every imaginable thing, many of which I swore were irrelevant.
Turns out that the grey hairs have almost universally been correct. That wisdom is an essential part of maturing an organization and building trustworthy hardware. You can only get it by going through the motions and learning.
Capturing, sharing, and continuing to apply those lessons learned is an important part of making better hardware.
Jim - 20/3/2007 3:22 PMQuoteaero313 - 20/3/2007 3:15 PMSpeaking of mission failures due to inadequate testing (not to mention taking this thread further off topic), how about the Intelsat VI launch on Commercial Titan III. Martin Marietta had previously launched a Commercial Titan with two satellites. The larger Intelsat VI was a single launch. Unfortunately, Martin sent the payload sep command to the nonexistent upper payload instead of the lower payload (which would have been the correct one). This interface was never tested and the rest is history.The interface was tested and then the cable coiled and stowed.
aero313 - 20/3/2007 2:41 PMDue to the encapsulated cargo element design, Martin never ran an end-to-end test from the pyro driver to the squib connector on the payload adapter. They tested the ordnance command to the ECE interface connector and they tested continuity of the harness on the ECE, but never ran the end-to-end test.My payload (Transfer Orbit Stage with Mars Observer) was - thankfully - on the NEXT Commercial Titan...
aero313 - 20/3/2007 2:41 PMMy payload (Transfer Orbit Stage with Mars Observer) was - thankfully - on the NEXT Commercial Titan...
simonbp - 20/3/2007 7:58 PMTo get back on topic, how's the forecast shaping up?Simon
jimvela - 20/3/2007 3:29 PMTurns out that the grey hairs have almost universally been correct. That wisdom is an essential part of maturing an organization and building trustworthy hardware. You can only get it by going through the motions and learning. Capturing, sharing, and continuing to apply those lessons learned is an important part of making better hardware.
simonbp - 20/3/2007 3:58 PMQuoteaero313 - 20/3/2007 2:41 PMMy payload (Transfer Orbit Stage with Mars Observer) was - thankfully - on the NEXT Commercial Titan...Not to hit a touchy subject, but it might have been better if it hadn't been... Simon
kevin-rf - 20/3/2007 3:58 PMLike Hubble? Like Genesis?Need I go on...
aero313 - 20/3/2007 3:30 PMQuotekevin-rf - 20/3/2007 3:58 PMLike Hubble? Like Genesis?Need I go on...Don't forget Mars Polar Impactor... er, Lander, Mars Climatology Orbiter...By the way, what's the common denominator on all of these? (apologies to LockMart employees on this forum...)
