Author Topic: China's space program  (Read 415839 times)

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #840 on: 10/24/2018 06:17 am »
The YF-100 is a kerolox engine with 1.2 MN sea level thrust and sea level Isp of 300 s and vacuum of 335 s. Seven engines would give 8.4 MN, compared to Falcon 9 with 7.6 MN. I like this, but disappointed to not see any legs. Maybe we'll see them in a future version.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Lars-J

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #841 on: 11/02/2018 02:28 am »
https://twitter.com/inbarspace/status/1058088312580251648

(image attached below)

That CZ-9 is never going to fly... certainly not in that form. Mark my words.

The CZ-9 was always an SLS copy. But now they are moving away from solids. But 4 huge liquid boosters? Nah, I don't think it will fly that way. It's only a question of time before a CZ-9 transforms into a monolithic large reusable first stage, based on NG and BFR instead of SLS.

They lag behind, but they aren't dumb. That's not a knock on the Chinese, most LV manufacturers out there are stuck in their ways.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2018 04:12 am by Lars-J »

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #842 on: 11/02/2018 05:50 am »
That CZ-9 is never going to fly... certainly not in that form. Mark my words.

That's the configuration that CZ-9 has been for the last few years. I don't see any evidence yet that China will change to a reusable configuration. Considering the snail pace of their previous crewed launches, they may only fly it very infrequently (probably less than SLS), so a reusable vehicle, which they have no experience yet, may not make sense to them.

However, I think a reusable vehicle with 30 t of payload into LEO and using in-orbit propellant transfer would be much more cost effective. Basically, have the one vehicle replace this entire family.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2018 05:57 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #843 on: 11/02/2018 07:03 am »
What is the CZ-7A?   The CZ-7 which has flown with a promised LOX/LH stage added?
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline Comet

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #844 on: 11/02/2018 12:19 pm »
China's next generation manned spacecraft on the next generation (new version of CZ-7 perhaps?) launcher:

Online Lars-J

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #845 on: 11/02/2018 03:20 pm »
China's next generation manned spacecraft on the next generation (new version of CZ-7 perhaps?) launcher:

No, this is not the CZ-7, it uses a new 7-engine core. (like NG/F9) Think of this vehicle as basically the Chinese version of FH. At this time there does not appear to be an official CZ designation attached to this rocket, as far as I know.

Here is a clearer picture - and also a slide from a presentation that shows the internal layout and number of engines:
« Last Edit: 11/02/2018 03:29 pm by Lars-J »

Offline SciNews

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #846 on: 11/06/2018 04:01 pm »
Reuters: Portugal to build satellite launch pad, lab with China
Quote
Portugal plans to build an international launch pad for small satellites in the Azores and has agreed with China to set up a joint research center to make satellites on the mainland, its science and technology minister said on Tuesday.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-portugal-websummit-space/portugal-to-build-satellite-launch-pad-lab-with-china-idUSKCN1NB25K

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #847 on: 11/07/2018 05:56 am »
Some screen grabs of the various rockets.
« Last Edit: 11/07/2018 05:57 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Prettz

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #848 on: 11/07/2018 01:40 pm »
What in the world is CZ-6A? What would that be for?

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #849 on: 11/07/2018 08:37 pm »
CZ-6 Family Replaces CZ-3 family with 0, 2 and 4 booster versions. With CZ-6X also on the table the CZ-6 Family is beginning to change. Originally there was CZ-6, 6A, 6B, and 6C on paper but the whole reusability push is changing the whole family via CZ-6X as the baseline core stsge.

Offline SciNews

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #850 on: 11/08/2018 08:48 am »
Long March-9, Long March-8 and Smart Dragon

Smart Dragon No.1 or Lightning Dragon No.1 is the first rocket in the Lightning Dragon series, developed by ChinaRocket under the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #851 on: 11/08/2018 09:22 am »
Have the Chinese clarified whether the strap-on boosters for the CZ-9 will use solid propellants or LOX/kerosene?   The last that I heard this had still to be decided upon.
I've always been crazy but it's kept me from going insane - WJ.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: China's space program
« Reply #852 on: 11/08/2018 02:11 pm »


That CZ-9 is never going to fly... certainly not in that form. Mark my words.


However, I think a reusable vehicle with 30 t of payload into LEO and using in-orbit propellant transfer would be much more cost effective. Basically, have the one vehicle replace this entire family.

Its path Blue is following with NG. At 30t with in orbit refuelling big enough to do lunar missions while not to big for most of existing payloads.




Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #853 on: 11/08/2018 05:51 pm »
Have the Chinese clarified whether the strap-on boosters for the CZ-9 will use solid propellants or LOX/kerosene?   The last that I heard this had still to be decided upon.
well CZ-9 display showed boosters with 4 chambers present.

Offline Asteroza

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #854 on: 11/09/2018 05:51 am »
Have the Chinese clarified whether the strap-on boosters for the CZ-9 will use solid propellants or LOX/kerosene?   The last that I heard this had still to be decided upon.
well CZ-9 display showed boosters with 4 chambers present.

Which probably implies liquids, but multinozzle solids do exist (for height constrained military use, which would indicate military heritage legacy design). But for civil use the multinozzle penalty makes no sense...

Offline Kryten

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #855 on: 11/09/2018 08:29 am »
http://engine.space/press/pressnews/2428/
(via google translate)
Quote
General Director of NPO Energomash JSC Igor Arbuzov and President of the Sixth Academy of the Chinese Space Corporation of Science and Technology Liu Zhizhan (PRC) signed a protocol following the consultation meeting, which determines the order of work between the two companies in the development and production of LRE in the approved areas of cooperation.

The signing of the protocol took place within the framework of the International Aviation and Space Salon Air Show China 2018 (Zhuhai, China). The areas of cooperation in the field of rocket engines were defined by the minutes of the meetings of the Russian-Chinese Project Commission for cooperation in launch vehicles and rocket engines held in 2018 and approved by the protocol of the 19th meeting of the Subcommittee for Cooperation in the Field of Space Heads of Government September 28, 2018 in Beijing.

According to the signed protocol, cooperation in the field of rocket engines can be carried out along the lines of development of LREs on oxygen-kerosene, oxygen-hydrogen and oxygen-methane fuel components.

By the end of 2018, the Chinese side will send technical requirements for the scope of work to NPO Energomash, and in January 2019, the parties will hold final consultations to form the final version of the technical requirements. The next step on the part of NPO Energomash JSC will be the preparation and submission of a package of documents to the State Corporation Roscosmos for issuing an order of the Government of the Russian Federation on the possibility of cooperation in these areas.

“For us, this is a historic moment,” said Igor Arbuzov, General Director of NPO Energomash. - Negotiations with the Chinese side have been going on for several years. But until the end of 2017, we were limited in our negotiation process, because the Agreement between the Governments of Russia and China “On measures for the protection of technologies in connection with cooperation in the field of research and use of outer space for peaceful purposes and in the creation and operation of launch vehicles and ground-based space infrastructure. ” Starting from 2018, discussions began to be substantive in nature and today's protocol is the transition of our relations to a practical plane. ” - added Igor Arbuzov

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #856 on: 11/09/2018 04:51 pm »
http://engine.space/press/pressnews/2428/
(via google translate)
Quote
General Director of NPO Energomash JSC Igor Arbuzov and President of the Sixth Academy of the Chinese Space Corporation of Science and Technology Liu Zhizhan (PRC) signed a protocol following the consultation meeting, which determines the order of work between the two companies in the development and production of LRE in the approved areas of cooperation.

The signing of the protocol took place within the framework of the International Aviation and Space Salon Air Show China 2018 (Zhuhai, China). The areas of cooperation in the field of rocket engines were defined by the minutes of the meetings of the Russian-Chinese Project Commission for cooperation in launch vehicles and rocket engines held in 2018 and approved by the protocol of the 19th meeting of the Subcommittee for Cooperation in the Field of Space Heads of Government September 28, 2018 in Beijing.

According to the signed protocol, cooperation in the field of rocket engines can be carried out along the lines of development of LREs on oxygen-kerosene, oxygen-hydrogen and oxygen-methane fuel components.

By the end of 2018, the Chinese side will send technical requirements for the scope of work to NPO Energomash, and in January 2019, the parties will hold final consultations to form the final version of the technical requirements. The next step on the part of NPO Energomash JSC will be the preparation and submission of a package of documents to the State Corporation Roscosmos for issuing an order of the Government of the Russian Federation on the possibility of cooperation in these areas.

“For us, this is a historic moment,” said Igor Arbuzov, General Director of NPO Energomash. - Negotiations with the Chinese side have been going on for several years. But until the end of 2017, we were limited in our negotiation process, because the Agreement between the Governments of Russia and China “On measures for the protection of technologies in connection with cooperation in the field of research and use of outer space for peaceful purposes and in the creation and operation of launch vehicles and ground-based space infrastructure. ” Starting from 2018, discussions began to be substantive in nature and today's protocol is the transition of our relations to a practical plane. ” - added Igor Arbuzov
Engine Families of RD-171MV, RD-191M (RD-193, RD-195) and RD-0120 come to mind for various launchers in development however they will have chinese YF designations.

Offline SciNews

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #857 on: 11/13/2018 04:10 pm »
Institute of Atmospheric Physics, Chinese Academy Of Sciences: Chinese satellites provide advanced solutions to modeling small particles in the atmosphere
Quote
The assimilation of aerosol optical depth (AOD) observational data from the Chinese satellite Fengyun-3A (FY-3A) can significantly improve the ability to model aerosol mass, according to Prof. Jinzhong MIN, Vice President at Nanjing University of Information Science and Technology.
http://159.226.119.58/aas/EN/news/news171.shtml
Research published in Advances in Atmospheric Sciences http://dx.doi.org/10.1007/s00376-018-8075-9
Edit:
China will launch 9 Fengyun satellites in the next 7 years
Quote
As of now, China has successfully launched 17 Fengyun Satellites, 8 of which are in stable operation in the orbit, will launch 9 Fengyun satellites by 2025.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/politics/2018-11/12/c_1123701108.htm
« Last Edit: 11/13/2018 04:23 pm by SciNews »

Offline tonya

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #858 on: 11/14/2018 04:23 am »
The YF-100 is a kerolox engine with 1.2 MN sea level thrust and sea level Isp of 300 s and vacuum of 335 s. Seven engines would give 8.4 MN, compared to Falcon 9 with 7.6 MN. I like this, but disappointed to not see any legs. Maybe we'll see them in a future version.

Until landing the legs on New Glenn aren't visible either, they're flush to the body and fold out. I don't think there are any concealed legs already suggested in the model, but the very visible external SpaceX legs may be a one off.

And of course also see the many alternative ideas on recovery a rocket, although I think we can dismiss helicopters and skyhooks straight away for something that big.
« Last Edit: 11/14/2018 04:27 am by tonya »

Offline SciNews

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Re: China's space program
« Reply #859 on: 11/29/2018 02:10 pm »
LinkSure No.1 -"China's first private WiFi satellite meets the public"

"China's first private WiFi satellite met the public in Shanghai on Tuesday. LinkSure No.1, independently developed by LinkSure Network, a Shanghai-based mobile internet company, will be launched into space with China’s Long March rocket in 2019. The company also launched its satellite network program which aims to provide free satellite network around the globe by 2026."

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