Author Topic: Iran launches home-made space missile  (Read 14775 times)

Offline Skyrocket

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Offline Terry Rocket

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Offline braddock

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #3 on: 02/25/2007 11:17 am »
So, was this a "suborbital" satellite, or did it actually make it up there?

Or are clever Iranian public affairs folks mixing confusing statements about both the Iranian launch announcement and the Russian launch of the Iranian satellite to confuse the international press?

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #4 on: 02/25/2007 11:36 am »
Quote
braddock - 25/2/2007  12:17 PM

So, was this a "suborbital" satellite, or did it actually make it up there?

Or are clever Iranian public affairs folks mixing confusing statements about both the Iranian launch announcement and the Russian launch of the Iranian satellite to confuse the international press?

BBC News 24 are all over this today, they note it's a new domestic launch (not the Russian one), that took place, apparently undetected (how?) and it made it to orbit (how?!) - is there enough power in this vehicle...maybe the payload was tiny?

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #5 on: 02/25/2007 11:52 am »
'Into space', which is what the Iranians are apparently claiming, is different to 'into orbit'. Then again, putting something into orbit is not that difficult. It's merely a question of whether you want to spend the money on it.

If they have done it, I doubt it was undetected. But that doesn't mean that anyone who did detect it would want to confirm it immediately.

Offline sammie

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #6 on: 02/25/2007 11:53 am »
Quote
The Shahab-3 medium-range ballistic missile is a fully Iranian built single stage vehicle

It's good to see that some-one developed a SSTO vehicle at last. On a more serious note, as long as they are using uprated Scud missles, Im not loosing any sleep over it. Space tracking should determine whether there is an actual payload in orbit, otherwise this launch will be on the same page of the North Korean satellite launched a couple of years ago.
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Online Chris Bergin

Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #7 on: 02/25/2007 12:35 pm »
Quote
braddock - 25/2/2007  12:17 PM


Or are clever Iranian public affairs folks

So long as they've not hired this fella ;)

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #8 on: 02/25/2007 12:41 pm »
Apparently there's nothing traceable on orbit.

We'll stick with reporting Iranian TV's claim for now.

Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #9 on: 02/25/2007 12:58 pm »
Define space... Scud's make it into "space" then come back down. I read it as they have carried out a sounding rocket test instead of the usual missile test. That or someone at the news outlet mis understood something when asking about a missile test. You know, missile XYZ reaches X km up which is the edge of space.
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Offline braddock

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #10 on: 02/25/2007 02:58 pm »
Some interesting analysis in an article in Defense Tech last month:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003219.html

"But if the Globalsecurity.org specs are right, the Iranian missile's delta-v is only about half of the 9-10 kilometers/second needed to get into low-earth orbit. "Unless the Iranians have done something amazing to mod up the power of the Shahab-3, which I haven't seen any reliable evidence of, that theoretical satellite is going nowhere," Mr. RE says."

Offline jmjawors

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #11 on: 02/25/2007 04:05 pm »
Just reported on CNN (TV) that the rocket was, in fact, suborbital and that it returned to Earth via parachute.  I believe they credited that to another Iranian official, but I'll admit that it was a little vague since it was just a 20 second headline.
.:: Matt ::.

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #12 on: 02/25/2007 04:19 pm »
Quote
jmjawors - 25/2/2007  11:05 AM

Just reported on CNN (TV) that the rocket was, in fact, suborbital and that it returned to Earth via parachute.  I believe they credited that to another Iranian official, but I'll admit that it was a little vague since it was just a 20 second headline.

That's been on here for the last three or four hours:

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5031

"Following the contracted launch of the Iranian satellite Sina-1 - conducted by Russia - the launch of the satellite Kavesh (Search) may have been carried out by a converted Shahab-3 missile. However, there is confusion on if this was a proper satellite launch - as claimed - or a sub-orbital launch."

"There are conflicting reports about the actual launch profile of this vehicle, with wire reports quoting another Iranian official, who claimed the launch was sub-orbital, rising to 94 miles, before falling to earth by parachute. This contradicts Iranian State TV."

Offline jmjawors

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #13 on: 02/25/2007 04:23 pm »
I know.  I posted it only because it's another "official" report.  And as more of these come out maybe the truth can actually be known rather than the "confusion" that we currently have.  
.:: Matt ::.

Offline collectSPACE

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #14 on: 02/25/2007 05:41 pm »
The NSF article includes the following in its introduction:

Quote
However, there is confusion on if this was a proper satellite launch - as claimed - or a sub-orbital launch.

Chris, can you, or any other readers, cite where Iran (or Iran TV) claimed it was a satellite?

The only direct quotes I have been able to find from the original Iranian TV broadcast are:

Quote
The first space rocket has been successfully launched into space.

and...

Quote
"the rocket was carrying material intended for research created by the ministries of science and defense".

Neither of these seem to suggest a satellite and fit more with the sounding rocket explanation offered later. The NSF headline states, "Iran declares first successful domestic satellite launch" — where did they declare this?

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #15 on: 02/25/2007 05:45 pm »
"Neither of these seem to suggest a satellite "

Then why would they name the "satellite"?

Offline Rob in KC

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #16 on: 02/25/2007 05:57 pm »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/2/2007  12:45 PM

"Neither of these seem to suggest a satellite "

Then why would they name the "satellite"?

Exactly.



collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  12:41 PM

The only direct quotes I have been able to find from the original Iranian TV broadcast are:

Quote
The first space rocket has been successfully launched into space.

"the rocket was carrying material intended for research created by the ministries of science and defense".


You missed the comments:

Quote
Tehran - Iran has launched its first satellite into space, ISNA news agency reported Sunday.

The head of the Iranian Aerospace Research Institute, Mohsen Bahrami, said a locally-made satellite system named Kavesh(search) had been launched.

The report did not specify the exact time of the launch but ISNA believed that it had happened within the last seven weeks.

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #17 on: 02/25/2007 05:58 pm »
You didn't get to see much of a report if you only got two lines. They shows the State TV broadcast and it went on for a while, more than a line or two.

Offline collectSPACE

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #18 on: 02/25/2007 05:59 pm »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/2/2007  12:45 PM

Then why would they name the "satellite"?
The Kuwait News Agency said that the name, "Kavesh" was that of the rocket, not the satellite, which would also lend credence to it being a sounding rocket and not a converted Shahab-3.

Google News search returns only five articles citing "Kavesh," of which one is NSF, one is the Kuwait News Service and the other three are from the DPA. The latter does report that the title applies to a "locally-made satellite system" but that could very well be a mistake in translation...

Offline Martin FL

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #19 on: 02/25/2007 06:00 pm »
Quote
collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  12:41 PM
Neither of these seem to suggest a satellite and fit more with the sounding rocket explanation offered later. The NSF headline states, "Iran declares first successful domestic satellite launch" — where did they declare this?

Iranian Aerospace Research Institute did.

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #20 on: 02/25/2007 06:03 pm »
Quote
Terry Rocket - 25/2/2007  12:58 PM

You didn't get to see much of a report if you only got two lines. They shows the State TV broadcast and it went on for a while, more than a line or two.
Your reply suggests you saw the broadcast firsthand — can I inquire where? Is it online and I missed the link? I'd like to watch it, too.

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #21 on: 02/25/2007 06:09 pm »
Quote
collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  1:03 PM

Quote
Terry Rocket - 25/2/2007  12:58 PM

You didn't get to see much of a report if you only got two lines. They shows the State TV broadcast and it went on for a while, more than a line or two.
Your reply suggests you saw the broadcast firsthand — can I inquire where? Is it online and I missed the link? I'd like to watch it, too.

Dunno, I was watching it on the news. Don't you get BBC news on the TV where you are?

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #22 on: 02/25/2007 06:11 pm »
Quote
collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  6:59 PM

Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/2/2007  12:45 PM

Then why would they name the "satellite"?
The Kuwait News Agency said that the name, "Kavesh" was that of the rocket, not the satellite, which would also lend credence to it being a sounding rocket and not a converted Shahab-3.


We covered both the satellite and sounding rocket reports.

Offline jmjawors

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #23 on: 02/25/2007 06:14 pm »
I can't see BBC News where I live (though I do have BBC America).  I did find this link though:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6394387.stm

Quote
However, Ali Akbar Golrou, executive director of the same facility, was later quoted by Fars news agency as saying the craft launched by was a sub-orbital rocket for scientific research.

"What was announced by the head of the research centre was the news of launching this sounding rocket," Mr Golrou said.
.:: Matt ::.

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #24 on: 02/25/2007 06:14 pm »
Quote
Terry Rocket - 25/2/2007  1:09 PM

Don't you get BBC news on the TV where you are?
Actually, I do. but no one as of yet mentioned what source they where they were watching and apparently, I missed the replay of the entire Iranian report. Was the Iranian report in English or did the BBC provide translation?

Offline Satori

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #25 on: 02/25/2007 06:15 pm »
My two cents:

First: Iran tries to launch a satellite and at the beginning everything looks okay, allowing the news agencies to give the news of the launch;

Second: Ops, something after all isn't okay... the satellite doesn't get into orbit: a failed launch...

Third: Iran corrects it's initial statement saying it was only a sounding-rocket, not a satellite launch attempt.

Comments?

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #26 on: 02/25/2007 06:20 pm »
Quote
collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  1:14 PM

Quote
Terry Rocket - 25/2/2007  1:09 PM

Don't you get BBC news on the TV where you are?
Actually, I do. but no one as of yet mentioned what source they where they were watching and apparently, I missed the replay of the entire Iranian report. Was the Iranian report in English or did the BBC provide translation?

Cool. Makes up for you lot sending us Fox News lol.

It was someone talking in Iranian and the BBC reporter was talking over it with what was said. I'll look out for it online, might be cause it's Sunday that they've not put up the video on their sight.

Offline jmjawors

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #27 on: 02/25/2007 06:21 pm »
Quote
Satori - 25/2/2007  1:15 PM

My two cents:

First: Iran tries to launch a satellite and at the beginning everything looks okay, allowing the news agencies to give the news of the launch;

Second: Ops, something after all isn't okay... the satellite doesn't get into orbit: a failed launch...

Third: Iran corrects it's initial statement saying it was only a sounding-rocket, not a satellite launch attempt.

Comments?

Interesting thought.  But it did make me think of braddock's post from page 1 of this thread:

Quote
braddock - 25/2/2007  9:58 AM

Some interesting analysis in an article in Defense Tech last month:
http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003219.html

"But if the Globalsecurity.org specs are right, the Iranian missile's delta-v is only about half of the 9-10 kilometers/second needed to get into low-earth orbit. "Unless the Iranians have done something amazing to mod up the power of the Shahab-3, which I haven't seen any reliable evidence of, that theoretical satellite is going nowhere," Mr. RE says."

But intelligence is not infallible (as we all know), so the opinion expressed in that article may be premature.
.:: Matt ::.

Offline Flightstar

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #28 on: 02/25/2007 06:24 pm »
Quote
Satori - 25/2/2007  1:15 PM

My two cents:

First: Iran tries to launch a satellite and at the beginning everything looks okay, allowing the news agencies to give the news of the launch;

Second: Ops, something after all isn't okay... the satellite doesn't get into orbit: a failed launch...

Third: Iran corrects it's initial statement saying it was only a sounding-rocket, not a satellite launch attempt.

Comments?

Possible, as they were due to launch a satellite, that's for sure.

Offline collectSPACE

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #29 on: 02/25/2007 06:25 pm »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/2/2007  1:11 PM

We covered both the satellite and sounding rocket reports.
Yes, to your credit you did, and I did not mean to suggest otherwise. Your headline (and opening paragraphs) however, suggest that there was a clear declaration and I couldn't find any reference to such a statement of intent. And now that Iran itself is saying the original news reports were wrong, I was curious as to what the source of the claim for NSF's article was...

It appears I (along with many others) need to see the original Iranian TV broadcast as it appears to be the only source for any such declaration.

Offline Rocket Guy

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #30 on: 02/25/2007 06:29 pm »
My two cents is that regardless of what may have been reported initially (and perhaps mistakenly), it is most appropriate now to alter the article/headline to read that it was a suborbital test as they are saying. You could add that it was edited and that earlier reports of it having been a satellite launch have turned out to be wrong.

Offline collectSPACE

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #31 on: 02/25/2007 06:38 pm »
Quote
Satori - 25/2/2007  1:15 PM

My two cents:

First: Iran tries to launch a satellite and at the beginning everything looks okay, allowing the news agencies to give the news of the launch;

Second: Ops, something after all isn't okay... the satellite doesn't get into orbit: a failed launch...

Third: Iran corrects it's initial statement saying it was only a sounding-rocket, not a satellite launch attempt.

Comments?
Two problems with this theory:

(1) According to NSF and other news sources (but quoting NSF):

Quote
According to Mohsen Bahrami, head of the Iranian Aerospace Research Institute, the launch took place, successfully, within the last few weeks...
Which negates the pressure of real-time news reporting, and,

(2) Again, quoting NSF:

Quote
This time, however, it appears the launch occurred without the knowledge of the outside world.
How does an orbital-capable launch go undetected by the entire world, let alone the U.S. (which you have to assume has every available eye on Iran given current politics).

Offline Terry Rocket

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #32 on: 02/25/2007 06:42 pm »
Quote
Ben - 25/2/2007  1:29 PM

it was a suborbital test as they are saying.

No they are not. They are saying both.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #33 on: 02/25/2007 06:49 pm »
Quote
collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  7:38 PM

Quote
According to Mohsen Bahrami, head of the Iranian Aerospace Research Institute, the launch took place, successfully, within the last few weeks...

Which negates the pressure of real-time news reporting.

This was a breaking news story, this morning, UK time, when Iranian State TV made the announcement.

The Sounding Rocket theory is being claimed by one Iranian, about six hours after the annoucement.

Offline collectSPACE

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #34 on: 02/25/2007 07:01 pm »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/2/2007  1:49 PM

This was a breaking news story, this morning, UK time, when Iranian State TV made the announcement.
...of a launch that occurred sometime within the past few weeks (per your's and others' reporting) thus for Rui's theory of a failed-launch cover-up to be true, then Mohsen Bahrami, head of the Iranian Aerospace Research Institute, was either lying about the time frame of the launch or lying about its success when the initial broadcast was made earlier this morning. Either way, you're suggesting that Bahrami was purposely spreading falsehoods, which should put his entire "declaration" into question...

Offline Rocket Guy

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #35 on: 02/25/2007 07:02 pm »
Quote
Terry Rocket - 25/2/2007  2:42 PM
No they are not. They are saying both.

No, they were saying both. Now they aren't. The headline and opening line on this site suggests this is the claim. It may have been the claim earlier, but now it is not.

Reuters:
 
"IRAN has launched a sub-orbital rocket for scientific research, not a missile capable of reaching space as earlier reported..."
 
AP:
 
"Iran announced Sunday that the rocket they launched was not actually intended to reach space, despite morning reports..."

Online Chris Bergin

RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #36 on: 02/25/2007 07:12 pm »
Quote
collectSPACE - 25/2/2007  8:01 PM

Either way, you're suggesting that Bahrami was purposely spreading falsehoods, which should put his entire "declaration" into question...

I've made NO such suggestion.

Offline collectSPACE

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #37 on: 02/25/2007 07:18 pm »
Quote
Chris Bergin - 25/2/2007  2:12 PM

I've made NO such suggestion.
Chris, I didn't mean "you" as in you personally, but rather the collective "you" if "you" accept Rui's theory. My comments were based on the logic of a cover-up suggested by Rui.

Offline Satori

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #38 on: 02/25/2007 07:22 pm »
A on-line portuguese newspaper is saying that the iranian defense minister, Mostafa Najjar, stated Saturday that Iran would soon launch a 'space mission' with the objective to orbit a satellite, but, the newspaper continues saying "no one thought that the launch, even without a satellite on board, would come so soon"... Well, this is enigmatic... The newspaper, PUBLICO, gives the news basec on the statements of the iranian state TV.

Offline spaceflight101

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #39 on: 02/25/2007 07:47 pm »
Maybe they just got tired of watching the 1946 V-2 movie on YouTube, and reruns of "October Sky", and decided to try it for themselves?
Maybe they wanted to upstage "Astronaut Farmer"? :)

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #40 on: 02/26/2007 11:19 pm »
From the FPSpace mailling list:

Two articles on Iran launch...alleges launch was a failed orbital test...

From the Wordtribune.com http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/07/front2454158.064583333.html

And from the Middle East Newsline http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2007/february/02_27_1.html

Offline MKremer

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #41 on: 02/27/2007 12:35 am »
Well, everyone has to start somewhere.

I think the major concern is, whether they primarily want to use their LV to deliver weapons (and depending on what kind of target accuracy they want), or as primarily a development vehicle for non-weapon purposes. (A comm-sat/spy-sat would still be military-concerned (and not demanding official reprisals), but a blatant weapons system - primarily weapons-system/warhead- LV would definitely be worrying.)


Offline kevin-rf

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Re: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #42 on: 02/27/2007 01:33 pm »
Quote
Satori - 26/2/2007  6:19 PM

From the FPSpace mailling list:

Two articles on Iran launch...alleges launch was a failed orbital test...

From the Wordtribune.com http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/07/front2454158.064583333.html

And from the Middle East Newsline http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2007/february/02_27_1.html

Since when do orbital test include parachutes. Something fishy with the spin.

Maybe suborbital test that came short on altitude? Reentry vehicle test for a warhead? Something they wantedback after a balistic flight?
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Offline cz77

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RE: Iran launches home-made space missile
« Reply #43 on: 02/28/2007 06:02 pm »
Lets see......Iran wanting nuclear power..........orbit ability.............. naaahhhh we dont have anything to worry about.

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