Author Topic: Rocketplane XP  (Read 34806 times)

Offline meiza

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #20 on: 03/06/2007 12:45 pm »
GF3, would it be possible to get a Q&A with some Rocketplane engineers?

Offline GF3

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #21 on: 03/06/2007 02:20 pm »
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meiza - 6/3/2007  7:45 AM

GF3, would it be possible to get a Q&A with some Rocketplane engineers?


Its possible. We setup a web cast 3 weeks back with Microsoft for the Vanishing point game. We had a few engineers and the Dave Faulkner take part in it. I will see what I can do. Right now I can tell you we can do it but it depends on time. Everyone is pretty busy lately so when I can get some people to free up some time we can do it.

Offline stefan1138

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #22 on: 03/10/2007 12:38 pm »
Sorry, a bit off topic, if Rockteplane is successfull, would it be (economically) practical to convert an even bigger aircraft from jet to suborbital spaceship (for example a small airliner like a CRJ or even a B737)?

Stefan :)


Offline bad_astra

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #23 on: 03/10/2007 04:21 pm »
Quote
stefan1138 - 10/3/2007  7:38 AM

Sorry, a bit off topic, if Rockteplane is successfull, would it be (economically) practical to convert an even bigger aircraft from jet to suborbital spaceship (for example a small airliner like a CRJ or even a B737)?

Stefan :)


Maybe a Concorde?
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Offline PurduesUSAFguy

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #24 on: 03/10/2007 04:45 pm »
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bad_astra - 10/3/2007  11:21 AM

Quote
stefan1138 - 10/3/2007  7:38 AM

Sorry, a bit off topic, if Rockteplane is successfull, would it be (economically) practical to convert an even bigger aircraft from jet to suborbital spaceship (for example a small airliner like a CRJ or even a B737)?

Stefan :)


Maybe a Concorde?

Actually I'd be willing to bet that your best bet for a large aircraft to be converted to sub-orbital opperations would be the Boeing 727. The B727 was rather over designed for the stresses that it actually eperienced in flight, it like the Lear was an engines in tail design that would be easier to convert then wing mounted engines, and there are many airframes in mothballs that could be had for very little capital.

Offline bad_astra

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RE: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #25 on: 03/10/2007 06:03 pm »
I can't see any use for a very large suborbital. The market for $200,000 joyrides is never going to be that great, and isn't going to be composed of the type of people who enjoy sitting in coach.
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Offline meiza

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #26 on: 03/11/2007 12:04 am »
Quote
GF3 - 6/3/2007  3:20 PM

Quote
meiza - 6/3/2007  7:45 AM

GF3, would it be possible to get a Q&A with some Rocketplane engineers?


Its possible. We setup a web cast 3 weeks back with Microsoft for the Vanishing point game. We had a few engineers and the Dave Faulkner take part in it. I will see what I can do. Right now I can tell you we can do it but it depends on time. Everyone is pretty busy lately so when I can get some people to free up some time we can do it.

I mean, we could gather questions beforehand and then he could type answers to them in the mail or something like that? I don't know. I'm just a forum member here. :) It might be good publicity.

Offline stefan1138

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RE: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #27 on: 03/11/2007 08:52 am »
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bad_astra - 10/3/2007  1:03 PM

I can't see any use for a very large suborbital. The market for $200,000 joyrides is never going to be that great, and isn't going to be composed of the type of people who enjoy sitting in coach.


But if there is a bigger aircraft with more space, maybe prices would go down also and thus more people would be willing to go suborbital?

Stefan :)

Offline gladiator1332

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #28 on: 03/11/2007 02:10 pm »
Most of the seats would be removed, and the one advantage to this would be for the passengers to be able to enjoy zero G.

Offline simonbp

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RE: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #29 on: 03/11/2007 04:02 pm »
Quote
bad_astra - 10/3/2007  1:03 PM

I can't see any use for a very large suborbital. The market for $200,000 joyrides is never going to be that great, and isn't going to be composed of the type of people who enjoy sitting in coach.

The market is for trans-atlantic and -pacific flights, replacing the 0.8 mach airliners of today. If you can get a sub-orbital passenger/mail flight for only slightly more than an airliner flight, the market for very large suborbital aerospacecraft will open right up. The problem is finding a way to get there...

Simon ;)

Offline meiza

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RE: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #30 on: 03/11/2007 07:38 pm »
Quote
simonbp - 11/3/2007  6:02 PM

Quote
bad_astra - 10/3/2007  1:03 PM

I can't see any use for a very large suborbital. The market for $200,000 joyrides is never going to be that great, and isn't going to be composed of the type of people who enjoy sitting in coach.

The market is for trans-atlantic and -pacific flights, replacing the 0.8 mach airliners of today. If you can get a sub-orbital passenger/mail flight for only slightly more than an airliner flight, the market for very large suborbital aerospacecraft will open right up. The problem is finding a way to get there...

Simon ;)

I think it's a much harder problem than the "just 100km straight up" one... For one, the former takes minutes, but even at 1 km/s on a ground following straight great circle track (ie no high ballistic arc), 7000 km (transatlantic, say, chicago-stockholm) takes two hours. You need either a very high ballistic arc or hefty sustainers to keep you up there for over two hours, or then have to travel much faster horizontally. Someone else can probably optimize the minimum angle and delta vee out of this, ICBM-style, but I bet it's not very far from orbital velocity..

And on short trips suborbital isn't useful as the airport congestion takes so long anyway...

I also think that it'd be very wasteful to shoot people constantly around the world. The fuel consumption would be big compared to current airliners, and they already use a lot of oil and pollute.  :angry:

Offline zealot

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #31 on: 03/12/2007 09:34 pm »
Hi guys. What do you mean 'no market for a big one', what about a reusable first stage, huh?  I read a study by Arianne consortium saying a reusable transatlantic jumper would cut cost by half. It was a study on replacement of Arianne, give you a link if I find it again.

Offline Marsman

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #32 on: 03/12/2007 09:55 pm »
I'd like to see how they could cut the cost in half if you can find it. But the question is, what was the original cost that was cut in half?

Offline zealot

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #33 on: 03/13/2007 09:23 am »
the cost of arianne 5 launch, cant remember what was the exact payload mass, but i guess it must have been comparable to that of arianne. there were different options considered, some of them not very realistic, this one  was deemed realistic. here'swhat it looked like: sometihing like two arianne 5 core stages, with the engines adapted for reusability, lying side by side, with a cylindrical cargo bay, also more or  less A5 sized, lying on top, crossection would look something like a clover leaf. all that 'wrapped' in a lifting body craft. (by the way, they decided core stage is too large for parachute recovery, so all designs were winged or lifting bodies). It would take of horizontally from coururoa and land somewhere across the atlantic. which, I guess, would mean a logistical nightmare of getting it back. the non reusable orbital stage would be ejected at the top of the arc, through the hatch IN THE BACK of the cargo bay. the paper was from the nineties, 94 or so and the plan was to start implementing it in...wait for it... 2007. but i found their another quite recent paper, which i didnt even bother to read, dealing with the same stuff. in other words, they only order them to keep their guys employed, just like nasa. but that doesnt mean that the findings are wrong.

now, since rocketplane is now working with kistler, i think using the experience from XP to stuff some K1 engines and other systems up an airliner's or cargo's butt is the logical next step. and you could, after landing, just turn it round and cruise back to lounch site like a normal jet, so better than ariane project. rocketplane man, what say you?

Offline GF3

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #34 on: 03/13/2007 03:34 pm »
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zealot - 13/3/2007  5:23 AM

the cost of arianne 5 launch, cant remember what was the exact payload mass, but i guess it must have been comparable to that of arianne. there were different options considered, some of them not very realistic, this one  was deemed realistic. here'swhat it looked like: sometihing like two arianne 5 core stages, with the engines adapted for reusability, lying side by side, with a cylindrical cargo bay, also more or  less A5 sized, lying on top, crossection would look something like a clover leaf. all that 'wrapped' in a lifting body craft. (by the way, they decided core stage is too large for parachute recovery, so all designs were winged or lifting bodies). It would take of horizontally from coururoa and land somewhere across the atlantic. which, I guess, would mean a logistical nightmare of getting it back. the non reusable orbital stage would be ejected at the top of the arc, through the hatch IN THE BACK of the cargo bay. the paper was from the nineties, 94 or so and the plan was to start implementing it in...wait for it... 2007. but i found their another quite recent paper, which i didnt even bother to read, dealing with the same stuff. in other words, they only order them to keep their guys employed, just like nasa. but that doesnt mean that the findings are wrong.

now, since rocketplane is now working with kistler, i think using the experience from XP to stuff some K1 engines and other systems up an airliner's or cargo's butt is the logical next step. and you could, after landing, just turn it round and cruise back to lounch site like a normal jet, so better than ariane project. rocketplane man, what say you?

Its hard to talk about these things in public lets say..... We are a couple setups ahead of this discussion and the technology is not the problem. Technology is there.... The problem is in the logistics, and FAA regulations on where you can take off and land for a space flight. Remember as of right now if i want to go from new york to paris it has to be from spaceport to spaceport... our plane can take of and land from airport to airport but because of restrictions for a space flight areas have to be zoned for space flight....

As of right now we have been designing our ship to be the most versatile of all our competitors. It can easily (with some redesign) change from its current state to one that can be made for point to point. We started with this in mind. Logistics and the business end is  that hardest part of point to point.

why do you think we aren't mentioned in the media at all?? Our competitors realize this and pay to keep us out.

Offline zealot

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #35 on: 03/13/2007 07:43 pm »
Screw FAA, go abroad. There must be a country with more cooperative attitude, and after all the beauty of most of the new space systems is that they are easily 'portable', that definitely includes you.
That thing with the media looks like a sentence too far, unless you can back it up.
As for the 'who first' ranking, what about this: public.blueorigin.com/index.html  -impressive, huh?

Offline GF3

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #36 on: 03/13/2007 07:50 pm »
Quote
zealot - 13/3/2007  3:43 PM

Screw FAA, go abroad. There must be a country with more cooperative attitude, and after all the beauty of most of the new space systems is that they are easily 'portable', that definitely includes you.
That thing with the media looks like a sentence too far, unless you can back it up.
As for the 'who first' ranking, what about this: public.blueorigin.com/index.html  -impressive, huh?

Very Impressive. I was just there about two or three weeks ago reading about all that Blue Origin has done.

I don't think there can be a 'who first' ranking... I mean each company is so different in what they are doing its hard to say who is where. I just think its great that  our community as a whole seems to be making some great progress in the last few years.

Offline hop

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #37 on: 03/13/2007 08:47 pm »
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zealot - 13/3/2007  1:43 PM
Screw FAA, go abroad. There must be a country with more cooperative attitude, and after all the beauty of most of the new space systems is that they are easily 'portable', that definitely includes you.
Trading the FAA bureaucracy for the ITAR bureaucracy is almost certainly a step in the wrong direction.

Offline zealot

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #38 on: 03/13/2007 10:04 pm »
.
[/QUOTE]
Trading the FAA bureaucracy for the ITAR bureaucracy is almost certainly a step in the wrong direction.[/QUOTE]
HA! And to think that I recently tried to convince the guy at 'out of the cradle' that the American obsession with keeping a monopoly on space technologies is a key factor in the stagnation of space efforts, and he wouldn't agree!
Here's an idea: once it's all built, in the dead of night, pick up all your toys and evacuate for India, or Kenia, or he, he - Venezuela. You know, some souvereign country, with no extradition laws. :cool:

Offline gladiator1332

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Re: Rocketplane XP
« Reply #39 on: 03/14/2007 04:03 pm »
Quote
zealot - 13/3/2007  6:23 AM

the cost of arianne 5 launch, cant remember what was the exact payload mass, but i guess it must have been comparable to that of arianne. there were different options considered, some of them not very realistic, this one  was deemed realistic. here'swhat it looked like: sometihing like two arianne 5 core stages, with the engines adapted for reusability, lying side by side, with a cylindrical cargo bay, also more or  less A5 sized, lying on top, crossection would look something like a clover leaf. all that 'wrapped' in a lifting body craft. (by the way, they decided core stage is too large for parachute recovery, so all designs were winged or lifting bodies). It would take of horizontally from coururoa and land somewhere across the atlantic. which, I guess, would mean a logistical nightmare of getting it back. the non reusable orbital stage would be ejected at the top of the arc, through the hatch IN THE BACK of the cargo bay. the paper was from the nineties, 94 or so and the plan was to start implementing it in...wait for it... 2007. but i found their another quite recent paper, which i didnt even bother to read, dealing with the same stuff. in other words, they only order them to keep their guys employed, just like nasa. but that doesnt mean that the findings are wrong.

now, since rocketplane is now working with kistler, i think using the experience from XP to stuff some K1 engines and other systems up an airliner's or cargo's butt is the logical next step. and you could, after landing, just turn it round and cruise back to lounch site like a normal jet, so better than ariane project. rocketplane man, what say you?

I'm thinking of an idea for orbital (and I'm sure the great people at Rocketplane are doing the same)...why not launch it piggyback on the K1. Not only is this good for orbital tourism, but it would be used for sub-orbital as well. The military was also looking at similar idea with a X-37 like vehicle mounted piggyback on a DC-X like launcher.


And for those interested, here is an interview that the Space Review Conducted awhile back:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/343/1  

Still would like to have a Q & A on here if it is possible. But we know everybody at RP is really busy right now...keep up the good work guys, and we're pulling for you all!  :)

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