Author Topic: Project STARFALL  (Read 17554 times)

Offline catdlr

  • She will always be part of me.
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27308
  • Enthusiast since the Redstone and Thunderbirds
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 22385
  • Likes Given: 13381
Project STARFALL
« on: 07/15/2025 07:57 pm »
SpaceX Plans Starship Program for In-Orbit Drug Research

Source

Quote
SpaceX is working on a program to use its mammoth Starship rocket to develop commercial products in space, potentially opening up a new business line for the world’s most valuable private startup, according to people familiar with the matter.

From Google Gemini:

Quote
Recent reports, including those from the Los Angeles Times and Bloomberg, indicate that SpaceX is indeed developing an internal program named "Starfall."

Here's what is known about it:

Purpose: The primary goal of Starfall is to utilize the Starship rocket for the development of commercial products in space. This aims to open up a new business line for SpaceX.

Methodology: Starship would carry small, uncrewed capsules containing products like pharmaceutical components into space. These capsules would then be deployed, spend time in orbit, and eventually re-enter the atmosphere for recovery on Earth.

Benefits of Space Environment: The program seeks to leverage the unique conditions of space, particularly micro-gravity and higher levels of radiation, which can offer new environments for manufacturing various commercial goods. This includes pharmaceutical drugs, semiconductors, food, and even beauty products.

Commercial Potential: This initiative could position SpaceX as a leader in space-based research and development for commercial goods, building on its success in lowering launch costs.

Development Stage: The Starfall program is currently in its early stages of development, and plans could change. Its success is highly dependent on Starship achieving operational reliability, as it has experienced a number of test flight failures.

Timeline: SpaceX reportedly aims to make the program operational roughly by the end of the decade.

Leadership and Partnerships: A team for Starfall has been recently formed under the leadership of Chris Trautner, senior director of vehicle engineering for the Falcon family of rockets. SpaceX is also in talks with potential customers for this service and is working in conjunction with the military on potential defense applications for Starfall.

It's important to note that while the concept of "Starfall" is related to commercial in-space manufacturing, the name might also appear in other contexts, such as in sci-fi games or as a colloquial term for Starship re-entry events. However, in the context of a specific SpaceX program, it refers to this commercial in-orbit research and development initiative.

Sources:


Investing.com
www.investing.com
SpaceX plans Starship program for in-orbit drug research - Bloomberg By Investing.com
Investing.com -- SpaceX is developing a program to utilize its Starship rocket for commercial product development in space, potentially creating a new revenue ...
https://www.investing.com/news/company-news/spacex-plans-starship-program-for-inorbit-drug-research--bloomberg-93CH-4136376

Los Angeles Times
www.latimes.com
SpaceX plans Starship program for in-orbit drug research - Los Angeles Times
Under the plan, internally called Starfall, SpaceX's Starship rocket would bring products like pharmaceutical components to space in small, un
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2025-07-15/spacex-plans-starship-program-for-in-orbit-drug-research
« Last Edit: 07/15/2025 08:00 pm by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa... I don't create this stuff; I just report it.  I also cover launches and trim post (Tony TrimmerHand).

Offline AmigaClone

Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #1 on: 07/15/2025 08:25 pm »
Sounds like the Starfall concept is a development of SpaceX's 2014 concept of DragonLab. It will be interesting to see how or if it works.

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17531
  • N. California
  • Liked: 17867
  • Likes Given: 1502
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #2 on: 07/15/2025 09:13 pm »
I'm surprised they have the bandwidth, unless there's some very specific process that's at play  which has a market that's comparable to the things they're already making.

Also interesting about the capsules (how large?) as opposed to manufacturing in the ship itself.
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Tywin

Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #3 on: 07/15/2025 09:58 pm »
Maybe some stuff of Redwire...
The knowledge is power...Everything is connected...
The Turtle continues at a steady pace ...

Offline sdsds

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8569
  • “With peace and hope for all mankind.”
  • Seattle
  • Liked: 3017
  • Likes Given: 2747
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #4 on: 07/15/2025 10:17 pm »
Giving credit where it's due, I'm fairly certain this is based on original reporting by Sana Pashankar, Ed Ludlow and Kiel Porter, all affiliated with Bloomberg.
— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 —

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5225
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2747
  • Likes Given: 1586
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #5 on: 07/16/2025 12:52 am »
I'm surprised they have the bandwidth, unless there's some very specific process that's at play  which has a market that's comparable to the things they're already making.

Also interesting about the capsules (how large?) as opposed to manufacturing in the ship itself.

Per Bloomberg the capsules are "small," but I would expect nothing else from the first version. If necessary, the capsules could get larger in later iterations.

Quote
The Starfall program would allow companies to take advantage of the unique conditions of space, specifically micro-gravity and higher levels of radiation, which can provide a new environment for manufacturing pharmaceutical drugs, semiconductors, food, and even beauty products.

Sounds like there's no specific application in mind. It's a platform. In particular, it's a First Principles answer to the question: "what is the lowest cost space manufacturing platform?"

I predict exciting days ahead.  :)

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5225
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2747
  • Likes Given: 1586
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #6 on: 07/16/2025 01:27 am »
Quote
What is the lowest cost space manufacturing platform?

I should explain.

    Rule 1: No People. Not only do people ruin your microgravity, but the cost and risk goes up tremendously.

    Rule 2: Full reuse (unlike Varda). This not only reduces cost, it lets your customers recover and inspect and rapidly iterate on their zero-g production machinery. This is a necessary enabler.

    Rule 3:  Multiple redundant capsules. If one production machine out of 10 fails, deorbit that capsule early to troubleshoot while the other nine stay in orbit.

    Rule 4: Fly, baby, fly! If there's a flight opportunity every two weeks you can iterate production machinery much faster vs quarterly or annual flights. Thanks, Starship.  :D


This is a new, huge, green-field market where Starship is a key enabler. It's another Starlink.

Offline crandles57

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1225
  • Sychdyn
  • Liked: 650
  • Likes Given: 245
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #7 on: 07/16/2025 01:45 am »
Quote
What is the lowest cost space manufacturing platform?

This is a new, huge, green-field market where Starship is a key enabler. It's another Starlink.

Is it necessarily manufacturing?

Looks like research rather than manufacturing initially but that may be same processes as manufacturing and expansion to manufacturing may help its size though I am not sure about "its another starlink" based on either or both at least not for a while yet. But I could easily be wrong on this.

Military involved? What is faster than rapid loading of equipment and launch for fast deployment of equipment anywhere on Earth? Maybe storing that equipment in space ready to start re-entry at a moments notice?

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5225
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2747
  • Likes Given: 1586
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #8 on: 07/16/2025 01:59 am »
Quote
What is the lowest cost space manufacturing platform?

This is a new, huge, green-field market where Starship is a key enabler. It's another Starlink.

Is it necessarily manufacturing?

It's a platform. It lets you do any commercial or industrial process that needs access to zero-g, infragravity, certain types of radiation, or ultra-high vacuum. Sans people of course.

Just like Starlink, SpaceX is again building on their innovation in orbital launch, now making a generalized platform so any business or researcher can use space to Get Things Done.

Starfall is more than just manufacturing, but it still eats the ~entire zero-g manufacturing pie.   :o

This is Starlink For Atoms.

Looks like research rather than manufacturing initially

Of the listed applications they headlined pharmaceuticals instead of cosmetics too, so partly it's standard marketing shine.

These are indeed early days, in uncharted waters, so we're still finding the big "killer apps." Research (naturally) comes before commercialization.


Military involved? What is faster than rapid loading of equipment and launch for fast deployment of equipment anywhere on Earth? Maybe storing that equipment in space ready to start re-entry at a moments notice?

Conventional wisdom says this destabilizes MAD (no way to know if it's a crate of AR-15 ammo or a nuke, so you must assume nuke and launch your second strike), but 'conventional wisdom' means less and less.
« Last Edit: 07/16/2025 05:30 am by Twark_Main »

Offline thespacecow

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1230
  • e/acc
  • Liked: 1185
  • Likes Given: 517
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #9 on: 07/16/2025 04:28 am »
Why small capsule though, seems that this wasted Starship's potential and just using it as a LV. I mean they're already doing it with Transporter + Varda capsule right now, not sure they need to start a new department just to repeat that.

Would make more sense to use Starship as the factory and return product by Starship EDL. If they do need more frequent product returns (like Hexagon) then the capsule would be return only, they shouldn't be independent factory spacecraft.
« Last Edit: 07/16/2025 04:30 am by thespacecow »

Offline Apollo22

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Liked: 85
  • Likes Given: 597
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #10 on: 07/16/2025 09:22 am »
Cool ! Having learned my space history, I can tell that concept is at least 45 years old - Space Shuttle, you guess, but not only. Crystal growth was first tried on Skylab 52 years ago, and it was to be a major activity for Spacelab.

There has been a bazillion of space companies that targeted that market over the last four decades: part Shuttle, part ISS, part cheap RLV payloads. I could mention at least half a dozen, from the top of my head (ESA/CNES Cariane capsule, 30 years ago. Where do you think The Exploration Company, Nyx got their idea ? everything new is old again ).
Nanoracks is a successful example, related to the ISS. Spacehab is another.

I would say that Starship, with its enormous payload and full reusability, might be a game changer.
« Last Edit: 07/16/2025 11:51 am by Apollo22 »

Offline pilotError

  • Member
  • Posts: 66
  • Long Island
  • Liked: 53
  • Likes Given: 22
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #11 on: 07/16/2025 10:37 am »
Why small capsule though, seems that this wasted Starship's potential and just using it as a LV. I mean they're already doing it with Transporter + Varda capsule right now, not sure they need to start a new department just to repeat that.
*snip*

Speculation on my part, but it might be that they start sending them using Falcon ride shares or a single dedicated launch to test out the concept. When Starship has finally reached operational status, they can move to bigger platforms. 

Offline crandles57

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1225
  • Sychdyn
  • Liked: 650
  • Likes Given: 245
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #12 on: 07/16/2025 10:52 am »
Why small capsule though, seems that this wasted Starship's potential and just using it as a LV. I mean they're already doing it with Transporter + Varda capsule right now, not sure they need to start a new department just to repeat that.

Would make more sense to use Starship as the factory and return product by Starship EDL. If they do need more frequent product returns (like Hexagon) then the capsule would be return only, they shouldn't be independent factory spacecraft.

If it is lots of different things being made which have different desired return frequencies? Do you need separate manufacturing equipment for each because you want to work in parallel not in sequence? Even if in sequence is desirable to save costs on sending manufacturing equipment is sterilisation to prevent cross contamination difficult or problematic?

At scale you might be able to imagine launching with 3 different return dates docking and transferring the short timescale to the next Starship to return while medium dates are transferred to the next Starship after that to return. Later you receive medium then short timescale items from subsequent launches and return full or nearly so. This saves having the re-entry shield mass but probably still want a capsule for easier transfer? However, if you don't have the scale to do this yet, why tie up a starship that can be doing other launches?

So start with capsules. If you get the volume then consider but it might still be a trade off where tying up the starship is worse than mass and cost of tying up lots of re-entry shields?

Offline crandles57

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1225
  • Sychdyn
  • Liked: 650
  • Likes Given: 245
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #13 on: 07/16/2025 11:14 am »

Conventional wisdom says this destabilizes MAD (no way to know if it's a crate of AR-15 ammo or a nuke, so you must assume nuke and launch your second strike), but 'conventional wisdom' means less and less.

Some military uses might be for disaster recovery or peacekeeping and can inform nuclear powers it is about to happen. Even if it is warfare, only use against enemy that is not a nuclear power or aligned with one? Less sure about the reassurance from being aimed at an area sender controls because crate could contain short range nuclear missile? Arms convention against such may help a little? Also a series all going to one location that sender controls is a lot less worrying than several going to different locations (particularly if sender does not control locations). Maybe even allow international inspection team access prior and during loading?

Offline Apollo22

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Liked: 85
  • Likes Given: 597
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #14 on: 07/16/2025 11:49 am »
Simple maths... Let's suppose an Apollo-size, unmanned, modernized capsule. Mass: 3 metric tons. Think of ESA ARD (Atmospheric Reentry Demonstrator) as flown on the third Ariane 5 in October 1998.

With a payload of 150 tons, a Starship could haul 50 of them in orbit, before releasing them Starlink -style.

Then, each capsule with its own internal space-business-on-racks (crystals growth, cancer medecine, ZBLAN... you get the point) go live its own life in orbit; before reentering when ordered from the ground for ground experiment recovery, Starliner landing style.

Pretty much those companies business cases, except adapted to Starship tremendous capabilities in cost, payload, and reusability (Dreamchaser too, cough).
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exploration_Company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Rider

That fruit has been "low hanging" since the Shuttle pre-history 50 years ago, but launch costs have been a huge hindrance. Scoop:  it doesn't work at the Shuttle $2 billion launch a pop, nor even at $100 million. That is, at $10 000 a pound to orbit it is dead and buried.

For the record, before 1986 NASA promised a Shuttle 30,000 kg of payload at $10 million per launch, hence: 333 $ a kg to orbit. At such bargain price, Spacelab could have profitably grown zero-G crystals in orbit. Of course that cost estimation was already a big lie even before the Challenger disaster...

Accordingly, if Starship is made to work (no reason it can't), it could reap that business in a pretty spectacular way.
« Last Edit: 07/16/2025 12:05 pm by Apollo22 »

Offline Apollo22

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Liked: 85
  • Likes Given: 597
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #15 on: 07/16/2025 12:10 pm »

Conventional wisdom says this destabilizes MAD (no way to know if it's a crate of AR-15 ammo or a nuke, so you must assume nuke and launch your second strike), but 'conventional wisdom' means less and less.

Some military uses might be for disaster recovery or peacekeeping and can inform nuclear powers it is about to happen. Even if it is warfare, only use against enemy that is not a nuclear power or aligned with one? Less sure about the reassurance from being aimed at an area sender controls because crate could contain short range nuclear missile? Arms convention against such may help a little? Also a series all going to one location that sender controls is a lot less worrying than several going to different locations (particularly if sender does not control locations). Maybe even allow international inspection team access prior and during loading?

I can't see any issue with MAD. Starship is massively different from a (suborbital incidentally) ICBM. While a Nyx -like capsule won't trigger a FOBS scare anytime soon (It might have been different in Clarke world of 2001, where 38 countries have FOBS-nukes in orbit... but mercifully, this remains a fiction  ;D )

The Soviets have (expensively) proven that FOBS is a dead end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Orbital_Bombardment_System
« Last Edit: 07/16/2025 12:10 pm by Apollo22 »

Offline Twark_Main

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5225
  • Technically we ALL live in space
  • Liked: 2747
  • Likes Given: 1586
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #16 on: 07/16/2025 12:26 pm »
Military involved? What is faster than rapid loading of equipment and launch for fast deployment of equipment anywhere on Earth? Maybe storing that equipment in space ready to start re-entry at a moments notice?

Conventional wisdom says this destabilizes MAD (no way to know if it's a crate of AR-15 ammo or a nuke, so you must assume nuke and launch your second strike), but 'conventional wisdom' means less and less.

Some military uses might be for disaster recovery or peacekeeping and can inform nuclear powers it is about to happen. Even if it is warfare, only use against enemy that is not a nuclear power or aligned with one? Less sure about the reassurance from being aimed at an area sender controls because crate could contain short range nuclear missile? Arms convention against such may help a little? Also a series all going to one location that sender controls is a lot less worrying than several going to different locations (particularly if sender does not control locations). Maybe even allow international inspection team access prior and during loading?

I can't see any issue with MAD. Starship is massively different from a (suborbital incidentally) ICBM. While a Nyx -like capsule won't trigger a FOBS scare anytime soon (It might have been different in Clarke world of 2001, where 38 countries have FOBS-nukes in orbit... but mercifully, this remains a fiction  ;D )

The Soviets have (expensively) proven that FOBS is a dead end.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Orbital_Bombardment_System

FOBS doesn't loiter in space (hence "fractional orbit"), that would be Multiple Orbit Bombardment System or MOBS.

And yes, these are still a concern (mostly related to China). See also:

https://thespacereview.com/article/4466/1

https://lieber.westpoint.edu/countering-space-based-weapons-mass-destruction-2/

https://www.amazon.com/Orbital-Fractional-Orbit-Bombardment-System-ebook/dp/B01N7Q42L9
« Last Edit: 07/16/2025 12:55 pm by Twark_Main »

Offline Hug

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 121
  • Australia
  • Liked: 188
  • Likes Given: 103
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #17 on: 07/16/2025 02:23 pm »
    Rule 2: Full reuse (unlike Varda). This not only reduces cost, it lets your customers recover and inspect and rapidly iterate on their zero-g production machinery. This is a necessary enabler.

Varda will integrate reusability into future versions of their capsules. This would make a lot of sense if it was a partnership with Varda, although if anyone is capable of making a production line for hundreds of small re-entry capable satellite platforms, it's got to be SpaceX.

Offline raptorx2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 365
  • san diego, ca
  • Liked: 205
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #18 on: 10/06/2025 08:29 pm »
STARFALL - Credit https://x.com/Megaconstellati/status/1975291788924707258

On 19-MAY-25
@SpaceX
 registered the service mark "STARFALL" through the island nation of Tonga covering: launch, on-orbit, and reentry services, spaceflight travel, in-space manufacturing services, custom manufacturing & processing of pharmaceuticals [...]

SpaceX also filed ITU filings for a 29,988+ W Band Constellation registered via Tonga TONGA MINISTRY OF METEOROLOGY, ENERGY, INFORMATION, DISASTER MANAGEMENT, ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE AND COMMUNICATIONS in 2023

https://t.co/txzyVYu9er

Offline raptorx2

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 365
  • san diego, ca
  • Liked: 205
  • Likes Given: 6
Re: Project STARFALL
« Reply #19 on: 10/06/2025 08:43 pm »
STARFALL - Credit https://x.com/Megaconstellati/status/1975291788924707258

On 19-MAY-25
@SpaceX
 registered the service mark "STARFALL" through the island nation of Tonga covering: launch, on-orbit, and reentry services, spaceflight travel, in-space manufacturing services, custom manufacturing & processing of pharmaceuticals [...]

SpaceX also filed ITU filings for a 29,988+ W Band Constellation registered via Tonga TONGA MINISTRY OF METEOROLOGY, ENERGY, INFORMATION, DISASTER MANAGEMENT, ENVIRONMENT, CLIMATE CHANGE AND COMMUNICATIONS in 2023

https://t.co/txzyVYu9er

Processing of pharmaceuticals???  Hmmmm....  I'm having flashbacks of Breaking Bad.

https://t.co/V6LCuim4DW

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1