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#440 by mkirk on 01 Mar, 2006 04:17
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Jamie Young - 28/2/2006 8:49 PM
Just those switches? The others ok to move? Ok, then this question is a bit moving on, but when that picture was taking, was Discovery turned on?
It really depends on the situation. It is a safety and shuttle configuration managment tool.
In that particular picture you can see tape on some of the switches, the tape is removed preflight and is there during processing for various reasons. If you look at the bottom right of the picture you see tape over a couple of switches that control power to the heaters in the right OMS pod. If for example a technician is doing work in that area then it is a good idea to make sure that circuit is not inadvertently activated. Other switches have metal guards such as the ones located by the control stick in the center of the console. Some switches actually have the guards over them during flight because they control very critical functions.
Another thing you might notice if you look in the middle of the left console is there are some yellow and red circuit breakers. The orbiter's circuit breakers are color coded to indicate their setting for a specific phase of flight. For example the red breakers are supposed to always be open, yellow breakers are open for ascent and then closed when the appropriate procedure says to do so, green breakers would be opened in orbit only and so on...
In general no-body is allowed to just start throwing switches while the orbiter is being processed for launch. This is true in the OPF, the VAB and on the PAD. If something needs to be adjusted all the related switch throws are coordinated thru the Test Conductors. In fact only people with specific training certification are allowed to operate the cockpit controls. This was a little hard for me to get used to the first time I entered the orbiter. I was used to climbing into the SMS (shuttle mission simulator) in Houston and doing whatever I felt was necessary such as powering on the computers, changing displays, turning up the lights, adjusting the seat, and so on. While I felt completely at home in the cockpit, at the Cape I could not touch a single thing without prior coordination and approval.
Crew members are subjected to the same treatment especially during the countdown for launch. While in the simulator a crew member wouldn't think twice about adjusting his/her seat with the electric switches on the side of the seat pan. In the real orbiter during the countdown they are supposed to check with the Launch Control Center before doing any such thing. This is because everyone in the LCC is closely analyzing every aspect of the shuttle's health and even something as simple as moving the seat can effect the orbiters electrical loads. If those folks aren't expecting you to be doing anything then they might conclude that there is some sort of electrical problem occuring deep in the system. (Actually the ground folks have gotten quite good at deciphering an unexpected cockpit change by the crew from a system's problem and they will quickly ask the crew if they changed something before assuming something is wrong with the shuttle.)
Things aren't quite so strict once the shuttle is in orbit, but even then the crew does not change the vehicles configuration on a whim. Everything is governed by written procedures and verbal communication. They are of course allowed to change the lighting or temperature or use the toilet, etc. without prior permission
Here are a couple more pictures taken of Discovery at the same time as the previous ones. You will notice a lot of tape and switch guards. The first picture is the commanders side and the other is the pilots side of the cockpit.
A SIDE NOTE: If you look at the right console in the second picture of the Pilots side of the cockpit, you will see six switches with yellow tabs on the top. These are the switches that control electical power to the main engines. The two rows of switches just behind them control the helium isolation valves. To prevent the pilot from inadvertently shutting the engines off when all he intended to do was change the helium valves; someone decided that since the switches look similar they should be marked with the yellow tabs. More than one crew member in the heat of battle during a simulation has accidentally shutdown the engines...you loose a lot of "Cool Points" for that...It would be really bad to do that during a real flight.
Mark Kirkman
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#441 by Avron on 01 Mar, 2006 04:26
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Amazing pics Mark... many thanks
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#442 by Jamie Young on 01 Mar, 2006 04:28
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Wow, thanks Mark. It's like I've just sat on the flight deck of an orbiter. So damn cool!
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#443 by Orbiter Obvious on 01 Mar, 2006 04:33
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Awesome!
I asked this of some engineers before and it was very nice to see how they care about the Orbiters. I don't know what it's like simply being able to go into an Shuttle Orbiter, but do they all seem different, have their own quirks? Like Columbia was the older stateswoman and Endeavour's the youngster? Just want to understand why so many people really care about these ships just like they are part of the NASA family. Maybe it's an engineer thing. -
#444 by mkirk on 01 Mar, 2006 04:43
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Orbiter Obvious - 28/2/2006 11:33 PM
Awesome!
Just want to understand why so many people really care about these ships just like they are part of the NASA family. Maybe it's an engineer thing.
While I am trying to get a second degree in engineering I am not technically an engineer...yet...but I can speek as a flyer and we always fall in love with our birds.
No matter what "crate" you fly or work on, it is the best flying machine ever created and the one the other guy flys or works on is piece of crap...this is true if you are talking about an F-15, a Cessna 152, a C-5, or God forbid...even a NAVY airplane;)
The thing I have noticed about being at and around NASA, compared to other places I have worked or abserved, is that everyone seems to really have a passion for what there doing that I have not seen in any other business. This carries over to the flight vehicles themselves, and while they are expensive national assets they are the focal point of your daily life and as such you start to think of them as living beings. So from what I have seen it is not just the crews and engineers, but the technicians, administrative folks, clerks, and just about anybody else you can think of.
Just my opinion.
Mark Kirkman -
#445 by Shuttle Scapegoat on 01 Mar, 2006 04:48
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Great images and for too long I've wanted these insights. Makes me feel more involved and if only we heard more of this because it's a reason to follow space flight, something those of us who don't know the first thing about engineering or space science can latch on to. It's more important than you all think and this thread says it all for me.
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#446 by Jim on 01 Mar, 2006 11:51
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Orbiter Obvious - 28/2/2006 11:33 PMAwesome!I asked this of some engineers before and it was very nice to see how they care about the Orbiters. I don't know what it's like simply being able to go into an Shuttle Orbiter, but do they all seem different, have their own quirks? Like Columbia was the older stateswoman and Endeavour's the youngster? Just want to understand why so many people really care about these ships just like they are part of the NASA family. Maybe it's an engineer thing.
I was always in the payload world, never worked on the orbiters, but worked in them and on things that flew in them.
When I was in the Air Force, we hated Columbia, she was heavy and inefficent. Only one DOD mission used her, otherwise all the others were on the newer "heavylifters". Once the DOD left the shuttle, it didn't matter and the superlightweight ET allowed Columbia to do a "DOD type" mission: AXAF.
When I worked for Boeing/Spacehab, you could tell some of the older Orbiters by how worn the paint was in the middeck and cockpit was. This was due to all the workers going in and out of the Orbiter. They were touch up, but you could see it.
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#447 by SimonShuttle on 01 Mar, 2006 12:57
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That's a great comment, Mark.
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#448 by Ender0319 on 01 Mar, 2006 13:34
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Pulled some drawings and the taped over switch on the far left of the picture is on panel A6 and belongs to the MADS (Modular Auxiliary Data System). The switch is for the "strain gage PCM ENA" which is some sort of enable switch for the pulse code modulation (PCM). I am no expert in the MADS but I do remember that is the gizmo that records instrumentation data about the orbiter and was helpful during the STS-107 investigation.
The two switches taped over on the right side of the picture belong to the A14 panel for the RMS/OMS Heaters. Those particular switches are for the Right Pod and are for system A and B.QuoteEnder0319 - 28/2/2006 9:05 PM
I'll have to pull out a drawing to see what the taped over switches do. I did not notice that the first time around. Good eyes! -
#449 by mkirk on 01 Mar, 2006 13:55
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Ender0319 - 1/3/2006 8:34 AM
Pulled some drawings and the taped over switch on the far left of the picture is on panel A6 and belongs to the MADS (Modular Auxiliary Data System). The switch is for the "strain gage PCM ENA" which is some sort of enable switch for the pulse code modulation (PCM). I am no expert in the MADS but I do remember that is the gizmo that records instrumentation data about the orbiter and was helpful during the STS-107 investigation.
The two switches taped over on the right side of the picture belong to the A14 panel for the RMS/OMS Heaters. Those particular switches are for the Right Pod and are for system A and B.
I am embarrassed to admit that when I saw that question last night last night I didn't know what that specific switch did, so thats why I just pointed out the OMS pod heaters. Its certainly not a swithc that gets used routinely during the dynamic flight phases.
It just goes to show you how complex the shuttle is and that you never stop learning...
Mark Kirkman -
#450 by mkirk on 01 Mar, 2006 14:03
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Jim - 1/3/2006 6:51 AM
When I worked for Boeing/Spacehab, you could tell some of the older Orbiters by how worn the paint was in the middeck and cockpit was. This was due to all the workers going in and out of the Orbiter. They were touch up, but you could see it.
Just to add to what Jim said: You can see a huge difference in the picture of the orbiter cockpit, even with all the covers, and the earlier pictures I posted from the simulator (around page 27 of this thread). The real cockpit from my perspective, and astronauts have said this many times, is in pristine condition compared to the simulators. The simulator is used almost all day long every day by astronauts, instructors, engineers and simulator technicians...all of this usage really shows. The most common observation is that the abort switch in the simulator is pretty much worn out...thankfully, in the real orbiter's it doesn't get used much (except during pre flight functional tests and ofcourse the one real abort to orbit on STS-51F back in the early 80's)
Mark Kirkman -
#451 by Jim on 01 Mar, 2006 14:34
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mkirk - 1/3/2006 9:03 AM
QuoteJim - 1/3/2006 6:51 AMWhen I worked for Boeing/Spacehab, you could tell some of the older Orbiters by how worn the paint was in the middeck and cockpit was. This was due to all the workers going in and out of the Orbiter. They were touch up, but you could see it.
Just to add to what Jim said: You can see a huge difference in the picture of the orbiter cockpit, even with all the covers, and the earlier pictures I posted from the simulator (around page 27 of this thread). The real cockpit from my perspective, and astronauts have said this many times, is in pristine condition compared to the simulators. The simulator is used almost all day long every day by astronauts, instructors, engineers and simulator technicians...all of this usage really shows. The most common observation is that the abort switch in the simulator is pretty much worn out...thankfully, in the real orbiter's it doesn't get used much (except during pre flight functional tests and ofcourse the one real abort to orbit on STS-51F back in the early 80's)Mark Kirkman
Somemore to add. It is very rare to see the middeck and cockpit in flight configuration. Most of the time, all seats are removed except the CDR and PLT, all middeck lockers, all sleep stations, the airlock is empty. Depending on orientation, the floors or aft walls and WCS have GSE covers on them. Electrical and comm lines are strung through the hatch to provide power for the GSE lights and comm boxes for the workers inside. An air duct blows cool air through the hatch (just like the ones for manholes). I believe 7 is the max number of people allowed inside (10 with a Spacelab/hab attached) There is one last fixture. Anytime the Obiter is powered, there is a specialized technician onboard, the SCO (Spacecraft operator). He is the only one allowed to throw switches onboard.
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#452 by British NASA on 01 Mar, 2006 18:57
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More images like that Mark and I'll be a happy man
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#453 by rsp1202 on 01 Mar, 2006 20:22
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I always wondered who the techs were that got to sit in the pilots' seats during ground tests.
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#454 by braddock on 01 Mar, 2006 20:27
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I'm curious to find out if the CEV is going to take the traditional 1000 switch cockpit approach, or if they will take the plunge into fully computerized glass interfaces.
Frankly, I hope they don't go overboard, because in many ways, nothing beats a switch. -
#455 by Jim on 01 Mar, 2006 20:47
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braddock - 1/3/2006 3:27 PMI'm curious to find out if the CEV is going to take the traditional 1000 switch cockpit approach, or if they will take the plunge into fully computerized glass interfaces.Frankly, I hope they don't go overboard, because in many ways, nothing beats a switch.
It will be a combination of both. There is always a need for a circuit breaker. I see glass cockpit for display and configuring non critical system. Switches and circuit breakers etc for critical systems.
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#456 by mkirk on 01 Mar, 2006 22:20
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Jim - 1/3/2006 3:47 PM
Quotebraddock - 1/3/2006 3:27 PMI'm curious to find out if the CEV is going to take the traditional 1000 switch cockpit approach, or if they will take the plunge into fully computerized glass interfaces.Frankly, I hope they don't go overboard, because in many ways, nothing beats a switch.
It will be a combination of both. There is always a need for a circuit breaker. I see glass cockpit for display and configuring non critical system. Switches and circuit breakers etc for critical systems.
I'll see if I can post some pictures of the "notional" cockpit layouts on the CEV thread. Basically Jim is right the multifuction displays allow a lot of flexibility but there will also be some of the traditional style knobs, breakers, and gauges.
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#457 by Martin FL on 02 Mar, 2006 00:52
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Did the RMS area get an upgrade like the flight deck area with the glass cockpit?
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#458 by Jim on 02 Mar, 2006 01:03
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Martin FL - 1/3/2006 7:52 PMDid the RMS area get an upgrade like the flight deck area with the glass cockpit?
The mechanical attitude indicator (8-ball) (upper left) was upgraded to a flat screen display, similar to the forward cockpit. Also the CRT on the far left (out of photo) was upgraded to. So 11 total displays were added for the MEDS upgrade.
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#459 by Martin FL on 02 Mar, 2006 02:26
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That answers my question, I'm greatful!
You know, I don't think I've ever been able to ask questions and get accurate answers almost immediately in seven years following the program on the internet. This is great.
