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#140
by
UK Shuttle Clan
on 29 Nov, 2005 19:42
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Do all the new ETs coming from MAF to KSC have the new or old diffuser?
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#141
by
darkenfast
on 01 Dec, 2005 10:05
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Questions: What happens at the pad after the lift-off of a Shuttle? How soon do people go to the pad, and who is closest to it at lift-off? Is there much damage caused by each launch? And finally, do the exhaust plumes from the SRB's cause any concern after a launch?
Most coverage naturally follows the vehicle, so I've always been curious about the conditions at the pad immediately following a lift-off. Thanks!
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#142
by
Spacely
on 01 Dec, 2005 16:08
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Apologies if this has been asked before...
How often do they repaint the Shuttles? In some launch pad pics, they're gleaming white; in others, they're pretty dirty.
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#143
by
Rocket Guy
on 01 Dec, 2005 17:15
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They're not painted :-)
But seriously, to learn about it, the Shuttle's are 100% covered in tiles (all the black and gray; the gray is RCC panel) and thermal blankets (most of the white). They have replaced much of what used to be white tiling with white thermal blankets; and in addition, they replace tiles and blankets after missions if they took enough wear and tear such that they need to be.
Up close the Orbiters always look pretty dirty from their many years of use and reentry heating. Only the newly added tiles and blankets may appear to gleam. New tiles have a hard semigloss coating on the outside which can shine in the sun.
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#144
by
Spacely
on 01 Dec, 2005 17:45
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Huh. I had no idea. So they never even give them a good scrubbing? You'd think somebody would at least take a sponge to them, with all the time they spend in drydock between flights.
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#145
by
SimonShuttle
on 01 Dec, 2005 17:57
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Especially after landing on a dust strip, they'd have to get all the dust out?
Imagine a boy scout in Florida asking if there's any cars that want washing for $2s and they point at a dirty 100 foot long space ship
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#146
by
Chris Bergin
on 01 Dec, 2005 18:53
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UK Shuttle Clan - 29/11/2005 8:42 PM
Do all the new ETs coming from MAF to KSC have the new or old diffuser?
MAF guy says they are sticking with the old one (single weave), but he's checking. Will update that later.
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#147
by
Shuttle Scapegoat
on 01 Dec, 2005 19:54
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Ben - 1/12/2005 12:15 PM
They're not painted :-)
But seriously, to learn about it, the Shuttle's are 100% covered in tiles (all the black and gray; the gray is RCC panel) and thermal blankets (most of the white). They have replaced much of what used to be white tiling with white thermal blankets; and in addition, they replace tiles and blankets after missions if they took enough wear and tear such that they need to be.
Up close the Orbiters always look pretty dirty from their many years of use and reentry heating. Only the newly added tiles and blankets may appear to gleam. New tiles have a hard semigloss coating on the outside which can shine in the sun.
Thanks, I always through they had been painted black and white!
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#148
by
DaveS
on 01 Dec, 2005 19:55
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What was the reason to go with the double-weaved diffuser in the first place? Was there anything wrong with the flight-proven single-weave one?
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#149
by
Martin FL
on 02 Dec, 2005 17:27
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#150
by
Rocket Nut
on 19 Dec, 2005 00:17
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Do Shuttles Dream - 16/10/2005 11:22 PM
Chris Bergin - 16/10/2005 3:32 PM
Orbiter Obvious - 16/10/2005 9:24 PM
Would it be ok to ask for some of the likes of MECO to be explained in the words those letters stand for?
Sometimes you'll see it mentioned, such as MECO, just got to look out for it and associate. However, here's a few reeled off (one's you might see a lot of around these parts) as reference.
STS = Space Transportation System
ET = External Tank
OV = Orbiter Vehicle (such as OV-103 is Discovery, 04 is Atlantis, O5 is Endeavour)
SRB = Solid Rocket Booster
OMS = Orbital Maneuvering System
RCS = Reaction Control System
MPL = Mobile Launch Platform (Rides on the Crawler Transporter, Shuttle Stack goes on top of the MLP).
VAB = Vehicle Assembly Building
MECO = Main Engine Cut Off
SSME = Space Shuttle Main Engine
MAF = Michoud Assembly Facility
MSFC = Marshall Space Flight Center
KSC = Kennedy Space Center
RLV = Reusable Launch Vehicle
LOX = Liquid Oxygen
LH2 = Liquid Hyrogen
ECO = Engine Cut Out (sensor)
If anymore pop into my head, or the question is asked, I'll edit and add here.
Thanks. Most message boards laugh you off the forum for not knowing all that.
Sorry for the long quote, couldn't cut it down without killing the context...
When I started working on my first NASA contract, the first thing my boss gave me was a book of NASA acronyms. Hundreds of pages of acronyms. It was months before I was able to communicate comfortably with some of the NASA people. Now, I can think in acronyms. If I have to translate it into the individual words, it is more difficult. For example, if someone says SSME, I see in my mind the actual hardware. It would take me longer to break it down into Space Shuttle Main Engine. When I see the hardware, it is the SSME...not the Space Shuttle Main Engine. It's like learning a foreign language...pretty soon, you begin to think in that new language.
I have seen lots of documentation that has sentences where the majority of words were acronyms. Some of the acronyms were composed of several acronyms within the acronym. I can't really come up with any off the top of my head right now. I still have that acronym book around here somewhere...
Cheers,
Larry
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#151
by
RoadRunner
on 19 Dec, 2005 08:15
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(Please excuse the multiple posting of this question. "Space101" suggests that this is the correct place to get this question answered...)
What is the meaning of the term "Press" as in "Press to MECO", "Single engine Press 104", etc ?
I know that MECO = Main Engine CutOff. I know that the calls are the various boundaries between abort or operational modes, but what I am unsure of is the meaning of "Press". Is this an instruction to the orbiter crew to press a button ? Or is it short for "Pressure" ?
I'm asking this because it appears to me that MECO doesn't happen immediately following the "Press to MECO" call... and I've never heard the call "Press to throttle up". It seems to me that "Press" means something specific, other than "Okay crew, push this button..."
Am I just daft ?
The RoadRunner..
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#152
by
DaveS
on 19 Dec, 2005 08:36
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"Press to MECO" is sually called up to crew in form of "Single engine press to MECO". This means that in the event of two engine failures, the orbiter has gained sufficent energy to continue to the planned MECO trajectory on the single available engine. "2 engines TAL" means that the orbiter has gained sufficent energy to perform a Transocenic Abort Landing using only two engines if needed.
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#153
by
Stardust9906
on 19 Dec, 2005 09:48
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Press to MECO means that the vehicle can still reach the planned MECO should one engine fail.
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#154
by
RoadRunner
on 19 Dec, 2005 10:30
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Stardust9906 - 19/12/2005 10:48 AM
Press to MECO means that the vehicle can still reach the planned MECO should one engine fail.
Yeah cheers, but it doesn't really help me much.. I've a basic idea as to what each of the boundary calls refers to. It's this word 'Press' which I am querying. I apologise for any ambiguity in my original post as I was trying to make that point clear.
I have since found an explanation which I will paste here and reference.
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104% is the "nominal" engine setting used now (and why it's > 100% is a story for another time...). "Press" is used as in "press on..." which for the non-english as a first language speakers is a phrase meaning "continue".
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Found:
http://orbit.m6.net/v2/read.asp?id=25471This sounds plausible, sort of. Press (on) to MECO, Press (on) to ATO - Yeah, makes sense.
Single engine press (on) to 104 ?? Not really.
Can anyone confirm or deny this explanation and give me a solid reference ?
Thanks.
The RoadRunner..
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#155
by
DaveS
on 19 Dec, 2005 10:40
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That is a correct explanation of what "Press to MECO" means.
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#156
by
psloss
on 19 Dec, 2005 11:26
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Apologies for not knowing if this is already posted/referenced here -- I'm a newbie -- but there's a countdown document laden with TLAs (three letter acronyms) here:
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/countdown/count.htmlIt's a bit old and heavily edited, but still somewhat useful for following the last parts of a shuttle count...
Philip Sloss
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#157
by
psloss
on 19 Dec, 2005 11:40
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RoadRunner - 19/12/2005 6:30 AM
Can anyone confirm or deny this explanation and give me a solid reference ?
This site was referred to in the link you posted; it's the best overall ascent reference I've found on the Internet:
http://www.theandyzone.com/launchzone/launchzone.htm(The calls you refer to are similar in nature, but indicate different engine failure modes: "press to ATO" implies a single engine failure while "single engine press..." implies a two-engine failure.)
(Edit: saw your original post...the throttle up call is "go at throttle up" and is made after the engines have throttled up. The "press" calls are somewhat anticipatory in their syntax but used to indicate abort boundaries.)
Philip Sloss
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#158
by
RedSky
on 19 Dec, 2005 11:50
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RoadRunner - 19/12/2005 5:30 AM
Stardust9906 - 19/12/2005 10:48 AM
Press to MECO means that the vehicle can still reach the planned MECO should one engine fail.
It's this word 'Press' which I am querying. I apologise for any ambiguity in my original post as I was trying to make that point clear.
I have since found an explanation which I will paste here and reference.
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"Press" is used as in "press on..." which for the non-english as a first language speakers is a phrase meaning "continue".
------------------
This sounds plausible, sort of. Press (on) to MECO, Press (on) to ATO - Yeah, makes sense.
Single engine press (on) to 104 ?? Not really.
Can anyone confirm or deny this explanation and give me a solid reference ?
Thanks.
The RoadRunner..
You got it right regarding "press" as being a shortened form of the english term "press on", basically meaning to continue. However, there is a slight added connotation: To say "press on" implies to continue through some form of adversity, e.g. through some situation that wasn' t as expected and is making things more difficult to accomplish the goal.
The exact meaning of all these launch abort "calls" are all well known to the crew, since they are from a script marking time points (well, required energy points in the ascent) and are not improvised or made up each time. A lot of implied words might be missing to keep it short. Sometimes, watching or listening to a launch, the NASA announcer will sort of interpret these calls for the viewing audience.
I haven't found a reference regarding the other abort call you mentioned, but is it really "... press to 104", or simply "Single engine press 104"? I recall the accouncer saying the meaning of this was:
Single engine press (on) (to MECO) (with full rated thrust of) 104 (% ).
Since from the earlier calls... we know that the "to MECO" is still implied, but dropped now to keep the call short. The "104" is basically adding the whole concept of: "the goal (a safe orbital velocity) can still be reached with that single remaining engine AS LONG AS it runs at its full rated thrust of 104 percent".
(as to why full thrust is 104% instead of 100%... that's a whole story in itself).
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#159
by
Chris Bergin
on 19 Dec, 2005 12:22
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psloss - 19/12/2005 12:40 PM
(Edit: saw your original post...the throttle up call is "go at throttle up" and is made after the engines have throttled up. The "press" calls are somewhat anticipatory in their syntax but used to indicate abort boundaries.)
I'm glad this has been mentioned - for years it caught me out.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=656&start=1 - is on the flight deck of Endeavour and you can hear the crew calls, such as "Feels good", as she throttles, then the confirmation, then the call from Houston "Endeavour, go at Throttle Up".
