Shuttle Questions Q & A (Part 3)

#600 by APG85 on 15 Jul, 2007 20:43
Where can I find pictures of Space Shuttle Challenger undergoing processing, Lifting in the VAB, etc.? I've googled it but all that turns up are the typical 51L images. Thanks.
#601 by Thorny on 15 Jul, 2007 21:13
Quote
APG85 - 15/7/2007 3:43 PM

Where can I find pictures of Space Shuttle Challenger undergoing processing, Lifting in the VAB, etc.? I've googled it but all that turns up are the typical 51L images. Thanks.

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/browse.jsp

Browse each of Challenger's flights...

STS-6, STS-7, STS-8, STS-41B, STS-41C, STS-41G, STS-51B, STS-51F, STS-61A, STS-51L

These are ancient, poorly-scanned 640x480 images, alas. Probably haven't been updated since the first Bush presidency... But they're better than nothing.

At least this search system works. The Great NASA Images and NASA Image Exchange search features are useless (type STS-6 and you also get all the missions in the STS 60's plus whole lot of other things that have no discernible link to STS-6.)
#602 by tesheiner on 20 Jul, 2007 07:18
This is from the STS-122 (LON-322) Processing Latest thread:

Quote
Jim - 20/7/2007 3:20 AM

Quote
C5C6 - 19/7/2007 9:15 PM

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images//small/07pd1873-s.jpg

looking at that picture, that worker is inside a SRB segment? that black thick ring is propellant? and the purple ring? i'm clueless.......

yes, yes and insulation

Q: What happens to that insulation layer?
1. Removed during stacking?
2. Burned at launch?
3. Others?
#603 by GLS on 20 Jul, 2007 09:55
Quote
tesheiner - 20/7/2007 8:18 AM

This is from the STS-122 (LON-322) Processing Latest thread:

Quote
Jim - 20/7/2007 3:20 AM

Quote
C5C6 - 19/7/2007 9:15 PM

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images//small/07pd1873-s.jpg

looking at that picture, that worker is inside a SRB segment? that black thick ring is propellant? and the purple ring? i'm clueless.......

yes, yes and insulation

Q: What happens to that insulation layer?
1. Removed during stacking?
2. Burned at launch?
3. Others?

I think that's called inhibitor. If you ask me, that thing is there to hold the propelant inside the case....
The insulation is between the propelant and the case.
#604 by Jim on 20 Jul, 2007 11:24
Quote
GLS - 20/7/2007 5:55 AM

Quote
tesheiner - 20/7/2007 8:18 AM

This is from the STS-122 (LON-322) Processing Latest thread:

Quote
Jim - 20/7/2007 3:20 AM

Quote
C5C6 - 19/7/2007 9:15 PM

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/kscpao/images//small/07pd1873-s.jpg

looking at that picture, that worker is inside a SRB segment? that black thick ring is propellant? and the purple ring? i'm clueless.......

yes, yes and insulation

Q: What happens to that insulation layer?
1. Removed during stacking?
2. Burned at launch?
3. Others?

I think that's called inhibitor. If you ask me, that thing is there to hold the propelant inside the case....
The insulation is between the propelant and the case.
It is inhibitor and it is used to control the burn rate vs holding the propellant
#605 by brahmanknight on 20 Jul, 2007 17:39
John2375 said "...STS-2, which I was reading he flew the entry profile manually, first and only time it's ever been done..."

Is this true? I thought the shuttle could not be manually flown during entry?
#606 by Jorge on 20 Jul, 2007 17:59
Quote
brahmanknight - 20/7/2007 12:39 PM

John2375 said "...STS-2, which I was reading he flew the entry profile manually, first and only time it's ever been done..."

Is this true? I thought the shuttle could not be manually flown during entry?

It is true. The orbiter can be flown manually, and Joe Engle did it. Mind you, the stick inputs still go through the computers.
#607 by psloss on 20 Jul, 2007 18:31
Quote
Jorge - 20/7/2007 1:59 PM

It is true. The orbiter can be flown manually, and Joe Engle did it. Mind you, the stick inputs still go through the computers.
Here's a link to one of Mary Shafer Iliff's Usenet posts on this -- discussing with Jorge :
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.shuttle/browse_thread/thread/e4d8d161cf7df5d2/e4dd1f7adcfe65b6?#e4dd1f7adcfe65b6

Edit: actually, here's another one from a couple years earlier, that's also quite good:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.shuttle/browse_thread/thread/fa20b9938ef79c3a/953f9cd84f56ac5c?#953f9cd84f56ac5c
#608 by Danny Dot on 20 Jul, 2007 19:07
Quote
brahmanknight - 20/7/2007 12:39 PM

John2375 said "...STS-2, which I was reading he flew the entry profile manually, first and only time it's ever been done..."

Is this true? I thought the shuttle could not be manually flown during entry?

While the stick inputs go through a rate commanded Digital Autopilot, the shuttle handles very well throughout an entire entry. Download my Deger Dots simulation at http://www.dannydeger.net and see for yourself.

I never heard of STS-2 flying the entry manually. I would be surprised if it was, but then STS-2 was well before my time.

Danny Deger
#609 by psloss on 20 Jul, 2007 19:26
To add, sort of, here's a link to the Iliff and Shafer paper, "Extraction of Stability and Control Derivatives From Orbiter Flight Data":
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88294main_H-1912.pdf
#610 by APG85 on 21 Jul, 2007 22:06
Quote
Thorny - 15/7/2007 5:13 PM

Quote
APG85 - 15/7/2007 3:43 PM

Where can I find pictures of Space Shuttle Challenger undergoing processing, Lifting in the VAB, etc.? I've googled it but all that turns up are the typical 51L images. Thanks.

http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/luceneweb/browse.jsp

Browse each of Challenger's flights...

STS-6, STS-7, STS-8, STS-41B, STS-41C, STS-41G, STS-51B, STS-51F, STS-61A, STS-51L

These are ancient, poorly-scanned 640x480 images, alas. Probably haven't been updated since the first Bush presidency... But they're better than nothing.

At least this search system works. The Great NASA Images and NASA Image Exchange search features are useless (type STS-6 and you also get all the missions in the STS 60's plus whole lot of other things that have no discernible link to STS-6.)

Thanks. I looked through that and found almost nothing (one picture of her entering the OPF). It seems strange that no pictures exist of Challenger in the OPF or VAB - at least none that I can find on-line...
#611 by Thorny on 22 Jul, 2007 16:23
Quote
APG85 - 21/7/2007 5:06 PM
Thanks. I looked through that and found almost nothing (one picture of her entering the OPF). It seems strange that no pictures exist of Challenger in the OPF or VAB - at least none that I can find on-line...

Here are a few...

STS-8 (note: date should be 07.26.1983)
http://nix.ksc.nasa.gov/info;jsessionid=20r9da9xy6ng0?id=S83-39144&orgid=8

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_US/shuttle/1981-85/1983%20STS8%20payload%20PCR.jpg

STS-41B
http://images.jsc.nasa.gov/lores/S84-25872.jpg

STS-51F
http://nix.ksc.nasa.gov/info;jsessionid=20r9da9xy6ng0?id=S85-28697&orgid=8

STS-61A
http://nix.ksc.nasa.gov/info;jsessionid=20r9da9xy6ng0?id=S85-43138&orgid=8

Remember that in the OPF, the Orbiter is enshrouded in work platforms and even when it isn't, the OPFs aren't large enough to easily get shots of the entire Orbiter without fisheye lenses. So good photos are hard to come by and what is available is more of a close-up technical nature., not something the PAO thinks the general public is interested in.
#612 by APG85 on 23 Jul, 2007 11:04
Thanks! Thats more than I've been able to find. Have you seen any of Challenger in the VAB?
#613 by psloss on 23 Jul, 2007 11:26
Quote
APG85 - 23/7/2007 7:04 AM

Thanks! Thats more than I've been able to find. Have you seen any of Challenger in the VAB?
The 41-B image that Thorny posted the link for is in the VAB.
#614 by APG85 on 23 Jul, 2007 22:03
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psloss - 23/7/2007 7:26 AM

Quote
APG85 - 23/7/2007 7:04 AM

Thanks! Thats more than I've been able to find. Have you seen any of Challenger in the VAB?
The 41-B image that Thorny posted the link for is in the VAB.

Oops, you are correct. I still would hope there are many more images out there...
#615 by psloss on 23 Jul, 2007 22:16
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APG85 - 23/7/2007 6:03 PM

Oops, you are correct. I still would hope there are many more images out there...
Probably a bigger issue is both what is still available in their archives and also, importantly, what kind of human resources are available to re-publish photos.
#616 by khdrummer on 24 Jul, 2007 00:20
Does anyone know about how long after ET Sep does the ET re-enter?
#617 by DaveS on 24 Jul, 2007 00:27
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khdrummer - 24/7/2007 2:20 AM

Does anyone know about how long after ET Sep does the ET re-enter?
Around 40-50 minutes, depending on trajectory.
#618 by brahmanknight on 25 Jul, 2007 14:31
What is this on the top of the aft payload bay wall? Is that a Grapple Fixture for the RMS?
#619 by Jim on 25 Jul, 2007 14:52
An EVA winch for closing the payload bay doors