Author Topic: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025  (Read 4041 times)

Offline gongora

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SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« on: 06/28/2024 12:26 am »
Discussion thread for the launch of Meteosat MTG-S1

3800kg to GTO



https://twitter.com/alexphysics13/status/1806446455097643176

Quote
Looks like another European satellite went from Ariane 6 to SpaceX's Falcon 9. In this case this one is the second satellite of Europe's latest generation of geostationary weather satellites.

It’s the Eumetsat Meteosat MTG-S1 satellite:

https://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2024/06/27/severe-deconvenue-pour-ariane-6-une-agence-europeenne-annule-un-contrat_6244812_1650684.html (French)

https://www-lemonde-fr.translate.goog/sciences/article/2024/06/27/severe-deconvenue-pour-ariane-6-une-agence-europeenne-annule-un-contrat_6244812_1650684.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp (English translation)
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 04:38 pm by gongora »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1
« Reply #1 on: 06/28/2024 06:59 am »
Launch seems to be early next year.

"The satellite was not planned to board the first flight of Ariane-6, but in the third, which will take place at the beginning of 2025, that is to say in six months."
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline vaporcobra

Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1
« Reply #2 on: 06/28/2024 10:28 am »
I believe the "Q1 2025" target was specifically related to Ariane 6 scheduling, and may have already slipped to NET Q3 2025 per EUMETSAT's website.

Per an OHB executive, MTG-S1 successfully completed all functional testing in May. And per an ESA engineer, the MTG-S1 team also completed what I believe is a series of simulated operational tests in April.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ian-bennett-70118910_mtg-s1-testing-completed-today-the-activity-7196946668791943170-XJDA/

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7187850675450499073/

For context, the first 3rd-gen Meteosat (MTG-I1) completed the same tests in
a similar sequence with similar timing, shipped to the launch site ~10 weeks after, and launched ~5 months after. If SpaceX is willing to sacrifice a Starlink mission, MTG-S1 could potentially launch just a few months from now, and almost certainly before the end of 2024.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 10:51 am by vaporcobra »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1
« Reply #3 on: 06/28/2024 12:39 pm »
Could you imagine NOAA launching a GOES satellite on Ariane 6 of H3?
I'm against rules forcing European institutional payloads to launch on European launchers.
IGO EUMETSAT requires reliable launchers to launch their vital weather satellites. They didn't want to be the payload on the maiden launch of Ariane 64. Ariane 6 hasn't proven itself.
So they the launch is diverted to the only proven launcher with available launch slots. Falcon 9.
Most likely the launch costs more than when the Ariane 64 was used with a dual payload GTO launch.
But reliability and correct launch timing are more important than cost.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 12:44 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1
« Reply #4 on: 06/28/2024 04:01 pm »
Press release by EUMETSAT.
Meteosat satellite be launched spacex

Quote
Published on
28 June 2024

During the Council meeting which took place on 26-27 June 2024 the EUMETSAT member states, in line with the organisation’s convention, reiterated their support to European industrial technologies and the objective to maintain an independent access to space for Europe.

MTG-S1 is a unique masterpiece of European technology. This first European sounding satellite in a geostationary orbit will bring a revolution for weather forecasting and climate monitoring in Europe and Africa, and make it possible, for the first time, to observe the full lifecycle of a convective storm from space. Its launch will ensure that national weather services can benefit from new and more accurate data to protect lives, properties and infrastructures.

As such, the EUMETSAT member states decided to award a launch service contract to SpaceX for the launch of the Meteosat Third Generation-Sounder 1 (MTG-S1) satellite on a Falcon 9 rocket in 2025.

“This decision was driven by exceptional circumstances” explains EUMETSAT Director-General Phil Evans. “It does not compromise our standard policy of supporting European partners, and we look forward to a successful SpaceX launch for this masterpiece of European technology.”
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 04:37 pm by gongora »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #5 on: 06/28/2024 04:44 pm »
Also the CEO of CNES (France Space Agency) was a little bit upset about the MTG-S1 launch swap from Ariane 6 to Falcon 9. So he wrote a linkedin post

Quote
It looks like EUMETSAT has decided to launch Meteosat MTG-S1 on a spacex falcon 9 instead of Ariane 6. This is quite a brutal change as the flight was supposed to take place very soon.

Clearly, today is a very disappointing day for European space efforts.

The technical conditions were met for a launch on Ariane 6 and the launcher was indeed available. I am impatiently waiting to understand what reasons could have led Eumetsat to such a decision, at a time where all major European space countries as well as the European Commission are calling for launching european satellites on European launchers ! Not mentioning the fact that we are 10 days away from the maiden flight of Ariane 6.

How far will we, Europeans, go in our naivety?

This illustrates, once again, the ardent need for strong European coordination on space. It is time for the European Commission to take the necessary measures so that all European institutional satellites are launched on small and large European launchers.

I disagree with the CEO of CNES. Pis por performance by the European launch industry should be punnished, not promoted. EUMETSAT has the responisbility to arrange a timely and reliable launch service for their weather satellites. Clearly timing and or reliability were in question. So they are obliged to arrange another launch.
This was very clearly stated when EUMETSAT ordered launch services for MetopSG and MTG.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 04:56 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline alugobi

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Offline GWR64

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1
« Reply #7 on: 06/28/2024 06:39 pm »
Launch seems to be early next year.

"The satellite was not planned to board the first flight of Ariane-6, but in the third, which will take place at the beginning of 2025, that is to say in six months."

If an A64 GTO was actually planned for the 3rd Ariane 6 launch ( early 2025 ??? ), I don't know which satellite was supposed
to be paired with MTG-S1. The Ariane 64 only has a few payloads for the GTO.
I think scheduling and pairing problems are the reason for the switch to the Falcon-9.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 06:51 pm by GWR64 »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #8 on: 06/28/2024 07:16 pm »
EUMETSAT only moved one of four satellite launches from Ariane 6. MTG-I2, Metop-SG A1 & Metop-SG B1 are still planned on Ariane 6 launches planned for 2025 to 2026.
MTG-S1 is just to valuable to launch on the first Ariane 64. EUMETSAT can't justify taking that risk.
The Metop-SG satellites were planned to launch on Soyuz-ST, but because Russia invaded Ukraine, Soyuz-ST launches ended. So EUMETSAT accepted a lot more risk for Metop-SG.
Also the Galileo launches by SpaceX were planned for Soyuz-ST.

Offline RedLineTrain

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #9 on: 06/28/2024 08:46 pm »
What was the satellite that was paired with this?  It must have been a big one to require the A64 configuration.  I wonder if it will be a challenge to find a replacement for MTG-S1 on that launch.

In any event, this does make clear that a institutional requirement to launch on A6 may be more challenging than hoped.  The membership of many of these European organizations differs from others.  Hard to harmonize interests.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 08:49 pm by RedLineTrain »

Offline ugordan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #10 on: 06/28/2024 10:45 pm »
What was the satellite that was paired with this?  It must have been a big one to require the A64 configuration.

This launch was to be the first A6 flight with 4 boosters. If someone was concerned about the risk of an unflown configuration and if it really had dual payloads manifested, they could have fallen back to a 2 booster option and just flown this payload. I suspect there's more to this story than that.

In any event, this does make clear that a institutional requirement to launch on A6 may be more challenging than hoped.

This may be the case, but only until A6 proves itself. When that happens, I fully expect all such future launches will go to A6 by default.

Right now, from a risk/reliability standpoint, EUMETSAT's decision does make sense. The pushback from CNES is interesting, considering they didn't raise such a big stink when a Galileo launch switched to F9. Strikes me as more of a case of bruised pride than anything else.
« Last Edit: 06/28/2024 10:52 pm by ugordan »

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #11 on: 06/29/2024 07:14 am »
https://twitter.com/aschbacherjosef/status/1806932966276305391

Quote
Surprising decision by @eumetsat to launch with SpaceX Falcon 9 instead of Ariane 6, not waiting for the inaugural flight before making their launch service decision. It's difficult to understand, especially as Ariane 6 is well on track for its 9 July inaugural flight, with all proceeding nominally. Plans still target one more launch in 2024 and the ramp-up of Ariane 6 has not changed, except now for the loss of MTG-S1. The end of the launcher crisis is within reach. Now is the time for Europe to support autonomous access to space, which is on the horizon.

Offline GWR64

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #12 on: 06/29/2024 07:55 am »
What was the satellite that was paired with this?  It must have been a big one to require the A64 configuration.

This launch was to be the first A6 flight with 4 boosters. If someone was concerned about the risk of an unflown configuration and if it really had dual payloads manifested, they could have fallen back to a 2 booster option and just flown this payload. I suspect there's more to this story than that.

In any event, this does make clear that a institutional requirement to launch on A6 may be more challenging than hoped.

This may be the case, but only until A6 proves itself. When that happens, I fully expect all such future launches will go to A6 by default.

Right now, from a risk/reliability standpoint, EUMETSAT's decision does make sense. The pushback from CNES is interesting, considering they didn't raise such a big stink when a Galileo launch switched to F9. Strikes me as more of a case of bruised pride than anything else.

Maybe Eumetsat tried to get a single launch on an Ariane 62. Then it wouldn't be a first launch.
But that's not SpaceX, it's Arianespace: it will be more expensive, it won't go as quickly, everyone will come along later and want it that way.
As I wrote, I don't see a co-passengers for an A64 GTO launch in early 2025.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #13 on: 06/29/2024 10:58 am »
What was the satellite that was paired with this?  It must have been a big one to require the A64 configuration.  I wonder if it will be a challenge to find a replacement for MTG-S1 on that launch

Very likely the main payload for the launch, where MTG-S1 would be the secondary payload, has long been launched. (by SpaceX). Looking back at the Arianespace launch schedule on NSF, Eutelsat 36D has been planned for a long time besides MTG-S1.
I also thought Eutelsat initially wanted to launch Eutelsat 10B on Ariane 6. And Hotbird  13F and 13G as well.
Intelsat has planned Ariane 6 launch services for IS-41 + IS-44 and IS-45. But both launches were repurposed. Afaik the IS41 & IS44 launch used to be for Galaxy 37.
This EUMETSAT MTG-S1 launch transition is just still the consequence of being four years late on the development of Ariane 6.
« Last Edit: 06/29/2024 11:35 am by Rik ISS-fan »

Online zubenelgenubi

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #14 on: 06/30/2024 05:04 pm »
Launch when in 2025?
https://www.eumetsat.int/planned-launches
Quote
MTG-S1        -  Jul 2025-Sep 2025
Sentinel-6B  -  Nov 2025
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Offline StraumliBlight

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #15 on: 07/12/2024 11:07 pm »


Quote
The photograph shows the first Meteosat Third Generation Sounder (MTG-S1) satellite in the acoustic chamber. Here it was placed on an enormous shaker to simulate the vibrations of launch, followed by an acoustic test where it was exposed to more than 140 dB, mimicking the noise during rocket ignition and engine burns.

Weather satellite passes bake and shake tests with flying colours [July 15]

Quote
With liftoff slated for next year, the satellite has endured more than seven months of rigorous testing at IABG’s facilities near Munich in Germany to ensure that it can withstand the launch and the harsh environment being 36,000 km above Earth’s equator, from where it will operate for at least 10 years.

Unlike the classical ‘shake & bake’ approach, the MTG-S1 environmental test campaign followed a ‘bake & shake’ sequence.

This means that the satellite was first subjected to a thermal vacuum test, which entails the whole satellite being placed in a huge vacuum chamber for three weeks and exposed to extreme temperatures, ranging from –180˚C to +250˚C.

After emerging unscathed, the satellite faced the ‘shake’ part of the campaign. This included a vibration test on an enormous shaker to simulate the juddering of launch, followed by an acoustic test where it was exposed to more than 140 dB, mimicking the noise of rocket ignition and engine burns.

The satellite was in ‘launch configuration’ for both of these tests, meaning that its deployable parts, like its solar arrays and antennas, were folded up. It was also loaded with harmless fluid, as opposed to real propellants, to match its launch weight.

Naturally, engineers seized the opportunity to verify the satellite's actual mass properties, including its weight and centre of mass. The predictions proved accurate, with the weight coming in at just over 3.8 tonnes as anticipated.

After the bake and shake tests, a comprehensive set of functional tests were carried out. These included verifying that the mechanisms work correctly for deployable units, as well as for the internal mechanisms essential for instrument operation.
« Last Edit: 07/15/2024 05:06 pm by StraumliBlight »

Offline bolun

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #16 on: 07/17/2024 01:39 pm »
MTG-S patch

The MTG-Sounder complements the MTG-Imagers in the full Meteosat Third Generation system.

Working alongside MTG-I partner satellites, the MTG-S satellite will not only be used to further improve atmospheric observations for weather forecasting, but thanks to the Sentinel-4 UVN instrument, it will also deliver information every hour to monitor air quality and pollution over Europe.

https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2024/07/MTG-S_patch

Image credit: ESA

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Re: SpaceX F9 : MTG-S1 : Florida : 2025
« Reply #17 on: 07/24/2024 04:31 am »
Cross-post; was VA264:
SN Europe sees Ariane 6 launch as an end to its “launcher crisis” [Jul 23, Jeff Foust]
Quote
<snip>
The next flight after CSO was to carry a geostationary weather satellite called MTG-S1 for Eumetsat, but that agency announced last month it would launch the satellite instead on a Falcon 9, a move that surprised and disappointed European space officials like [Josef Aschbacher, ESA director general]. He said he talked with Eumetsat officials at the Ariane 6 launch but got no indication that the agency would backtrack after the success of the inaugural flight. He noted Eumetsat’s decision, coming a couple weeks before the launch, was tied to the agency’s schedule of twice-yearly council meetings.

“We’re looking at different options” for a replacement payload for the launch that was to fly MTG-S1. “We have one option in particular in mind,” he added, but did not disclose it.
<snip>
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