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#560
by
Vettedrmr
on 14 Jun, 2024 17:26
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Do these sound like things that would cause a departure delay of 4 days?
Is there a possibility that there is deeper concern causing the delay but they don't want to say anything yet so saying some easy things to say like some additional hatch operations and repeat safe haven testing or is that a crazy conspiracy theory?
No way to know, but my interpretation is that there were some earlier tests that, for whatever reason, weren't as smooth as they expected. I bet that if you went back to DM-2's flight there were several tests that were re-run, but we didn't hear much about them because they were on-station so much longer.
I would think if there was some concern about re-entry they would shorten the mission, not extend it. Weather could also play a factor.
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#561
by
meekGee
on 14 Jun, 2024 17:45
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Do these sound like things that would cause a departure delay of 4 days?
Is there a possibility that there is deeper concern causing the delay but they don't want to say anything yet so saying some easy things to say like some additional hatch operations and repeat safe haven testing or is that a crazy conspiracy theory?
No way to know, but my interpretation is that there were some earlier tests that, for whatever reason, weren't as smooth as they expected. I bet that if you went back to DM-2's flight there were several tests that were re-run, but we didn't hear much about them because they were on-station so much longer.
I would think if there was some concern about re-entry they would shorten the mission, not extend it. Weather could also play a factor.
They were doing thruster tests. Maybe analyzing those takes time.
Also, they may be looking at the earth-side SM's thrusters. It wasn't exposed to weather like this one was, but maybe it's getting exposed as we wait, to see if the seals are working ok.
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#562
by
DanClemmensen
on 14 Jun, 2024 19:14
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I bet that if you went back to DM-2's flight there were several tests that were re-run, but we didn't hear much about them because they were on-station so much longer.
Let's make this a question instead of a speculation: Does anyone recall (or can anyone find) reports of anomalies during DM-2? If the denizens of NSF cannot find any, then they probably don't exist.
We can extend this: what anomalies have occurred during the fourteen Crew dragon flights and the ten cargo dragon flights? These Dragon 2s are broadly similar to Starliner, so their anomalies may give us some context.
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#563
by
Targeteer
on 14 Jun, 2024 19:15
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Sunny just asked for assistance from the ground for a new application sent to her. When she tries to use it a "upgrade required" message appears and asks for her credit card information. CAPCOM joked about getting the number to which Sunny replied "I don't have much (credit) so you wouldn't get much"...
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#564
by
StraumliBlight
on 14 Jun, 2024 19:58
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Let's make this a question instead of a speculation: Does anyone recall (or can anyone find) reports of anomalies during DM-2? If the denizens of NSF cannot find any, then they probably don't exist.
We can extend this: what anomalies have occurred during the fourteen Crew dragon flights and the ten cargo dragon flights? These Dragon 2s are broadly similar to Starliner, so their anomalies may give us some context.
There were some minor issues during reentryWhen SpaceX engineers looked over the Demo-2 capsule, they noticed more wear-and-tear in a few specific areas of the heat shield, where bolts connect the capsule to the spacecraft's trunk.
A second tweak to the spacecraft adjusted the pressure sensor that triggers the drogue parachutes to deploy during the splashdown process, Koenigsmann said. During the Demo-2 return, those parachutes unfurled at a slightly lower altitude than would have been ideal, he added, noting that the deployment was still within nominal range.
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#565
by
meekGee
on 14 Jun, 2024 19:58
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Sunny just asked for assistance from the ground for a new application sent to her. When she tries to use it a "upgrade required" message appears and asks for her credit card information. CAPCOM joked about getting the number to which Sunny replied "I don't have much (credit) so you wouldn't get much"...
Probably her time zone is not set properly...
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#566
by
mn
on 14 Jun, 2024 20:26
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....
Is there a possibility that there is deeper concern causing the delay but they don't want to say anything yet so saying some easy things to say like some additional hatch operations and repeat safe haven testing or is that a crazy conspiracy theory?
No need for such deep conspiracies, there are plenty of issues already publicized, so now it's a matter of taking more time to once again fully analyze the data and decide how to proceed. (Considering every failure mode, determining what the contingency plan is for that situation, etc), part of that analysis involves running more tests...
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#567
by
deadman1204
on 14 Jun, 2024 20:50
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We're also leaving out that the initial extension of starliner on station had NOTHING to do with issues. There was a EVA and other stuff scheduled, and starliner departure got bumped back to avoid crew scheduling issues.
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#568
by
StraumliBlight
on 14 Jun, 2024 20:53
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NASA, Boeing to Discuss Starliner’s MissionNASA and Boeing will discuss Starliner’s mission and departure from the International Space Station as part of the agency’s Boeing Crew Flight Test in a pre-departure media teleconference at 12 p.m. EDT Tuesday, June 18.
NASA, Boeing, and station management teams will evaluate mission requirements and weather conditions at available landing locations in the southwestern U.S. before committing to the spacecraft’s departure from the orbiting laboratory.
Participants in the news conference include:
• Steve Stich, manager, NASA’s Commercial Crew Program
• Dana Weigel, manager, NASA’s International Space Station Program
• Mike Lammers, flight director, NASA’s Johnson Space Center in Houston
• Mark Nappi, vice president and program manager, Commercial Crew Program, Boeing
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#569
by
DanClemmensen
on 14 Jun, 2024 22:05
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....
Is there a possibility that there is deeper concern causing the delay but they don't want to say anything yet so saying some easy things to say like some additional hatch operations and repeat safe haven testing or is that a crazy conspiracy theory?
No need for such deep conspiracies, there are plenty of issues already publicized, so now it's a matter of taking more time to once again fully analyze the data and decide how to proceed. (Considering every failure mode, determining what the contingency plan is for that situation, etc), part of that analysis involves running more tests...
No conspiracy at all. Some of the anomalies were in the SM, and the SM will be lost during its re-entry. It makes sense to try to find ways to perform additional tests on those components while the SM is still atteched to the capsule, either prior to undocking or after undocking and prior to SM separation. If they know they can safely extend the docked time, then taking that time to plan those extra test is exactly what we should hope will happen.
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#570
by
darkenfast
on 15 Jun, 2024 04:46
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“We are continuing to understand the capabilities of Starliner to prepare for the long-term goal..." Now, it's been a long time since I was around federal civil servants (and they were NSA), but I don't think I ever heard that phrase. What the heck does that mean? "We don't know what's going on but we are continuing to work on it"?
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#571
by
dglow
on 15 Jun, 2024 15:51
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“We are continuing to understand the capabilities of Starliner to prepare for the long-term goal..." Now, it's been a long time since I was around federal civil servants (and they were NSA), but I don't think I ever heard that phrase. What the heck does that mean? "We don't know what's going on but we are continuing to work on it"?
It means "we're learning... that there's still more to learn."
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#572
by
docmordrid
on 15 Jun, 2024 17:01
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What's the possibility this is impacted by the fake titanium story at Boeing? Did it also impact AJR?
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#573
by
Lee Jay
on 15 Jun, 2024 17:04
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What's the possibility this is impacted by the fake titanium story at Boeing? Did it also impact AJR?
There's no fake titanium story. Read into it. What was falsified was documents, but tests on the materials indicate the material itself is the specified alloy.
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#574
by
meekGee
on 15 Jun, 2024 18:51
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“We are continuing to understand the capabilities of Starliner to prepare for the long-term goal..." Now, it's been a long time since I was around federal civil servants (and they were NSA), but I don't think I ever heard that phrase. What the heck does that mean? "We don't know what's going on but we are continuing to work on it"?
It's the opposite of "thing are proceeding smoothly and more or less according to plan".
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#575
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 15 Jun, 2024 20:04
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https://twitter.com/dominickmatthew/status/1802031639792632297We have been looking at aurora out the cupola windows a lot lately. Starliner was doing some testing today so we decided to check it out from the Dragon windows. Timing was great for the aurora to line up nicely with Starliner’s service module thrusters.
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#576
by
clongton
on 15 Jun, 2024 20:50
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“We are continuing to understand the capabilities of Starliner to prepare for the long-term goal..." Now, it's been a long time since I was around federal civil servants (and they were NSA), but I don't think I ever heard that phrase. What the heck does that mean? "We don't know what's going on but we are continuing to work on it"?
It's the opposite of "thing are proceeding smoothly and more or less according to plan".
In fairness, things actually are proceeding according to plan. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a manned spacecraft 1st flight with crew aboard that did not encounter some unexpected difficulties. That's primarily because pre-flight modeling will always be a little different from actual function. The "plan" that is proceeding is to identify those differences so they can be addressed once back on the ground. Starliner's 2nd crewed flight should be a nominal mission flight. It was ALWAYS highly unlikely that the 1st flight would be nominal.
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#577
by
Lee Jay
on 15 Jun, 2024 21:19
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“We are continuing to understand the capabilities of Starliner to prepare for the long-term goal..." Now, it's been a long time since I was around federal civil servants (and they were NSA), but I don't think I ever heard that phrase. What the heck does that mean? "We don't know what's going on but we are continuing to work on it"?
It's the opposite of "thing are proceeding smoothly and more or less according to plan".
In fairness, things actually are proceeding according to plan. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a manned spacecraft 1st flight with crew aboard that did not encounter some unexpected difficulties. That's primarily because pre-flight modeling will always be a little different from actual function. The "plan" that is proceeding is to identify those differences so they can be addressed once back on the ground. Starliner's 2nd crewed flight should be a nominal mission flight. It was ALWAYS highly unlikely that the 1st flight would be nominal.
Since it seems most of the problems are with non-crew related systems, it seems reasonable to me to call this the third flight, at least of those systems.
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#578
by
meekGee
on 16 Jun, 2024 03:26
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In fairness, things actually are proceeding according to plan. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a manned spacecraft 1st flight with crew aboard that did not encounter some unexpected difficulties. That's primarily because pre-flight modeling will always be a little different from actual function. The "plan" that is proceeding is to identify those differences so they can be addressed once back on the ground. Starliner's 2nd crewed flight should be a nominal mission flight. It was ALWAYS highly unlikely that the 1st flight would be nominal.
The problem is Boeing's response.
The first Helium leak, I get. But then after much scrutiny they convinced NASA that it's a one-off issue and they should launch - but it wasn't.
The propellant valves of the last flight - again after much scrutiny (which already stunk when they tried to "remediate" them and fly) they convinced NASA not to change the valves but just add weather covers - and the valves are misbehaving again.
In short, they consistently try to minimize the appearance of the problem and choose the cheapest way to patch around it.
Not good form.
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#579
by
Surfdaddy
on 16 Jun, 2024 07:43
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It's almost as if a hardware-rich development program is a good thing. SpaceX had many Dragon flights before people were onboard, and they blew up a capsule before people were ever on board (unintentionally), and fixed those problems. The Space Shuttle flew first flight ever with humans on board. With relatively few contracted Starliner flights, they ought to be working most of the bugs out just as they get to their last flight. Assuming they get that far.
Edit: Grammar
