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#480
by
DaveS
on 06 Jun, 2024 23:14
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but this thruster issue has to be a HUGE priority for NASA to press Boeing on post-mission. This is the kind of issue that demands some form of Tiger Team to be assembled and let them run down the issues and solutions before the next flight.
It's not that big of a deal. STS had multiple RCS thruster issues on-orbit on multiple missions (this event was almost a dead ringer for what happened on STS-63, where they suffered several RCS jet failures and even visible leaks that caused the Russians that be hesitant about a shuttle rendezvous with Mir). Turned out not to be a problem in end.
STS-131 flew with a questionable Right Aft RCS (RRCS) helium regulator in 2010. STS-111 nearly launched with a faulty GN2 regulator in the Left OMS (LOMS) before a weather scrub put an end to that launch attempt and a complete failure of regulator combined with poor weather forced it to be changed out which delayed the launch until June 5 2002.
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#481
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 06 Jun, 2024 23:22
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#482
by
Skylon
on 07 Jun, 2024 00:09
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Butch keeps asking "Who is Matt?" on the big loop, presumably in jest. Does anyone know the inside joke here? Do Matthew Dominick and Butch know each other really well?
A little guess, but Dominick was originally pointed at a Starliner flight - I think he was designated as Suni Williams' backup when she was slated to command Starliner-1. He got moved to Crew-8 with the delays. Maybe Wilmore is poking a little fun in this regard since Dominick "abandoned" Starliner and here it is in space now?
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#483
by
DanClemmensen
on 07 Jun, 2024 00:31
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but this thruster issue has to be a HUGE priority for NASA to press Boeing on post-mission. This is the kind of issue that demands some form of Tiger Team to be assembled and let them run down the issues and solutions before the next flight.
It's not that big of a deal. STS had multiple RCS thruster issues on-orbit on multiple missions [...]
I'm sure Boeing will solve this, but it's a big deal because it has happened on 100% of the Starliner flights. I do not know NASA's crew certification criteria. By their own rules, are they supposed to certify Starliner in this case?
In addition to comparing with STS, do we have comparisons with other crew-certified spacecraft?
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#484
by
DMeader
on 07 Jun, 2024 01:00
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I remember both Gemini and Apollo/Skylab having thruster problems. A rescue mission was considered for Skylab 3
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#485
by
Ben
on 07 Jun, 2024 01:31
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Congrats to the Boeing engineers! Been a project to get here, it would have been crushing if it had gotten waved off. There's folks who worked all the way back at Bigelow who contributed small parts to this, and that's a name you haven't heard in a while.
Folks talking about starliner being abandoned… you are kinda forgetting that with the completion of this flight, all the heavy lifting is now done. A solid flight hardware design is on the books. Software works.
From here it’s flying the damn things and making money…and given the rocky path here, they will fly what they can to fill that financial hole. Not to do so would be stupid. Capital to get to this point is a done deal. So time to earn.
I'd wager that there will be six or fewer operational flights of Starliner. Happy to make that bet on one of the sites that tracks long wagers, or I'll just try to remember to come back here in a few years.
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#486
by
Skylon
on 07 Jun, 2024 01:56
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I remember both Gemini and Apollo/Skylab having thruster problems. A rescue mission was considered for Skylab 3
It wasn't that inherently there were thruster problems. I think it just felt a little extra deflating that after years of Shuttles, in spite of problems, seemingly effortlessly rendezvous and docking with ISS and Mir - and with the further context of the various rendezvous and dockings during Apollo to have the brakes slammed, just as they were getting close to ISS felt a bit jarring for me. And you also can't help but compare it with the recent Crew Dragon flights and how smoothly those dockings have gone. It was the timing of this problem more than anything.
My mind honestly went to the history of some of the early Soyuz flights were the Soviets had failures with multiple spacecraft, or getting crews up to Salyut stations. But on the other end, helium leaks and balky thrusters sound a lot less scary than the fact that on STS-1 there were some worries (and no way to tell) if any of the TPS tiles under Columbia had come loose - thinking of that helped with context there!
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#487
by
ChrisC
on 07 Jun, 2024 04:04
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So I guess we continue to have this confusing, abnormal NSF forum thread config regarding this CFT mission. Can we have separate UPDATES vs discussion threads please? EDIT: apparently not, and the please-kill-me discussion continues
Now that it has quieted down here, and doesn't really matter anymore, I'll make one final plea that in the future, high profile missions like this
must get separate updates and discussion threads. And the two should be in the same section, not separated like the Atlas launch and Boeing "discussion" threads were. Come on, we know how to do this.
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#488
by
Ike17055
on 07 Jun, 2024 04:52
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here's the amusing part...some commentors on this thread predictably saying "OMG, crew has to troubleshoot thruster issues" on the way to successful docking (even though the name of the mission is literally CREW FLIGHT TEST) so "Starliner is surely DOOMED -- a total failure! Pull the plug now before astronauts DIE!" ...A few clicks away, same commentors are writing "Yeeaa...Starship may have blown up on ascent (twice) and then lost control, lost its heat tiles and burned up on reentry...but we got further than last time so Mission was A TOTAL SUCCESS...after all, this is what testing is for, don't ya know..so stop pointing to the negatives...ON TO MARS!" AT least today they got the fourth flight of the thing to crash into the ocean in one piece instead of doing so in multiple pieces...SUCCESS!!
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#489
by
Metalskin
on 07 Jun, 2024 06:08
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here's the amusing part...some commentors on this thread predictably saying "OMG, crew has to troubleshoot thruster issues" on the way to successful docking (even though the name of the mission is literally CREW FLIGHT TEST) so "Starliner is surely DOOMED -- a total failure! Pull the plug now before astronauts DIE!" ...A few clicks away, same commentors are writing "Yeeaa...Starship may have blown up on ascent (twice) and then lost control, lost its heat tiles and burned up on reentry...but we got further than last time so Mission was A TOTAL SUCCESS...after all, this is what testing is for, don't ya know..so stop pointing to the negatives...ON TO MARS!" AT least today they got the fourth flight of the thing to crash into the ocean in one piece instead of doing so in multiple pieces...SUCCESS!!
You're not really comparing apples to apples and I don't feel as though your comment adds much to the discussion. This is a test flight, sure. But it's the last test flight before proper operations start. Starship is an unmanned developmental flight. Totally different.
Btw, I just went through a tonne of pages and the only repeated issue I could find where people kept complaining was about no live feed.
However I did find the following comment funny:
I'm so glad there's a helium leak, so we don't have to continue reading pages and pages about the lack of onboard video. 
Personally, I enjoyed the days when we didn't know who would reach the ISS first. It's crazy how it's turned out. I wish Boeing all the best and believe that having two providers is very important. It's just unfortunate that Boeing has had so many issues.
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#490
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 07 Jun, 2024 06:29
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I am really pleased that Starliner has successfully bought a crew to the ISS and congratulations are due to NASA, Boeing and ULA. The many people who have worked so long and hard on Starliner deserve this good outcome.
With the extra data they now have, I’m confident they’ll be able to address the helium and thruster issues. I do wonder though if the issues will impact when Starliner-1 is? Assuming the rest of CFT goes well, is there enough time to make progress on the issues before NASA has to decide whether it’s Starliner or Dragon flying crew in Feb(?) 2025?
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#491
by
Svetoslav
on 07 Jun, 2024 07:54
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here's the amusing part...some commentors on this thread predictably saying "OMG, crew has to troubleshoot thruster issues" on the way to successful docking (even though the name of the mission is literally CREW FLIGHT TEST) so "Starliner is surely DOOMED -- a total failure! Pull the plug now before astronauts DIE!" ...A few clicks away, same commentors are writing "Yeeaa...Starship may have blown up on ascent (twice) and then lost control, lost its heat tiles and burned up on reentry...but we got further than last time so Mission was A TOTAL SUCCESS...after all, this is what testing is for, don't ya know..so stop pointing to the negatives...ON TO MARS!" AT least today they got the fourth flight of the thing to crash into the ocean in one piece instead of doing so in multiple pieces...SUCCESS!!
I know it's annoying - but here I have to remind that with Starship there WILL be a next flight so a total success is certainly possible.
It's different with Starliner. The spacecraft is tied to an obsolete rocket with engines that were previously purchased from an enemy country that's no longer available as a supplier. There are no plans to replace that rocket. There are currently no funds to replace that rocket.
And while Starship has many prototypes in hangar waiting to be launched, the question about Starliner stands: what happens then the supply of (currently six) Atlas V rockets is depleted?
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#492
by
Targeteer
on 07 Jun, 2024 10:42
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The crew was allowed to sleep in but are now up and working. There were several warnings overnight including a heater, backup activated, and at least one thruster, I think. ISS comms have been moved to SG-3, maybe for deconfliction.
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#493
by
Topash15
on 07 Jun, 2024 15:30
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It's different with Starliner. The spacecraft is tied to an obsolete rocket with engines that were previously purchased from an enemy country that's no longer available as a supplier. There are no plans to replace that rocket. There are currently no funds to replace that rocket.
And while Starship has many prototypes in hangar waiting to be launched, the question about Starliner stands: what happens then the supply of (currently six) Atlas V rockets is depleted?
Starliner is designed to launch on Falcon 9 and Vulcan. Vulcan isn't crew rated yet, but it's certainly possible by the time Starliner flies its 6 missions. Falcon could fill any gap if needed.
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#494
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 07 Jun, 2024 15:46
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Stream tomorrow:
NASA’s Boeing Crew Flight Test Starliner Tour
NASA
8 Jun 2024
#NASA #Starliner #Spaceship
Live from the International Space Station: Watch a tour of the Boeing Starliner with NASA astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams, the first crew to fly on the spacecraft.
Wilmore and Williams arrived at the station aboard Starliner on Thursday, June 6, one day after the spacecraft was launched on a ULA (United Launch Alliance) Atlas V rocket from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida.
As part of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program, the Boeing Crew Flight Test will help validate the transportation system, launch pad, rocket, spacecraft, in-orbit operations capabilities, and return to Earth with astronauts aboard as the agency prepares to certify Starliner for rotational missions to the space station.
Credit: NASA
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#495
by
abaddon
on 07 Jun, 2024 15:52
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here's the amusing part...some commentors on this thread predictably saying "OMG, crew has to troubleshoot thruster issues" on the way to successful docking (even though the name of the mission is literally CREW FLIGHT TEST) so "Starliner is surely DOOMED -- a total failure! Pull the plug now before astronauts DIE!" ...A few clicks away, same commentors are writing "Yeeaa...Starship may have blown up on ascent (twice) and then lost control, lost its heat tiles and burned up on reentry...but we got further than last time so Mission was A TOTAL SUCCESS...after all, this is what testing is for, don't ya know..so stop pointing to the negatives...ON TO MARS!" AT least today they got the fourth flight of the thing to crash into the ocean in one piece instead of doing so in multiple pieces...SUCCESS!!
You could have chosen to compare Starliner in an apples-to-apples comparison to Crew Dragon. Dragon also had teething issues on its maiden crewed flight, which were worked through on the way to certification. Over time it has become more and more reliable as it has flown more often, as you'd expect. I expect the same from Starliner, which is great, and look forward to the latest crewed mission.
Instead you decided to dunk on people who are excited about Starship in an apples-to-oranges comparison (and bring Starship into this thread when it has no business being here), which is just lame and makes you look insecure. Congratulations?
More on topic, genuine congratulations to Boeing and NASA on crew arrival, looking forward to the rest of the mission proceeding successfully and a hopefully smooth path to certification and first operational mission.
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#496
by
centaurinasa
on 07 Jun, 2024 16:20
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Amazing view from ISS live feed.
(eems that the SSRMS is examining the ship and especially the RCS...)
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#497
by
matthewota
on 07 Jun, 2024 18:54
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#498
by
Jim
on 07 Jun, 2024 19:00
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I know it's annoying - but here I have to remind that with Starship there WILL be a next flight so a total success is certainly possible.
It's different with Starliner. The spacecraft is tied to an obsolete rocket with engines that were previously purchased from an enemy country that's no longer available as a supplier. There are no plans to replace that rocket. There are currently no funds to replace that rocket.
And while Starship has many prototypes in hangar waiting to be launched, the question about Starliner stands: what happens then the supply of (currently six) Atlas V rockets is depleted?
Yes, you are
Vulcan is the replacement for Altas V
Rocket is not the problem. the issue is Boeing; if they want continue the program past 6. Vulcan was sized to that Starliner could fly on it and still use the SLC-41 crew tower.
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#499
by
Targeteer
on 07 Jun, 2024 19:42
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The ISS crew is currently searching for the food sent up in advance for Sunny and Butch...
