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#240
by
haywoodfloyd
on 05 Jun, 2024 22:51
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If they did it on Apollo 8 50 years ago, why can't they do it now?
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#241
by
Ben
on 05 Jun, 2024 22:56
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Because it's their first and last fixed price contract and they're not spending company money on anything that wasn't required by the customer during contract negotiations.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bathroom onboard was coin operated.
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#242
by
yg1968
on 05 Jun, 2024 23:02
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Boeing would have to pay for the bandwidth
Boeing COULD have purchased a Starlink account from SpaceX. And I'm only being half-snarky here.
On more a serious note, this is a taxpayer-funded flight contract, NASA should have REQUIRED publicly-viewable video as a part of the standard downlink, test flight or not. Bandwidth should not be a limiter. They could tape-delay it if they're worried about adverse situations.
It just adds to the growing list of poor management decisions attributed to Boeing AND NASA.
The contract was negotiated and signed in 2014, based on design contracts signed even earlier. Such a requirement would have needed to be added by NASA back then. The goal of those fixed-price contracts was to have a usable Crew launch capability by 2017, to replace the Shuttle as quickly as possible, so anything that might delay the development was an unnecessary luxury,
It's easy to say "just use Starlink" now, But Starlink in space Is a very recent development.
I believe that NASA can add requirements after the fact but the provider could ask compensation for it. In this case, perhaps that NASA could ask it as compensation for Boeing being late. In any event, it seems that it will be added in later missions per today's press conference.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=60593.msg2597501#msg2597501
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#243
by
DrTadd
on 05 Jun, 2024 23:05
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Folks talking about starliner being abandoned… you are kinda forgetting that with the completion of this flight, all the heavy lifting is now done. A solid flight hardware design is on the books. Software works.
From here it’s flying the damn things and making money…and given the rocky path here, they will fly what they can to fill that financial hole. Not to do so would be stupid. Capital to get to this point is a done deal. So time to earn.
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#244
by
Yellowstone10
on 05 Jun, 2024 23:20
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Ground reports seeing greater than expected helium leakage in the port thruster doghouse, so they have isolated He manifold 2 in that doghouse. (Anyone happen to know for sure if that's the same one that had the leak on the ground?)
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#245
by
Robert_the_Doll
on 05 Jun, 2024 23:22
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#246
by
DanClemmensen
on 05 Jun, 2024 23:27
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Boeing would have to pay for the bandwidth
Boeing COULD have purchased a Starlink account from SpaceX. And I'm only being half-snarky here.
On more a serious note, this is a taxpayer-funded flight contract, NASA should have REQUIRED publicly-viewable video as a part of the standard downlink, test flight or not. Bandwidth should not be a limiter. They could tape-delay it if they're worried about adverse situations.
It just adds to the growing list of poor management decisions attributed to Boeing AND NASA.
The contract was negotiated and signed in 2014, based on design contracts signed even earlier. Such a requirement would have needed to be added by NASA back then. The goal of those fixed-price contracts was to have a usable Crew launch capability by 2017, to replace the Shuttle as quickly as possible, so anything that might delay the development was an unnecessary luxury,
It's easy to say "just use Starlink" now, But Starlink in space Is a very recent development.
I believe that NASA can add requirements after the fact but the provider could ask compensation for it. In this case, perhaps that NASA could ask it as compensation for Boeing being late. In any event, it seems that it will be added in later missions per today's press conference.
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=60593.msg2597501#msg2597501
NASA can certainly negotiate contract extensions if they are willing to pay for them. I don't think this process is usually called "adding requirements" and "asking compensation". I was attempting to assess why Boeing did not add this feature initially.
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#247
by
Targeteer
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:07
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Isolation of the prop systems has kicked out some on board cautions. An update from CAPCOM just indicated there are new helium leaks.
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#248
by
Targeteer
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:09
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The crew is closing manifolds related to all 4 dog houses that will result in loss of some thrusters.
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#249
by
david1971
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:12
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Congrats to Boeing, I'm very happy to see astronauts headed to the ISS.
As for the camera discussion, on one hand it's not a requirement, so I understand why they didn't put effort /money into this.
On the other, launches like this one also serve as commercials for the vendor. People should walk away from this morning's achievement with positive thoughts about Boeing's performance, and I would think they would be doing everything possible to reinforce that. While I was super-excited about the results, while viewing I also had the reactions "it's weird to see a launch where they throw away the rocket" and "what's the deal with the low-grade computer-simulation rather than video?" Yes, at the end of the day the results are what really matters, but for a company like Boeing which has been battered in public perception, I'd think that they would put a little more into a high-viewership event.
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#250
by
Yellowstone10
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:13
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(The following has a big "if I understood correctly" disclaimer on it...)
Closing port helium manifold 2 (which, per Bill Harwood on Twitter, is the one that was previously leaking) did not resolve the issue, so Ground had the crew perform a "safe prop command" from the SM Prop Leak procedure. After taking some time to characterize the data, the CAPCOM reported to the crew that they have picked up two more small helium leaks. They will be closing manifold 1 in the top doghouse and manifold 1 in the port doghouse. CAPCOM is walking them through procedures to configure the prop system accordingly, prior to their sleep period.
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#251
by
Targeteer
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:17
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Helium manifold leaks were noted in top and port doghouses. Butch asked how the new leaks compared to the original leak and CAPCOM said a better answer would come after shift handover. The crew is well into their sleep period...
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#252
by
Targeteer
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:19
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Leaks were helium top #1 and port #1 manifolds.
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#253
by
Targeteer
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:24
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The Boeing rep on commentary is struggling to seem coherent but notes the vehicle is safe, stable, and the crew is being put to bed.
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#254
by
mn
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:31
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I'm so glad there's a helium leak, so we don't have to continue reading pages and pages about the lack of onboard video.
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#255
by
Yellowstone10
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:37
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Just before the shift change, Butch asked the same question I'm wondering - how do the the new leaks in Top #1 and Port #1 compare to the pre-launch leak in Port #2? Capcom sort of punted on that one, said they're "still getting the story together and I'm going to get you all the right information."
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#256
by
Robert_the_Doll
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:39
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Audio only.
https://twitter.com/BoeingSpace/status/1798503268831867250Hear from @NASA_Astronauts Butch Wilmore and @Astro_Suni as they talk with mission control at
@NASA_Johnson about their experience manually flying #Starliner. Learn how the spacecraft handles and what they think about the the ride from @ulalaunch and their spacesuits.
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#257
by
lcs
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:49
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Audio only.
Edited audio. They left out the part where Butch described what the Atlas felt like going through Max-Q.
Sounded a bit sporty.
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#258
by
Jim
on 06 Jun, 2024 00:55
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Boeing would have to pay for the bandwidth
Boeing COULD have purchased a Starlink account from SpaceX. And I'm only being half-snarky here.
On more a serious note, this is a taxpayer-funded flight contract, NASA should have REQUIRED publicly-viewable video as a part of the standard downlink, test flight or not. Bandwidth should not be a limiter. They could tape-delay it if they're worried about adverse situations.
It just adds to the growing list of poor management decisions attributed to Boeing AND NASA.
Nonsense. Another drop in the signal to noise ratio
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#259
by
Herb Schaltegger
on 06 Jun, 2024 01:02
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As a former Boeing employee who worked in the Missiles and Space division decades ago, there are few bigger (quiet) cheerleaders for them in this mission than me, but these additional on-orbit helium leaks are exceedingly concerning to me. I can’t help but think there must be some systemic issue here, some commonality in components (same valve or seal designs, same vendor for parts, etc), or some design or build process issue involved. I honestly don’t know how they don’t abort the flight, get the crew safely on the ground and the hardware in a clean room to figure out what’s going on.
