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#220
by
ugordan
on 05 Jun, 2024 18:34
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Interestingly both Atlas' in this case needed structural/aero mod.s in order to fly capsules.
Mercury Atlas: Belly-Band
Starliner Atlas: Aeroskirt (4)
I can't say that I don't find the Starliner skirt ugly. Like, really ugly.
But, as long as it works, I'm fine. Engineers get sh*t done. Yes, it introduces an additional separation event, but even Atlas 5xx Centaur has structural load adapters to the 5m fairing that had to be jettisoned (what it's called, the Centaur Forward Load Reactor, the CFLR?).
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#221
by
Robert_the_Doll
on 05 Jun, 2024 18:54
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#222
by
John Santos
on 05 Jun, 2024 19:19
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the orbit displays in Houston show a slight orbit offset between ISS and Starliner. They are in the same orbital plane so shouldn't they overlap?
Starliner is in a lower hence faster orbit, so is behind and catching up with the ISS. During the time interval between when the ISS passes over a particular point on the ground and when Starliner crosses the same latitude, the Earth rotates a bit. By the time Starliner gets there, it is farther west (on the ground) because the surface of the Earth is farther east, even though Starliner and the ISS are in the same plane, when viewed from an astronomical perspective. So the ground tracks are due to viewing the orbits in a rotating frame of reference, that is the frame in which the Earth is stationary.
If you would like to make your brain hurt, try doing the math. Then realize this is just a really simple part of "Rocket Science"! (My brain hurts just thinking about doing the math.)
P.S. Thanks to the moderators for moving my reply to @Targeteer's question to the discussion thread. I think I was posting it while the discussion posts were being moved and I didn't know they would catch it, and was trying to figure out how to move it my self, when I discovered magic had happened!
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#223
by
Yellowstone10
on 05 Jun, 2024 19:39
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The manual piloting demo has been deemed successful.
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#224
by
lcs
on 05 Jun, 2024 19:46
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conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day on this.
in all honesty though a camera is such a common easy and essential piece of equipment to include in the spacecraft, one has to wonder why Boeing overlooked this.
Because this is at all not about cameras, it's about telemetry links and bandwidth to the ground. You can place a smartphone camera onboard, but if you don't have bandwidth available to transmit that video down to ground, you might as well have carried a paper-weight.
There are cameras onboard (Mustang) recording everything, including the upcoming inflight PAO event and we will likely get a data dump from ISS before Starliner returns.
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#225
by
ChrisC
on 05 Jun, 2024 19:57
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So I guess we continue to have this confusing, abnormal NSF forum thread config regarding this CFT mission. Can we have separate UPDATES vs discussion threads please?
EDIT: apparently not, and the please-kill-me discussion continues
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#226
by
KilroySmith
on 05 Jun, 2024 20:16
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the orbit displays in Houston show a slight orbit offset between ISS and Starliner. They are in the same orbital plane so shouldn't they overlap?
IANARS, but it seems to me if you have an experimental capsule aimed at the ISS, you might want to offset your aim just a bit so that catastrophic failures of the capsule don't cause an unexpected and uncontrolled intersection of orbits. Once everything is tested and working, a small burn to align the orbital planes should be all that's necessary.
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#227
by
Yellowstone10
on 05 Jun, 2024 20:39
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The crew are currently working through a procedure to refill the sublimator with approximately 3 liters of water, to offset the excessive water consumption seen earlier in the flight.
One other minor ECLSS issue - the cabin humidity is running lower than desired, which the commentator attributed to having only 2 humans on board rather than the usual 4.
Now moving into the VESTA (Vision-based, Electro-optical Sensor Tracking Assembly) data collection task.
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#228
by
haywoodfloyd
on 05 Jun, 2024 20:52
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This is more like an Update thread than a Discussion thread.
Can we rename it please.
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#229
by
Jim
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:12
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conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day on this.
in all honesty though a camera is such a common easy and essential piece of equipment to include in the spacecraft, one has to wonder why Boeing overlooked this.
Because this is at all not about cameras, it's about telemetry links and bandwidth to the ground. You can place a smartphone camera onboard, but if you don't have bandwidth available to transmit that video down to ground, you might as well have carried a paper-weight.
Now, I could go on and on and shi* on Boeing people for not allowing for at least TDRS video, or whatever, but that's besides the point. Starliner went with their decision way back when and it'll take a while to retrofit live video capability, should they ever even choose to do so.
Boeing would have to pay for the bandwidth
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#230
by
yg1968
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:16
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conspiracy theorists are going to have a field day on this.
in all honesty though a camera is such a common easy and essential piece of equipment to include in the spacecraft, one has to wonder why Boeing overlooked this.
Because this is at all not about cameras, it's about telemetry links and bandwidth to the ground. You can place a smartphone camera onboard, but if you don't have bandwidth available to transmit that video down to ground, you might as well have carried a paper-weight.
Now, I could go on and on and shi* on Boeing people for not allowing for at least TDRS video, or whatever, but that's besides the point. Starliner went with their decision way back when and it'll take a while to retrofit live video capability, should they ever even choose to do so.
Not even Crew Dragon has bandwidth to stream live video all the time, it's up to the available ground stations.
(and please, don't even start with Starlink, because that's obviously an option Boeing isn't taking)
From what I recall Boeing said that they would have live video on other missions but not on this one. I found confirmation of this below:
While Starliner is in free flight, there is no live video from inside the spacecraft, although video is being recorded and can be downlinked after Starliner docks with the ISS. Nappi said that the ability to provide live video from inside the spacecraft, like what is available on SpaceX Crew Dragon mission, will be added, but that will take a couple of flights.
https://spacenews.com/starliner-lifts-off-on-crewed-test-flight/
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#231
by
litton4
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:18
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I think the real reason for no live views is that they don't want pictures of Butch and Suni throwing giant switches, pulling levers and pressing musical coloured buttons like Star Trek ToS
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#232
by
yg1968
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:22
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#233
by
ZachS09
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:22
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I think the real reason for no live views is that they don't want pictures of Butch and Suni throwing giant switches, pulling levers and pressing musical coloured buttons like Star Trek ToS
I’d want to see them operate the switches, levers, and stuff like that.
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#234
by
catdlr
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:27
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No Video but here is some audio.
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#235
by
Jeff Lerner
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:33
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I think the real reason for no live views is that they don't want pictures of Butch and Suni throwing giant switches, pulling levers and pressing musical coloured buttons like Star Trek ToS
I’d want to see them operate the switches, levers, and stuff like that.
Really glad the flight appears to be going well..really need at least two non Russian ISS providers…
And not to pile on, but I find it disconcerting that no live video is being provided…I get that this is a test light and data is king but outreach to spaceflight fans or at least tax payers is a big part of NASA…
There had to be enough time to provide the functionality and data provision for at least one camera during the ascent and ride to ISS..
This is like the days of Mercury and Gemini..
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#236
by
lcs
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:43
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#237
by
Yellowstone10
on 05 Jun, 2024 21:44
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This is more like an Update thread than a Discussion thread.
Can we rename it please.
There is already an update thread, it's in the ULA Forum:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=47978.860
The mods in that thread told us to move further commentary on the
mission (as opposed to the launch) to this thread. Hence the issue, because the title here does say "discussion" when we probably just need a mission thread. (This is simpler on Dragon launches where both the launch and the mission clearly belong in the SpaceX forum - here we're kind of split across Boeing vs. ULA.)
Mike Fincke has arrived at MCC-Houston and taken a seat at the CAPCOM desk (he's on the left in the first picture, with the gray shirt / orange tie).
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#238
by
daveglo
on 05 Jun, 2024 22:14
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Boeing would have to pay for the bandwidth
Boeing COULD have purchased a Starlink account from SpaceX. And I'm only being half-snarky here.
On more a serious note, this is a taxpayer-funded flight contract, NASA should have REQUIRED publicly-viewable video as a part of the standard downlink, test flight or not. Bandwidth should not be a limiter. They could tape-delay it if they're worried about adverse situations.
It just adds to the growing list of poor management decisions attributed to Boeing AND NASA.
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#239
by
DanClemmensen
on 05 Jun, 2024 22:31
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Boeing would have to pay for the bandwidth
Boeing COULD have purchased a Starlink account from SpaceX. And I'm only being half-snarky here.
On more a serious note, this is a taxpayer-funded flight contract, NASA should have REQUIRED publicly-viewable video as a part of the standard downlink, test flight or not. Bandwidth should not be a limiter. They could tape-delay it if they're worried about adverse situations.
It just adds to the growing list of poor management decisions attributed to Boeing AND NASA.
The contract was negotiated and signed in 2014, based on design contracts signed even earlier. Such a requirement would have needed to be added by NASA back then. The goal of those fixed-price contracts was to have a usable Crew launch capability by 2017, to replace the Shuttle as quickly as possible, so anything that might delay the development was an unnecessary luxury,
It's easy to say "just use Starlink" now, But Starlink in space Is a very recent development.