Quote from: meekGee on 02/21/2024 12:23 amQuote from: raptorx2 on 02/21/2024 12:16 amQuote from: catdlr on 02/20/2024 04:15 amQuote from: Asteroza on 02/20/2024 03:41 amWill this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?Just a theory, slightly further away means long travel time, but calmer waters allow for safer landing conditions and faster travel return time. As for increased launch cadence, SpaceX is still limited to two drone ships, and the need to perform RTLS is still needed when drone availability is limited. The RTLS cost them a few fewer Starlinks Sats, but the Delta-V saving may allow some added Starlinks Sats. I'll wait for the members with the math skills to do the calculations on this.Another theory suggests that the fleet heads towards the Bahamas at Exumas and uses a single barge to transport multiple boosters back to Port Canaveral before returning to Exumas. This approach is similar to the one used on the West Coast where a single drone ship docks at Long Beach and heads out for another landing, while a separate barge collects a couple of boosters and then departs for VSFB. The boosters are then dropped off at their port and the barge returns for more.Yes, I expect that Musk has already acquired one of these islands near the landing area that has a preexisting harbor. Build a resort with an airstrip. Base one of the ASDS locally at this location and then transfer to a cargo ship for the trip back to the Eastern Range. (as you point out like on the West Coast) Then the ASDS is only 15 miles from the landing zone. This increases cadence dramatically.Why land on a barge and not on shore?For armchair rubberneckers who would like to explore the options, a google maps link to the areahttps://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2%B018'56.6%22N+76%C2%B010'36.6%22W/@24.4235032,-76.5651606,214210m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d24.315719!4d-76.17684?entry=ttuNot a lot of great options for land landing point that also has a decent harbor for barge access and the roads to a wharf, while having the landing point be reasonably isolated.There is a former airstrip near Freetownhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2%B047'20.6%22N+76%C2%B018'28.5%22W/@24.7876853,-76.3387612,13349m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d24.789062!4d-76.307927?entry=ttuThat has a harbor north of it by a decent access road with a wharf where a barge could dockhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2%B050'07.8%22N+76%C2%B020'32.2%22W/@24.8269521,-76.3544733,9997m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d24.835511!4d-76.342278?entry=ttubut also what looks like a barge hideaway just south of the harbor that could be usedhttps://www.google.com/maps/place/24%C2%B049'45.6%22N+76%C2%B020'38.0%22W/@24.827248,-76.3474028,2163m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d24.829333!4d-76.343874?entry=ttuThe Freetown area is closer than Nassau to allow faster cycle time, but no crane. The airstrip is almost but not quite clear of the inhabited area of the harbor from a trajectory perspective.
Quote from: raptorx2 on 02/21/2024 12:16 amQuote from: catdlr on 02/20/2024 04:15 amQuote from: Asteroza on 02/20/2024 03:41 amWill this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?Just a theory, slightly further away means long travel time, but calmer waters allow for safer landing conditions and faster travel return time. As for increased launch cadence, SpaceX is still limited to two drone ships, and the need to perform RTLS is still needed when drone availability is limited. The RTLS cost them a few fewer Starlinks Sats, but the Delta-V saving may allow some added Starlinks Sats. I'll wait for the members with the math skills to do the calculations on this.Another theory suggests that the fleet heads towards the Bahamas at Exumas and uses a single barge to transport multiple boosters back to Port Canaveral before returning to Exumas. This approach is similar to the one used on the West Coast where a single drone ship docks at Long Beach and heads out for another landing, while a separate barge collects a couple of boosters and then departs for VSFB. The boosters are then dropped off at their port and the barge returns for more.Yes, I expect that Musk has already acquired one of these islands near the landing area that has a preexisting harbor. Build a resort with an airstrip. Base one of the ASDS locally at this location and then transfer to a cargo ship for the trip back to the Eastern Range. (as you point out like on the West Coast) Then the ASDS is only 15 miles from the landing zone. This increases cadence dramatically.Why land on a barge and not on shore?
Quote from: catdlr on 02/20/2024 04:15 amQuote from: Asteroza on 02/20/2024 03:41 amWill this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?Just a theory, slightly further away means long travel time, but calmer waters allow for safer landing conditions and faster travel return time. As for increased launch cadence, SpaceX is still limited to two drone ships, and the need to perform RTLS is still needed when drone availability is limited. The RTLS cost them a few fewer Starlinks Sats, but the Delta-V saving may allow some added Starlinks Sats. I'll wait for the members with the math skills to do the calculations on this.Another theory suggests that the fleet heads towards the Bahamas at Exumas and uses a single barge to transport multiple boosters back to Port Canaveral before returning to Exumas. This approach is similar to the one used on the West Coast where a single drone ship docks at Long Beach and heads out for another landing, while a separate barge collects a couple of boosters and then departs for VSFB. The boosters are then dropped off at their port and the barge returns for more.Yes, I expect that Musk has already acquired one of these islands near the landing area that has a preexisting harbor. Build a resort with an airstrip. Base one of the ASDS locally at this location and then transfer to a cargo ship for the trip back to the Eastern Range. (as you point out like on the West Coast) Then the ASDS is only 15 miles from the landing zone. This increases cadence dramatically.
Quote from: Asteroza on 02/20/2024 03:41 amWill this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?Just a theory, slightly further away means long travel time, but calmer waters allow for safer landing conditions and faster travel return time. As for increased launch cadence, SpaceX is still limited to two drone ships, and the need to perform RTLS is still needed when drone availability is limited. The RTLS cost them a few fewer Starlinks Sats, but the Delta-V saving may allow some added Starlinks Sats. I'll wait for the members with the math skills to do the calculations on this.Another theory suggests that the fleet heads towards the Bahamas at Exumas and uses a single barge to transport multiple boosters back to Port Canaveral before returning to Exumas. This approach is similar to the one used on the West Coast where a single drone ship docks at Long Beach and heads out for another landing, while a separate barge collects a couple of boosters and then departs for VSFB. The boosters are then dropped off at their port and the barge returns for more.
Will this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?
Norman's Cay looks ideal.Nice Harbor4,700ft Commercial Airport allowing direct flights from Miami.Accommodations / CottagesRight on the North End of the Exumas.
Quote from: raptorx2 on 03/05/2024 07:49 pmNorman's Cay looks ideal.Nice Harbor4,700ft Commercial Airport allowing direct flights from Miami.Accommodations / CottagesRight on the North End of the Exumas.According to this article, it appears that the runway and Harbor (Southern End of Norman's Cay) is owned by the Bahamian Govt. The rest is owned by a developer that want to build a resort and private residences.This seem to (on the surface) tie into the statements made by the Bahamian Officials.May 21, 2019http://www.tribune242.com/news/2019/may/21/land-transfer-enable-serious-development-normans-c/
Quote from: raptorx2 on 03/05/2024 09:25 pmQuote from: raptorx2 on 03/05/2024 07:49 pmNorman's Cay looks ideal.Nice Harbor4,700ft Commercial Airport allowing direct flights from Miami.Accommodations / CottagesRight on the North End of the Exumas.According to this article, it appears that the runway and Harbor (Southern End of Norman's Cay) is owned by the Bahamian Govt. The rest is owned by a developer that want to build a resort and private residences.This seem to (on the surface) tie into the statements made by the Bahamian Officials.May 21, 2019http://www.tribune242.com/news/2019/may/21/land-transfer-enable-serious-development-normans-c/Good job raptorx2 for both posts. Continue to keep your eyes open for any other news. Best, Tony
This is not a show-stopper, but the channel to that harbor marina is 50 ft wide, and OCISLU is 150 ft wide!SX would been to build a new harbor, or at least a wharf, and probably a breakwater.
If SpaceX is also looking ahead to facilities that could be used for Starship, then they could make a considerable investment in developing their own facilities. There are uninhabited islands in Exuma!
If you are going to built facilities for Starship. Perhaps one a bit closer to equator?I have always been a fan of the Northwest Coast of Guyana. Just up the road from the European French Guinea launch facility. Guyana is undergoing rapid GDP Growth and Development.Considerably shorter from Brownsville to Guyana, than the ESA to French Guinea.Plenty of room to build manufacturing and launch facilities.
Where is the huge quantities of liquid methane and oxygen going to come from. If shipping in need to build expensive port facilities and a means of getting cryo liquids to launch site.
Quote from: raptorx2 on 03/05/2024 11:51 pmIf you are going to built facilities for Starship. Perhaps one a bit closer to equator?I have always been a fan of the Northwest Coast of Guyana. Just up the road from the European French Guinea launch facility. Guyana is undergoing rapid GDP Growth and Development.Considerably shorter from Brownsville to Guyana, than the ESA to French Guinea.Plenty of room to build manufacturing and launch facilities. Not worth the little extra performance and the complication.
I don't recall that the agreement with the Bahamas to land F9 boosters in Bahamian waters has any language at all about anything SX ever making landfall on the territory of the country.
Not sure anyone outside of the Bahamian Govt. and SpaceX have ever actually seen the details of the agreement?Bahamian Customs officials are already located at this site for Marine Traffic at port.
If you are going to built facilities for Starship. Perhaps one a bit closer to equator?
This thread is starting to stray a bit.
.....However, it should be noted that the launch path and the need for the Bahamas are specific for a Group of Starlinks, and once completed SpaceX will go on a launch at a different inclination and may no longer need this area.<snip>
Quote from: catdlr on 03/07/2024 02:44 am.....However, it should be noted that the launch path and the need for the Bahamas are specific for a Group of Starlinks, and once completed SpaceX will go on a launch at a different inclination and may no longer need this area.<snip>Disagree. As that specific group of Starlink comsats will need constant replenishment to retain bandwidth capacity. Using the Bahamas launch path regularly at low flight rate makes regulatory issues easier to deal with if that particular orbital inclination is needed for some future launches.
