Bahamas Ministry to allow SpaceX dronships to land F9 at Exumas

[redneck]

Will this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?

Just a theory, slightly further away means long travel time, but calmer waters allow for safer landing conditions and faster travel return time.  As for increased launch cadence, SpaceX is still limited to two drone ships, and the need to perform RTLS is still needed when drone availability is limited.  The RTLS cost them a few fewer Starlinks Sats, but the Delta-V saving may allow some added Starlinks Sats.  I'll wait for the members with the math skills to do the calculations on this.

Another theory suggests that the fleet heads towards the Bahamas at Exumas and uses a single barge to transport multiple boosters back to Port Canaveral before returning to Exumas. This approach is similar to the one used on the West Coast where a single drone ship docks at Long Beach and heads out for another landing, while a separate barge collects a couple of boosters and then departs for VSFB. The boosters are then dropped off at their port and the barge returns for more.

Yes, I expect that Musk has already acquired one of these islands near the landing area that has a preexisting harbor.  Build a resort with an airstrip. Base one of the ASDS locally at this location and then transfer to a cargo ship for the trip back to the Eastern Range. (as you point out like on the West Coast)  Then the ASDS is only 15 miles from the landing zone. This increases cadence dramatically.

Why land on a barge and not on shore?

Possibly to avoid being locked to a single location vulnerable to political winds as in the nonsense at Chica?? If the locals begin a form of obstruction, move to another jurisdiction. More difficult after building infrastructure ashore.

[meekGee]

Will this in theory mean calmer seas more often for an ASDS landing there, and faster transit back, increasing launch availability?

Just a theory, slightly further away means long travel time, but calmer waters allow for safer landing conditions and faster travel return time.  As for increased launch cadence, SpaceX is still limited to two drone ships, and the need to perform RTLS is still needed when drone availability is limited.  The RTLS cost them a few fewer Starlinks Sats, but the Delta-V saving may allow some added Starlinks Sats.  I'll wait for the members with the math skills to do the calculations on this.

Another theory suggests that the fleet heads towards the Bahamas at Exumas and uses a single barge to transport multiple boosters back to Port Canaveral before returning to Exumas. This approach is similar to the one used on the West Coast where a single drone ship docks at Long Beach and heads out for another landing, while a separate barge collects a couple of boosters and then departs for VSFB. The boosters are then dropped off at their port and the barge returns for more.

Yes, I expect that Musk has already acquired one of these islands near the landing area that has a preexisting harbor.  Build a resort with an airstrip. Base one of the ASDS locally at this location and then transfer to a cargo ship for the trip back to the Eastern Range. (as you point out like on the West Coast)  Then the ASDS is only 15 miles from the landing zone. This increases cadence dramatically.

Why land on a barge and not on shore?

Possibly to avoid being locked to a single location vulnerable to political winds as in the nonsense at Chica?? If the locals begin a form of obstruction, move to another jurisdiction. More difficult after building infrastructure ashore.

You can always fall back to a barge, especially if the particular launch trajectory is not close enough to the landing port...

But I'm guessing the dogleg required to reach a common landing point, usually, is a lot less than a full boostback.

Handling OTOH is much simplified, as is turn around time.

[Alexphysics]

Not sure why a lot of thought is being put on something so simple. Group 7 and 8 launches go to 53 degree inclination, if they didn't have this agreement in place then the droneship would have to go where Group 6 landings occur which means a massive dogleg around Bahamas and therefore less satellites that can be launched.

SpaceX is obviously interested on launching as many satellites as they can, that's precisely why they only did a few Group 6 launches from Vandenberg and then abandoned it and went with Group 7/8 as those can be reached from there with little to no dogleg needed at all. Same thing from Florida with Group 6 launches. There's a slight dogleg but it's not a massive one so that's why they're currently having these missions in that arrangement but with this agreement they can also do Group 7/8 launches from the Cape and not perform doglegs at all.

I assume that this could also potentially shift the landing location of Group 6 missions later on to a bit closer to Bahamas to completely avoid that slight dogleg maneuver they do. Again, it's a small one but it's somewhat there. They're always squeezing more performance out of Falcon 9 so if they don't have to waste it on doglegs and whatnot then that means more satellites per launch.

[wannamoonbase]

Downrange land landings would be pretty cool to watch.  Don't know what that means for ITAR regulations and controls.

I'm not sure it buys much for them if they still need to get them onto and off a transport ship.  It's still adding another ship to the SpaceX navy, so why not just make it another ASDS?

Will be interesting to see develop.

[raptorx2]

Well if you read the Press Release.  It sounds more like SpaceX will create something like a SpaceXland on one of the Islands near the landing zone.  So, in theory, The ASDS would be based out of "SpaceXland" going forward and boosters transferred to some sort of "fastbarge" for transit back to Cape. All the operations would be viewable by the visitors to SpaceXland.

""NASSAU, The Bahamas (16 Feb. 2024) — The Ministry of Tourism, Investments & Aviation (MOTIA) is delighted to announce the successful negotiation and execution of a groundbreaking Letter of Agreement (LOA) with SpaceX (Space Exploration Technologies Corp.), marking a revolutionary leap for The Bahamas into the realm of space tourism.

SpaceX, a pioneer in space exploration, is currently finalizing mission designs where one of the company’s autonomous droneships will serve as a Falcon 9 landing location east of The Exumas, offering a spectacle that will be visible only in The Bahamas. This unique opportunity sets the stage for tourists to witness awe-inspiring space events from cruise ships, resorts, and various tourist hotspots, solidifying The Bahamas' position as a key player in the emerging space tourism industry.

In tandem with the LOA, SpaceX has committed to supporting the creation of a space installation or exhibit showcasing recognizable hardware and a SpaceX spacesuit. This exhibit, the only one outside the United States, is expected to draw significant attention and attendance from both Bahamian citizens and international tourists.[/b]"

[steveleach]

Downrange land landings would be pretty cool to watch.  Don't know what that means for ITAR regulations and controls.

I'm not sure it buys much for them if they still need to get them onto and off a transport ship.  It's still adding another ship to the SpaceX navy, so why not just make it another ASDS?

Will be interesting to see develop.

I can imagine a few reasons why a dedicated transport ship might make sense.

* It doesn't need to be tough enough to support a rocket landing on it
* It doesn't need to be able to stay flat and stable enough for a landing
* It doesn't need to operate autonomously
* A single ship can take multiple boosters
* A transport ship can be designed to travel significantly faster than a barge
* You can probably use the deeper hull of a ship to support the boosters better
* You can build cranes onto the ships themselves for loading/unloading boosters

Also, there are probably existing ships on the market that are not far off what they'd need, whereas I don't think anyone is selling autonomous barges.

[catdlr]

Need to review what Alex posted back, this may be for a short duration of a set of Starlinks that have this specific inclination.  It may be useful for a few other launches in the future.  The need for anything other than getting permission to land on barges is all we can anticipate for now.  Will just have to keep our eyes open for news from the island to indicate any further development than was reported.

[alugobi]

Well if you read the Press Release.  It sounds more like SpaceX will create something like a SpaceXland on one of the Islands near the landing zone.  So, in theory, The ASDS would be based out of "SpaceXland" going forward and boosters transferred to some sort of "fastbarge" for transit back to Cape.

Based there?  I don't understand that at all from that PR.  They're going to give them some spacecraft and suit googaws in something like a museum it appears. 

But landing the barge there?  I don't think so.  The boosters will land off shore within view, but, I suspect, still over the horizon.  And then the barge gets towed back to Florida as always.

[raptorx2]

Need to review what Alex posted back, this may be for a short duration of a set of Starlinks that have this specific inclination.  It may be useful for a few other launches in the future.  The need for anything other than getting permission to land on barges is all we can anticipate for now.  Will just have to keep our eyes open for news from the island to indicate any further development than was reported.

From what I have read.  There will be 840 D2D's in the first phase, then a follow on 840 in the second phase.

So 1680 D2D satellites going to 53 degrees. Divide that by an unknown D2D quantity per launch.  20? = 84 launches.
All Group 1 V1.0 and Group 4 V1.5  launches were to 53 degrees.  There has been a lot of discussion on how they make it to 140 launches in 2024, given the refurbishment time on the Western Range, and SLC-6 not available until mid-2025. 

Then only two ASDS ships on the Eastern Range supporting two launch pads (-RTLS).  Keeping a ASDS in the Bahamas in close proximity to the landing sight with facilities to transfer to a fast transport ship would increase cadence.  Plus, it would not strand the support ships/personal at sea for days due to an Abort/Delay.  IMO

[catdlr]

this may be for a short duration of a set of Starlinks that have this specific inclination.

From what I have read.  There will be 840 D2D's in the first phase, then a follow on 840 in the second phase.

So 1680 D2D satellites going to 53 degrees. Divide that by an unknown D2D quantity per launch.  20? = 84 launches.
All Group 1 V1.0 and Group 4 V1.5  launches were to 53 degrees.  There has been a lot of discussion on how they make it to 140 launches in 2024, given the refurbishment time on the Western Range, and SLC-6 not available until mid-2025. 

Then only two ASDS ships on the Eastern Range supporting two launch pads (-RTLS).  Keeping a ASDS in the Bahamas in close proximity to the landing sight with facilities to transfer to a fast transport ship would increase cadence.  Plus, it would not stand the support ships/personnel at sea for days due to an Abort/Delay.  IMO

Thanks raptorx2 for doing the numbers, that changes the dynamics.

[acsawdey]

I think a big question I have is whether there will be idiot boaters out for the F9 landings in the same way there were for the first Crew Dragon splashdown along the gulf coast. Landing far offshore in the Atlantic has a way of keeping the riff-raff out. This location is 14-18 miles from various islands all around it.

That's what mariner notices are for.

My point is, notices didn't prevent the Crew-1 situation. Will the lessons learned from that be picked up by a different nation's coast guard?

[catdlr]

https://twitter.com/TurkeyBeaver/status/1760411209587937562

Mega exciting to see the announcement of the letter of agreement between
@SpaceX
 and the Bahamas! This will enable falcon to land in Bahamian territorial waters and hopefully provide awesome droneship landing viewing opportunities. A huge shout out to @arbowe and @opmthebahamas for making it happen and also for visiting HQ on Monday!!!

News Release

[catdlr]

Comments from Alex:

https://twitter.com/Alexphysics13/status/1760413312548733161

This announcement came right as the company has started to file FCC permits for Starlink launches from the Cape using this new landing location in the middle of the Bahamas. Would be interesting to see if this could lead to other future agreements of the same sort🤔

These missions are essentially Starlink missions that go to the 53 degree shell of the Starlink Gen 2 constellation. To reach this orbital inclination without this special landing location would mean performing a dogleg around Bahamas that would reduce Falcon 9's performance

For this reason, these mission are currently only carried out from Vandenberg where there's only a teeny tiny dogleg. But now with this new landing location it means Falcon 9 can avoid having to perform a dogleg and go straight to 53 degrees in one go without losing performance.

[catdlr]

For reference, the map below denotes all the past StarLink landings off the northern side of the Bahama islands

Source

[catdlr]

Now that SpaceX can launch at 53 degrees inclinations these would be the approximate landing locations for southern and northern trajectories. Thanks to OneSpeed for providing the map.

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=45440.msg2570013#msg2570013

[TrevorMonty]

 

Then only two ASDS ships on the Eastern Range supporting two launch pads (-RTLS).  Keeping a ASDS in the Bahamas in close proximity to the landing sight with facilities to transfer to a fast transport ship would increase cadence.  Plus, it would not strand the support ships/personal at sea for days due to an Abort/Delay.  IMO

Killing time in the Bahamas between missions. Its a tough job but somebody has to do it.

[raptorx2]

It appears, that out of an abundance of caution.  SpaceX filed parallel Northbound trajectory Experimental Launch Communications Applications for the 5 flights they filed yesterday for the Southern Exuma trajectory.  7-28, 7-29, 7-30, 8-4, 8-5. 

As everyone knows, SpaceX applied yesterday to the FCC to permit launching into the 340km 53°, 345km 46°, 350km 38°, 360km 96.9° shells.  If/When approved, I would suspect West Coast pad will loft Starlinks to the 96.9° shell, while 39A/40 will perform the "Group 7, Group8" 53° shells.  No 70° shells in Gen.2

[raptorx2]

?  Since the ASDS ships will be operating in Bahamian Territorial Waters some of the time.  Could SpaceX test their Gateways in Motion on the ASDS ships under Bahamian Authority, since the FCC has not acted on their US application?

[raptorx2]

?  Since the ASDS ships will be operating in Bahamian Territorial Waters some of the time.  Could SpaceX test their Gateways in Motion on the ASDS ships under Bahamian Authority, since the FCC has not acted on their US application?

Update:  The FCC approved SpaceX Experimental Authority to operate "Gateways in Motion" in US Territorial Waters on 2/29/2024.

RE: Bahamas/Exuma

Quote for an interview with Elon Musk in 1999.

"I can buy one of the islands in Bahamas and turn it into my personal fiefdom. I’m much more interested in trying to build and create a new company,"

https://bigthink.com/the-future/elon-musk-interview-1999/

Sounds like buying an Island in the Bahamas has always been on his "Bucket List".

[matthewkantar]

?  Since the ASDS ships will be operating in Bahamian Territorial Waters some of the time.  Could SpaceX test their Gateways in Motion on the ASDS ships under Bahamian Authority, since the FCC has not acted on their US application?

Update:  The FCC approved SpaceX Experimental Authority to operate "Gateways in Motion" in US Territorial Waters on 2/29/2024.

RE: Bahamas/Exuma

Quote for an interview with Elon Musk in 1999.

"I can buy one of the islands in Bahamas and turn it into my personal fiefdom. I’m much more interested in trying to build and create a new company,"

https://bigthink.com/the-future/elon-musk-interview-1999/

Sounds like buying an Island in the Bahamas has always been on his "Bucket List".

Really? I didn’t listen to the interview, but from the quote it sounds like he is more interested in starting new companies than owning real estate.