Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : Booster 9/ Ship 25: Starbase, TX - DISCUSSION THREAD 3  (Read 135945 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

New Discussion Thread aligned to a potential launch is upcoming soon.

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https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=Starship

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There will be a master update only launch thread the second launch approval is in.

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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1720454891615695212

Quote
One watch item over the coming days. The explosives bunker for the FTS (Flight Termination System). The FTS will be armed on Starship very close to the launch date...to the point we'll know the launch date by then!

nsf.live/starbase

From tank watchers to bunker watchers?

Offline Tangilinear Interjar

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I was going to comment in the previous thread with a quotes from the numerous comments and complaints for emphasis but it's locked.

It seems most everyone commenting on the repeated de-stack/re-stack is complaining about it!

I love it!!!

SpaceX is taking apart and reassembling their rockets more often than a kid with his first two stage Estes!

I continue to marvel at the ease and simplicity of disassembly and assembly of this system, has there been any other rocket in the past that had this level of ease?

Oh yeah, and it happens to be the largest rocket ever built.

Online meekGee

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I was going to comment in the previous thread with a quotes from the numerous comments and complaints for emphasis but it's locked.

It seems most everyone commenting on the repeated de-stack/re-stack is complaining about it!

I love it!!!

SpaceX is taking apart and reassembling their rockets more often than a kid with his first two stage Estes!

I continue to marvel at the ease and simplicity of disassembly and assembly of this system, has there been any other rocket in the past that had this level of ease?

Oh yeah, and it happens to be the largest rocket ever built.
Same.  I remember arguments in the past about how rapid reuse is impossible because "even integrating the rocket takes several days".

This thing pops in and out like a cap on a pen.  Can't watch it enough times.
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Online DaveJ576

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I was going to comment in the previous thread with a quotes from the numerous comments and complaints for emphasis but it's locked.

It seems most everyone commenting on the repeated de-stack/re-stack is complaining about it!

I love it!!!

SpaceX is taking apart and reassembling their rockets more often than a kid with his first two stage Estes!

I continue to marvel at the ease and simplicity of disassembly and assembly of this system, has there been any other rocket in the past that had this level of ease?

Oh yeah, and it happens to be the largest rocket ever built.

Excellent point. Allow me to add that even in the unlikely event that SS/SH is a complete failure SpaceX has proven that rockets can be assembled and tested with an ease and rapidity unheard of in recent decades. The advantages are obvious, and that alone will change how the industry does business, in a good way.
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Offline CorvusCorax

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Very true. If the Starship.program were to be cancelled today, it'd still be a massive success for all the things it has demonstrated.

1. Largest rocket to ever fly.
2. First full flow stage combustion engine to fly.
3. Rapid hardware rich iterative development of a superheavy multi stage launch vehicle
4. The largest vehicle to ever land vertically and propulsively ( correct me if I'm wrong ) maybe also the heaviest
5. Largest number of engines on a launch vehicle.
6. Heaviest vehicle to fly, ever ( but not largest, Hindenburg had more volume)
7. Novel concept of belly flop+flip+ suicide burn
...
likely a few more

The starship program already massively advanced mankinds technology level. Now let it get to.orbit, demonstrate on orbit refueling and


... to the moon!

Then Mars!
« Last Edit: 11/03/2023 05:55 pm by CorvusCorax »

Offline Alberto-Girardi

SpaceX, on their website ( https://www.spacex.com/launches/mission/?missionId=starship-flight-2 ) just made public the countdown sequence for the second flight.
Does anyone have a screenshot of the countdown of flight one? I searched for it months ago but I had no luck.
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Offline oiorionsbelt

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Is this a new definition for MECO?  :)

Offline StevenOBrien

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Is this a new definition for MECO?  :)

Well, it's an improvement on the "maybe engines cut off" from IFT-1  ;D

Offline DistantTemple

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Is this a new definition for MECO?  :)

Well, it's an improvement on the "maybe engines cut off" from IFT-1  ;D
"Mainly Engines Cut Off" or MMECO, "Most Main Engines Cut Off"
« Last Edit: 11/03/2023 07:25 pm by DistantTemple »
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Offline alugobi

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They're going to stream it on their website in addition to twitter, so that's a plus. 
« Last Edit: 11/03/2023 08:50 pm by alugobi »

Offline clongton

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Is this a new definition for MECO?  :)

Life gets in the way of tradition.
With Super Heavy, MECO no longer means "Main Engine Cut Off". Perhaps MECO should be a 3-event callout:

1. BECO - is "Booster Engines Cut Off" (outer ring of engines)
2. followed by "Stage Separation"
3. SECO - is "Sustainer Engines Cut Off" (inner rings from hot staging)

Or, just call out the events without giving them acronyms.
« Last Edit: 11/03/2023 07:55 pm by clongton »
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Offline whitelancer64

*snip*
5. Largest number of engines on a launch vehicle.
*snip*

Not the largest number of engines to have flown on a launch vehicle. The N-1 still holds that distinction.

It had 30 first stage engines, 8 second stage engines, 4 third stage engines, and 1 fourth stage engine, for a total of 43 engines.
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Offline dabomb6608

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https://www.spacex.com/launches/mission/?missionId=starship-flight-2

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The second flight test of a fully integrated Starship could launch as soon as mid-November, pending regulatory approval.

A live webcast of the flight test will begin about 30 minutes before liftoff, which you can watch here and on X @SpaceX. As is the case with all developmental testing, the schedule is dynamic and likely to change, so be sure to stay tuned to our X account for updates.

Starship’s first flight test provided numerous lessons learned that directly contributed to several upgrades to both the vehicle and ground infrastructure to improve the probability of success on future flights. The second flight test will debut a hot-stage separation system and a new electronic Thrust Vector Control (TVC) system for Super Heavy Raptor engines, in addition to reinforcements to the pad foundation and a water-cooled steel flame deflector, among many other enhancements.

This rapid iterative development approach has been the basis for all of SpaceX’s major innovative advancements, including Falcon, Dragon, and Starlink. Recursive improvement is essential as we work to build a fully reusable transportation system capable of carrying both crew and cargo to Earth orbit, help humanity return to the Moon, and ultimately travel to Mars and beyond.

Quote
HR/MIN/SEC   EVENT
02:00:00   SpaceX Flight Director conducts poll and verifies GO for propellant load
01:37:00   Booster LOX (liquid oxygen) load underway
01:37:00   Booster fuel load (liquid methane) underway
01:17:00   Ship fuel load (liquid methane) underway
01:13:00   Ship LOX load underway
00:19:40   Raptor begins engine chill on booster and ship
00:00:10   Flame deflector activation
00:00:03   Raptor ignition sequence begins
00:00:00   Excitement guaranteed

Quote
HR/MIN/SEC   EVENT
00:00:02   Liftoff
00:00:52   Max Q (moment of peak mechanical stress on the rocket)
00:02:39   Booster MECO (most engines cut off)
00:02:41   Hot-staging (Starship Raptor ignition and stage separation)
00:02:53   Booster boostback burn startup
00:03:47   Booster boostback burn shutdown
00:06:18   Booster is transonic
00:06:30   Booster landing burn startup
00:06:48   Booster landing burn shutdown
00:08:33   Starship engine cutoff
01:17:21   Starship entry
01:28:43   Starship is transonic
01:30:00   An exciting landing!


Potentially noteworthy that they appear to not be attempting a reignition/soft vertical landing of the ship into the ocean? Or at least the graphic from this post appears to show that.

Edit: Assuming they get that far obviously.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2023 12:12 am by dabomb6608 »

Offline chopsticks

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Well on IFT1 they kind of had MECO as well, using the new definition!  Hopefully this time it's a bit more planned.

Online InterestedEngineer

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PDF of online press kit.

The flip rotates in the wrong direction.  It's cheapest to boost a little altitude on the burn back (sin/cos and parabola math)

Offline jimvela

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The flip rotates in the wrong direction.  It's cheapest to boost a little altitude on the burn back (sin/cos and parabola math)

I had to study the graphic a bit to agree...  The flip maneuver is shown correctly, but the boostback is shown in an interstage towards earth nadir attitude.  That has to be wrong.


Online Twark_Main

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PDF of online press kit.

The flip rotates in the wrong direction.  It's cheapest to boost a little altitude on the burn back (sin/cos and parabola math)

If they were boosting back to the launch site, this would of course be correct.

For this flight their only goal should be for the booster to survive reentry and return some test data. In that case the optimum trajectory would actually burn slightly toward the ground, as shown. This has the effect of reducing the vertical component of reentry velocity.

In some cases this could also move the reentry point closer to land, making it easier for SpaceX to position their test assets. However this is only true IF the reentry occurs downrange from stage separation, and I don't know if that's the case for OFT-2.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2023 01:57 am by Twark_Main »

Offline JCopernicus

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I think it's explained in the last attempt thread.

I had brought that up too.

Offline jimvela

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PDF of online press kit.

The flip rotates in the wrong direction.  It's cheapest to boost a little altitude on the burn back (sin/cos and parabola math)

If they were boosting back to the launch site, this would of course be correct.

Agreed

Quote
For this flight their only goal should be for the booster to survive reentry and return some test data. In that case the optimum trajectory would actually burn slightly toward the ground, as shown. This has the effect of reducing the vertical component of reentry velocity.
Why wouldn't they null out the downrange component, coast up through the top of the ascent, orient for maximum drag on the way down, then do a "chopsticks landing" burn at approach to the water surface?  Doesn't that incorporate the most elements from the nominal return to chopsticks path, buying down the most risk?

Edit to add- doesn't SS/SH stage lower and slower than F9, avoiding at least most of the need for an entry burn or nulling burn to reduce the vertical component added post-separation?

It's an interesting thing to think about.
« Last Edit: 11/04/2023 02:08 am by jimvela »

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