Author Topic: Blue origin photos and video  (Read 8562 times)

Offline josh_simonson

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Blue origin photos and video
« on: 01/03/2007 07:23 PM »

http://public.blueorigin.com/index.html

 

Wow!  That thing is huge.  From the lack fire it looks like it's a peroxide mono-propellant rocket though.

 It's also got a 9x cluster of engines just like the falcon 9.  Looks like the got the shocks on the landing gear right too.  ;)

 From the request for resume's of people experience in turbomachinery, it looks like he intends to develop a high-performance engine.


Offline Rifleman

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #1 on: 01/03/2007 08:14 PM »
That is an impressive demonstration, and it is great to actually see new space fly something.  Does anyone know what the scale of this test vehicle is compared to the New Shepard?

Offline hektor

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #2 on: 01/03/2007 08:51 PM »
To get to 100 km you need a mass of 20-30 tons I guess.

Offline GraphGuy

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #3 on: 01/03/2007 09:13 PM »
That thing has good shock absorbers- it looks like it landed a bit hard.

Also, they get the award for the loudest rocket.  Those movies are hella loud- like the thing is banshee powered.

When do you think it can launch the CEV?  ;)

Offline hyper_snyper

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #4 on: 01/03/2007 09:23 PM »
Cool stuff.  I had no idea they were keeping this much a secret.

The photos of their Kent facility are great.  It would be incredible to work there.

Offline PurduesUSAFguy

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #5 on: 01/03/2007 09:53 PM »
That thing looks big enough, it makes me wonder if they are intending to use it as the first stage or a reusable orbital system. I was really impressed, I wasn't expecting something that big at all, I was thinking more X-Prize cup sized.

Might have to send Blue Orgin my resume'.

Offline josh_simonson

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #6 on: 01/03/2007 10:22 PM »
Yeah, that vehicle might have been able to win the lunar lander challenge.  The monopropellant engines may have lacked the thrust/ISP to make the hover times though.

Perhaps they'll compete next year.

In building such a large peroxide rocket system, perhaps they intend to use peroxide in favor of LOX?  H2O2/propylene is supposed to have a higher ISP than LOX/RP-1.

Offline publiusr

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #7 on: 01/05/2007 04:34 PM »
Here is the link as clickable:
http://public.blueorigin.com/index.html

It is of impressive size. Put it atop Ares V (with heavy modifications of course) and you have a lander---perhaps.

Offline Mogster

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #8 on: 01/06/2007 01:55 PM »
It is an impressive vid, got some coverage in the UK press as well.

The site seems to say that the vehicle in the vid is intended for sub orbital SS1 type flights. No mention of orbital or mounting on top of a another launch system that I can see.

Offline imfan

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #9 on: 01/06/2007 02:12 PM »
is there somewhere more of technical info on this? weight, thrust, ISP, fuel mass?

Offline CriX

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #10 on: 01/09/2007 02:46 PM »
That's fantastic!  I thought they were "all paper," but it turns out they've got hardware in the air.  Nice!  I'm assuming that's the full size 100km craft.  I wonder how high they've taken it so far.

And I agree about the landing... looked like quite the jolt.

Offline Comga

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #11 on: 01/10/2007 02:59 AM »
I think people are getting carried away and are projecting their wishes onto this machine.

It is not a lunar lander.
It is not a first stage.
It is not a booster.
Is it not going to be manned.
It is not going to 100km.
It is not even going to be entered into the Lunar Lander challenge, because high strength hydrogen peroxide is not allowed.

It is a technical stepping stone, and a darn good one.  It may be capable of a lot more than 0.1km altitude, and we may see that.  I hope we see it soon.  It is a fine machine just as it is, and that was a great flight just as it was.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline CriX

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #12 on: 01/10/2007 01:37 PM »
"Our first objective is developing New Shepard, a vertical take-off, vertical-landing vehicle designed to take a small number of astronauts on a sub-orbital journey into space.

On the morning of November 13, 2006, we launched and landed Goddard a first development vehicle in the New Shepard program. "

Ah yes, I read over this too quickly.  That was just a development vehicle.  Still good to see real hardware though.

Offline meiza

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #13 on: 01/10/2007 05:30 PM »
At least it kinda verified some part of the flight software... That's important.

Note that with a reusable vehicle, you can fly it again and again and again... (until you crash, like John Carmack likes to point out.)

Offline Danderman

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #14 on: 01/10/2007 10:54 PM »
Quote
Comga - 9/1/2007  7:42 PM

It is a technical stepping stone, and a darn good one.  It may be capable of a lot more than 0.1km altitude, and we may see that.  I hope we see it soon.  It is a fine machine just as it is, and that was a great flight just as it was.

What this seems to be is DC-X v 2.0, albeit with monoprop instead of LH2.

Offline imcub

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #15 on: 01/10/2007 11:53 PM »
Quote
Comga
- 9/1/2007 7:42 PM

It is not even going to be entered into the Lunar Lander challenge,because high strength hydrogen peroxide is not allowed.


Why no hydrogen peroxide?  Perhaps it doesn't contain enough BTU's per pound to make it a good fuel when weight is critical?





Offline jimvela

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #16 on: 01/11/2007 02:07 AM »

Quote
imcub - 10/1/2007  5:36 PM

Quote
Comga
- 9/1/2007 7:42 PM
It is not even going to be entered into the Lunar Lander challenge,because high strength hydrogen peroxide is not allowed.

Why no hydrogen peroxide?  Perhaps it doesn't contain enough BTU's per pound to make it a good fuel when weight is critical?

It is my understanding that it is due to pure H2O2 being very hazardous, much like the reason that they don't allow hydrazine...

Take a look at the wikipedia page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide

Taking a small snippet from that page:


Hazards

Hydrogen peroxide, either in pure or diluted form, can pose several risks:

  • Above roughly 70% concentrations, hydrogen peroxide can give off vapor that can detonate above 70 °C (158 °F) at normal atmospheric pressure. This can then cause a BLEVE of the remaining liquid. Distillation of hydrogen peroxide at normal pressures is thus highly dangerous, and must be avoided.
  • Hydrogen peroxide vapors can form sensitive contact explosives with hydrocarbons such as greases. Hazardous reactions ranging from ignition to explosion have been reported with alcohols, ketones, carboxylic acids (particularly acetic acid), amines and phosphorus. The saying is 'peroxides kill chemists'.
  • Hydrogen peroxide, if spilled on clothing (or other flammable materials), will preferentially evaporate water until the concentration reaches sufficient strength, then clothing will spontaneously ignite. Leather generally contains metal ions from the tanning process and will often catch fire almost immediately.[10]
  • Concentrated hydrogen peroxide (>50%) is corrosive, and even domestic-strength solutions can cause irritation to the eyes, mucous membranes and skin. Swallowing hydrogen peroxide solutions is particularly dangerous, as decomposition in the stomach releases large quantities of gas (10 times the volume of a 3% solution) leading to internal bleeding. Severe pulmonary irritation by inhalation over 10%.

 


Offline refsmmat

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #17 on: 01/12/2007 12:15 PM »
Remember Gene Cernan and his steel woven EVA trousers on Gemini 9?

Offline aero313

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #18 on: 01/12/2007 02:36 PM »
Quote
jimvela - 10/1/2007  9:50 PM

It is my understanding that it is due to pure H2O2 being very hazardous, much like the reason that they don't allow hydrazine...

1)  Don't believe everything you read on the internet

2)  Hydrazine is SIGNIFICANTLY more dangerous than peroxide (in any concentration)

3)  Look up the hazards of gasoline sometime and compare them to your posting on the hazards of peroxide

Offline Danderman

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Re: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #19 on: 01/12/2007 04:28 PM »
Just about all rocket fuels and oxidizers are nasty, its the nature of the beast. Even LOX and kerosene are problematic under the wrong circumstances.

Offline publiusr

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Offline hop

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RE: Blue origin photos and video
« Reply #21 on: 01/13/2007 03:32 AM »
Quote
jimvela - 10/1/2007  6:50 PM
It is my understanding that it is due to pure H2O2 being very hazardous, much like the reason that they don't allow hydrazine...
That's a bit strange, given that a H202 powered rocketbelt was one of the main attractions at XPC '06.  I'm not sure what concentration the current "rocketman" belt uses, but the ISTR original Bell belt used 90%.

Nevertheless, that seems to be what the rules say http://www.xprize.org/assets/downloads/newsevents/LLC_Rules-2006-07-06.pdf
Quote
A.3.9.1 The following fuels and oxidizers shall be considered safe for operation at the Competition Venue: ethane, ethyl alcohol, gaseous oxygen, hydrogen, H20, H202 in concentrations less than or equal to 70%, isopropyl alcohol, kerosene, liquid oxygen, methane, N20, propane, butane.

A.3.9.2 The following fuels and oxidizers shall be considered unsafe for operation at the Competition Venue: H202 in concentrations greater than 70%, nitric acid, hydrazine, unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine, monomethylhydrazine, any hypergolic propellant combination.
It's hard to see H202 presenting more hazard to spectators while in flight than lox/hydrocarbon.  Given that either one can go BOOM in a mishap, the crowd has to be well beyond the range that could potentially bring them into contact with much propellant. Unlike hydrazine, a relatively distant mishap would be unlikely to present a poison risk.

XPC may feel that storage and handling present more risk, or perhaps there are regulatory issues at their site which rule it out.

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