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#420
by
anik
on 14 Mar, 2010 15:03
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Yes, Stan Black. Proton-K launch on December 26, 2004 was the last launch from 81/23. Proton-K launch on December 25, 2005 was from 81/24.
Also Proton-K launch on October 17, 2002 was from 200/39, not from 81/23 as Nicolas PILLET writes on his website.
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#421
by
Stan Black
on 15 Mar, 2010 11:56
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#422
by
Nicolas PILLET
on 15 Mar, 2010 17:33
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Just browsing Nicolas Pillet's excellent website.
Thank you Stan Black !
And thanks to Anik too !
Mistakes are corrected now.
Anik, did you mean that launch pad 23 will never hoist any launch again ?
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#423
by
anik
on 15 Mar, 2010 19:44
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When were they delivered?
Soyuz-2 - September 25, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - December 3, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - March 9. One Soyuz-FG is for Kanopus-V #1 satellite. I did not see when this rocket has arrived to Baikonur.
Anik, did you mean that launch pad 23 will never hoist any launch again?
Yes, I was told so. Launch pad 81/23 is for Proton-K launches only, and there will be only one Proton-K launch in future. It is very expensive to modernize this launch pad for Proton-M.
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#424
by
aquarius
on 02 Apr, 2010 07:33
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Why does it take Soyuz 2 days to reach the ISS or Mir in the past, whereas it took only 1 day to get to Salyut stations?
Thanks.
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#425
by
pm1823
on 02 Apr, 2010 09:57
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Why does it take Soyuz 2 days to reach the ISS or Mir in the past, whereas it took only 1 day to get to Salyut stations?
Thanks.
1. Salyuts had some less average orbit height.
2. all Progresses and Soyuz-T13 did the '34 orbits phasing' to Salyuts, same like current SCs.
3. More time for a phasing (34 orbits vs 18 orbits) gives you more available launch windows in a year, so, gives you the much more flexible launch schedule, which is very desirable for the big station and intensive flight program.
4.Less fuel spending on phasing, so, you can spend more for docking(adds probability to mission success) and for deorbit (adds crew safety).
5. Not a such big difference in the crew morale and health state between 18 and 34 orbits.
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#426
by
Stan Black
on 02 Apr, 2010 21:15
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Anik, did you mean that launch pad 23 will never hoist any launch again?
Yes, I was told so. Launch pad 81/23 is for Proton-K launches only, and there will be only one Proton-K launch in future. It is very expensive to modernize this launch pad for Proton-M.
Tender for extending the life of the launch systems in 2010
http://www.federalspace.ru/download/2010_03_29_start.doc
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#427
by
Stan Black
on 03 Apr, 2010 09:35
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When were they delivered?
Soyuz-2 - September 25, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - December 3, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - March 9. One Soyuz-FG is for Kanopus-V #1 satellite. I did not see when this rocket has arrived to Baikonur.
Was it sent along with the Soyuz for MIM2 Poisk?
Is that what the tender was for?
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=15&did=347
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#428
by
Stan Black
on 17 Apr, 2010 12:24
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Does anyone know the 11S861 DM-2 serial numbers used to launch:-
| Kosmos-2345 | 14th August 1997 |
| Globus-1 15L | 28th February 1999 |
| GLONASS | 13th October 2000 |
| Globus-1 14L | 6th October 2001 |
| GLONASS | 1st December 2001 |
| 1L | GLONASS block 1 | October 1982 | 61L | US-KS Kosmos-2209 | September 1992 |
| 2L | GLONASS block 2 | August 1983 | 62L | Raduga 43L | December 1994 |
| 3L | GLONASS block 4 | May 1984 | 63L | GLONASS block 20 | July 1992 |
| 4L | GLONASS block 3 | December 1983 | 64L | 71Kh6 7121 Kosmos-2224 | December 1992 |
| 5L | GLONASS block 5 | September 1984 | 65L | Gоrizоnt 38L | November 1992 |
| 6L | Tselina-2 Kosmos-1603 | September 1984 | 66L | GLONASS block 21 | February 1993 |
| 7L | GLONASS block 6 | May 1985 | 67L | Raduga 42L | March 1993 |
| 8L | Tselina-2 Kosmos-1656 | May 1985 | 68L | 71Kh6 7123 Kosmos-2282 | July 1994 |
| 9L | Al’tair 11L Kosmos-1700 | October 1985 | 69L | Gоrizоnt 39L | May 1993 |
| 10L | GLONASS block 8 | September 1986 | 70L | GLONASS block 22 | April 1994 |
| 11L | GLONASS block 7 | December 1985 | 71L | Gоrizоnt 42L | May 1994 |
| 12L | US-KS Kosmos-1940 | April 1988 | 72L | Gоrizоnt 40L | October 1993 |
| 13L | GLONASS block 12 | May 1988 | 73L | Raduga 40L | February 1994 |
| 14L | Geizer 15L Kosmos-1888 | October 1987 | 74L | GLONASS block 23 | August 1994 |
| 15L | Gоrizоnt 28L | August 1988 | 75L | Al’tair 13L Luch | December 1994 |
| 16L | Glоbus-1 11L | June 1989 | 76L | GLONASS block 25 | March 1995 |
| 17L | Ekran-M 11L Kosmos-1817 | January 1987 | 77L | GLONASS block 26 | July 1995 |
| 18L | GLONASS block 9 | April 1987 | 78L | Geizer 20L Kosmos-2319 | August 1995 |
| 19L | Ekran-M 12L | December 1988 | 79L | Luch-1 | October 1995 |
| 20L | Gоrizоnt 29L | January 1989 | 80L | GLONASS block 27 | December 1995 |
| 21L | Gоrizоnt 25L | January 1988 | 81L | Gоrizоnt 43L | January 1996 |
| 22L | Raduga 33L | April 1989 | 82L | Raduga 44L | February 1996 |
| 23L | Raduga 36L | December 1989 | 83L | Glоbus-1 13L | February 1994 |
| 24L | Geizer 17L Kosmos-2085 | July 1990 | 84L | | |
| 25L | Gоrizоnt 27L | July 1989 | 85L | Gоrizоnt 41L | November 1993 |
| 26L | GLONASS block 10 | September 1987 | 86L | Geizer 19L Kosmos-2291 | September 1994 |
| 27L | Gоrizоnt 31L | September 1989 | 87L | Glоbus-1 16L | August 2000 |
| 28L | US-KS Kosmos-1894 | October 1987 | 88L | | |
| 29L | Al’tair 12L Kosmos-1897 | November 1987 | 89L | Ekspress-А3 | June 2000 |
| 30L | Raduga 32L | December 1987 | 90L | Geizer 22L Kosmos-2371 | July 2000 |
| 31L | Ekran-M 13L | December 1987 | 91L | | |
| 32L | GLONASS block 11 | February 1988 | 92L | GLONASS block 28 | December 1998 |
| 33L | Geizer 16L Kosmos-1961 | August 1988 | 93L | | |
| 34L | Al’tair 14L Kosmos-2054 | December 1989 | 94L | Gals 12L | November 1995 |
| 35L | Gоrizоnt 32L | November 1990 | 95L | GLONASS block 31 | December 2002 |
| 36L | Raduga 41L | September 1993 | 96L | 71Kh6 7122 Kosmos-2350 | April 1998 |
| 37L | GLONASS block 16 | May 1990 | 97L | GLONASS block 24 | November 1994 |
| 38L | 71Kh6 7120 Kosmos-2133 | February 1991 | 98L | 71Kh6 7126 Kosmos-2397 | April 2003 |
| 39L | GLONASS block 15 | May 1989 | 99L | 71Kh6 7124 Kosmos-2379 | August 2001 |
| 40L | Raduga 34L | October 1988 | 100L | Gоrizоnt 44L | May 1996 |
| 41L | Raduga 35L | February 1990 | 101L | | |
| 42L | GLONASS block 14 | January 1989 | 102L | Ekspress-А1 | October 1999 |
| 43L | GLONASS block 13 | September 1988 | 103L | Ekspress-АM3 | June 2005 |
| 44L | Ekran-M 14L | August 1990 | 104L | GLONASS block 33 | December 2004 |
| 45L | Gоrizоnt 33L | November 1990 | 105L | Glоbus-1 17L | March 2004 |
| 46L | Glоbus-1 12L | December 1990 | 106L | GLONASS block 34 | December 2005 |
| 47L | GLONASS block 17 | December 1990 | 107L | Glоbus-1 18L | February 2009 |
| 48L | Raduga 37L | December 1990 | 108L | GLONASS block 35 | December 2006 |
| 49L | Raduga 38L | February 1991 | 109L | GLONASS block 37 | December 2007 |
| 50L | Gоrizоnt 34L | July 1991 | 110L | GLONASS block 36 | October 2007 |
| 51L | Geizer 18L Kosmos-2172 | November 1991 | 111L | 71Kh6 7127 Kosmos-2440 | June 2008 |
| 52L | Raduga 39L | December 1991 | 112L | GLONASS block 38 | September 2008 |
| 53L | GLONASS block 18 | April 1991 | 113L | | |
| 54L | US-KS Kosmos-2155 | September 1991 | 114L | GLONASS block 39 | December 2008 |
| 55L | Gоrizоnt 35L | October 1991 | 115L | GLONASS block 41 | December 2009 |
| 56L | Elektrо | October 1994 | 116L | GLONASS block 40 | March 2010 |
| 57L | Gоrizоnt 36L | April 1992 | 117L | | |
| 58L | Ekran-M 15L | October 1992 | | | |
| 59L | GLONASS block 19 | January 1992 | | | |
| 60L | Gоrizоnt 37L | July 1992 | | | |
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#429
by
anik
on 17 Apr, 2010 13:10
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84 - 28.02.1999, 88 - 14.08.1997, 91 - 13.10.2000, 93 - 06.10.2001, 101 - 01.12.2001, 117 - 2010 (TBD), 118 - 10.08.2010.
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#430
by
Stan Black
on 17 Apr, 2010 14:06
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So what about the DM serial numbers for Kupon, Astra-2C and DIRECTV-5?
| DM2-2M | 1L | Ekspress 11L | 5L | - | 9L | SESAT | 13L | Ekspress-AM22 |
| 11S861-01 | 2L | Ekspress 12L | 6L | - | 10L | Ekspress-A2 | 14L | Ekspress-AM11 |
| 3L | Gals 11L | 7L | - | 11L | Ekspress-A4 | 15L | Ekspress-AM1 |
| 4L | Yamal-100 | 8L | - | 12L | Yamal-200 | 16L | Ekspress-AM2 |
|
| DM3 | 1L | Astra-1F | 9L | Astra-2A | 17L | Sirius-FM3 | 25L | |
| 2L | Astra-1G | 10L | PAS-8 | 18L | LMI-1 | 26L | |
| 3L | PAS-5 | 11L | Nimiq-1 | 19L | GE-6 | 27L | |
| 4L | TELSTAR-6 | 12L | ASIASAT-3S | 20L | ECHOSTAR-8 | 28L | INTELSAT-903 |
| 5L | ASIASAT-3 | 13L | GE-1A | 21L | | 29L | Sirius-FM1 |
| 6L | PAS-10 | 14L | | 22L | Sirius-FM2 | 30L | |
| 7L | ECHOSTAR-4 | 15L | Garuda-1 | 23L | KAZSAT-1 | 31L | |
| 8L | Astra-1H | 16L | | 24L | Astra-1K | | |
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#431
by
anik
on 18 Apr, 2010 08:24
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8, 27, 21.
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#432
by
mdo
on 26 Apr, 2010 13:29
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What is the dry mass of the Breeze-M Auxiliary Propellant Tank APT and that of the core stage respectively?
Context:
When fitting the recent Proton launches with payloads such as SES-1 and Intelsat-16 as described in the ILS mission overviews with my Breeze-M performance model I get a satisfactory match, however, only after making a few assumptions:
1. APT dry/fuel mass 950/14600 kg
2. Breeze-M dry/fuel mass 2370/5200 kg (2370 includes APT dry)
3. the Breeze core is not always filled to the top depending on mission
4. satellite adapter is carried in addition 115-150 kg
Neither the
Proton Mission Planner's Guide nor other sources on the web helped to confirm/clarify this with a complete and consistent set of numbers in one place. Maybe this is also due to my lack of Russian language skills
Related points of interest:
5. Are the 4 Verniers fed from the core only or also from the APT?
6. Can the S5.98M motor consume fuel from core and APT in the same burn?
The last two items 5-6 arise because on some missions more than 14.600 kg fuel appear to be consumed prior to APT separation (e.g.
AsiaSat-5 launch with 2501 s accumulated burn time prior to APT sep.).
Clarification of any of above points would be much appreciated.
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#433
by
Danderman
on 28 Apr, 2010 04:34
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The Breeze-KM upper stage used on Eurockot is very similar to the Breeze used on Proton. The Eurockot User Manual gives a dry mass for Breeze-KM of 1600 kg.
As whether the main engine and vernier share the same prop tanks, I do not know for sure, but the Russian practice is to separate the tanks.
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#434
by
mdo
on 29 Apr, 2010 00:49
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Here is an update after fitting some 15 ILS Proton M/Breeze M missions flown in the past 2 years:
1. Breeze-M core dry/fuel mass 1550/5200 kg
2. APT dry/fuel mass 950/14600 kg
3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg
The accumulated burn times before and after Auxiliary Propellant Tank (APT) separation vary significantly from launch to launch: Ranges found in the ILS provided mission overviews are 1959-2521 s before and 617-741 s after jettison. There was even a 3-burn mission with just 370 s of Breeze core usage. I suspect that fuel loading of the APT and core stage may vary by 3+ mT.
Furthermore, the APT capacity can support burns <2400 s. This is regularly exceeded prior to APT separation. That raises the question whether the S5.98/14D30 engine performance of 19.62 kN and an Isp of 326 s is accurate or whether some other dynamic element comes into play.
Also, the four 11D458 Vernier thrusters provide some 4x400 N. Whether they operate continuously and what fuel budget they have got is causing further uncertainty.
Obviously the final burn is very sensitive to the dry mass of the Breeze-M core. At 1600 kg as per Eurockot manual for the Breeze-KM version (thanks to Danderman for the reference) my model underperforms. 1550 kg barely works with zero margin. Maybe the satellite adapter (110-155 kg) is integrated in the figure of 1600 kg after all.
To conclude, the assumptions given in the previous post still hold and the uncertainties remain. The level of reverse engineering involved is way too much to be confident in these numbers.
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#435
by
Danderman
on 29 Apr, 2010 14:20
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3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg
A good rule of thumb for a payload adapter is 3% - 5% of payload mass. In this case, the payload is quite heavy, as its filled with prop - the GEO mass of the satellite may be only 2 tons and change, but the GTO mass lifted by Proton is much higher, and the payload adapter must support the GTO mass, not the GEO mass.
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#436
by
mdo
on 29 Apr, 2010 14:47
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3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg
A good rule of thumb for a payload adapter is 3% - 5% of payload mass. In this case, the payload is quite heavy, as its filled with prop - the GEO mass of the satellite may be only 2 tons and change, but the GTO mass lifted by Proton is much higher, and the payload adapter must support the GTO mass, not the GEO mass.
The adapter mass is taken from the Proton Mission Planner's Guide. Table 4.1.4-1 lists the various payload adapter versions in the range 110-155 kg. Since the mission overviews do not specify which version is used there results an uncertainty of 155-110=45 kg. This is why it is mentioned.
The ILS mission overviews state the
separated mass, i.e., that clearly sounds like GTO mass.
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#437
by
Stan Black
on 04 May, 2010 15:52
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Can anyone help me complete the following list of 14A05 Rokot launchers?
15S300
Serial | Briz-KM
14S45
Serial |
Payload |
| | 72501 | 813IP/003
813IP/007 |
| | 72505 | GRACE-1
GRACE-2 |
| 4925882034 | 72502 | Iridium SV97
Iridium SV98 |
| 5111992008П | 72503 | MOST
MIMOSA |
| 4921921121 | 72506 | SERVIS-1 |
| 4925882030 | 72507 | Monitor-E |
| 6307223115 | 72508 | CRYOSAT |
| 4925882032 | 72504 | KOMPSAT-2 |
| 5113922114 | 72509 | Kosmos 2437 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2438 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2439 17F13 Strela-3
Jubilejnyj |
| | 72511 | GOCE |
| 4921791573 | 72510 | Kosmos 2451 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2452 14F132 Rodnik
Kosmos 2453 17F13 Strela-3 |
| 4925882033 | 72513 | SMOS
Proba-2 |
| 5111992007П | 72516 | SERVIS-2 |
| 6309793567 | 72514 | Gonets-M 12L
Kosmos 2467 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2468 14F132 Rodnik |
| 6309793568 | 72517 | GEO-IK-2 11L |
| 4926391835 | 72515 | Gonets-M 13L
Gonets-M 14L
14F132 Rodnik
Jubilejnyj 2 |
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#438
by
Stan Black
on 21 Jun, 2010 08:31
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Here is an update after fitting some 15 ILS Proton M/Breeze M missions flown in the past 2 years:
1. Breeze-M core dry/fuel mass 1550/5200 kg
2. APT dry/fuel mass 950/14600 kg
3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg
The accumulated burn times before and after Auxiliary Propellant Tank (APT) separation vary significantly from launch to launch: Ranges found in the ILS provided mission overviews are 1959-2521 s before and 617-741 s after jettison. There was even a 3-burn mission with just 370 s of Breeze core usage. I suspect that fuel loading of the APT and core stage may vary by 3+ mT.
Furthermore, the APT capacity can support burns <2400 s. This is regularly exceeded prior to APT separation. That raises the question whether the S5.98/14D30 engine performance of 19.62 kN and an Isp of 326 s is accurate or whether some other dynamic element comes into play.
Also, the four 11D458 Vernier thrusters provide some 4x400 N. Whether they operate continuously and what fuel budget they have got is causing further uncertainty.
Obviously the final burn is very sensitive to the dry mass of the Breeze-M core. At 1600 kg as per Eurockot manual for the Breeze-KM version (thanks to Danderman for the reference) my model underperforms. 1550 kg barely works with zero margin. Maybe the satellite adapter (110-155 kg) is integrated in the figure of 1600 kg after all.
To conclude, the assumptions given in the previous post still hold and the uncertainties remain. The level of reverse engineering involved is way too much to be confident in these numbers.
Briz maximum burn time 1,000 seconds
http://www.eurockot.com/pb-pic/20041083.pdfSo if there is upto 14,600 kg in the extenal APT / ДТБ and the Briz core has up to 5,200 kg; then external tank should be able to provide 2,808 seconds of burn time?
СОЗ vernier timings timings can be found in
http://coopi.khrunichev.ru under ‘newsposting’.
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#439
by
mdo
on 21 Jun, 2010 20:47
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СОЗ vernier timings timings can be found in http://coopi.khrunichev.ru under ‘newsposting’.
That is a fabulous source. It surely is more detailed than I could have hoped for. It will likely help to narrow things down in a quiet hour. Thanks Stan Black.
Briz maximum burn time 1,000 seconds
http://www.eurockot.com/pb-pic/20041083.pdf
So if there is upto 14,600 kg in the extenal APT / ДТБ and the Briz core has up to 5,200 kg; then external tank should be able to provide 2,808 seconds of burn time?
- as per table 2-8 the propellant mass is 3300 + 1665 = 4995 kg
- adding the fuel required by the Verniers to produce the advertized total impulse of 4 x 141120 Ns one gets to about 5200 kg; that would explain where the figure 5200 comes from
- the given isp 325.5s and total impulse 2 x 10^7 Ns pin down the max. burn time to 797 s, where burn time = total impulse / (isp * g)
It would take 6.263 kg of propellants to produce a total impulse of 20 MNs. Table 2-5 in the Eurockot manual gives a total impulse of
2 x 107 Ns which is most likely a misprint in the exponent. Apart from that there is no free parameter to explain the discrepancy of 6263-4995=1268kg. This makes me believe that the max. burn time of 1000 s is an engine specification, rather than an actually achievable performance parameter in the given configuration.
One can extrapolate the increase in burn time based on an APT capacity of 14600 kg as (14600/4995) * 797 = 2330 s. Then the total burn time of the Breeze-M is 797 + 2330 = 3127 s, give or take a few seconds. Remember the assumption that the Breeze-KM numbers in the Eurockot manual dated Nov. 2004 are applicable to the Breeze-M as used with the Proton.
Related points of interest: