Author Topic: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A  (Read 400288 times)

Offline anik

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #420 on: 03/14/2010 03:03 PM »
Yes, Stan Black. Proton-K launch on December 26, 2004 was the last launch from 81/23. Proton-K launch on December 25, 2005 was from 81/24.

Also Proton-K launch on October 17, 2002 was from 200/39, not from 81/23 as Nicolas PILLET writes on his website.
« Last Edit: 03/14/2010 03:08 PM by anik »

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #421 on: 03/15/2010 11:56 AM »
Quote
С прибытием новых ракет "Союз", общее число ракет этого семейства, находящихся сейчас на Байконуре возросло до шести: три ракеты-носителя "Союз-ФГ", две ракеты "Союз-У" и одна "Союз-2".
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=2&nid=9618
http://www.rian.ru/science/20100310/213354940.html

At the moment there are six Soyuz rockets in Baikonur.

When were they delivered?
« Last Edit: 03/15/2010 12:19 PM by Stan Black »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #422 on: 03/15/2010 05:33 PM »
Just browsing Nicolas Pillet's excellent website.

Thank you Stan Black !  :D
And thanks to Anik too !
Mistakes are corrected now.

Anik, did you mean that launch pad 23 will never hoist any launch again ?
« Last Edit: 03/15/2010 05:39 PM by Nicolas PILLET »
Nicolas PILLET
Kosmonavtika : The French site on Russian Space

Offline anik

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #423 on: 03/15/2010 07:44 PM »
When were they delivered?

Soyuz-2 - September 25, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - December 3, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - March 9. One Soyuz-FG is for Kanopus-V #1 satellite. I did not see when this rocket has arrived to Baikonur.

Anik, did you mean that launch pad 23 will never hoist any launch again?

Yes, I was told so. Launch pad 81/23 is for Proton-K launches only, and there will be only one Proton-K launch in future. It is very expensive to modernize this launch pad for Proton-M.

Offline aquarius

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #424 on: 04/02/2010 07:33 AM »
Why does it take Soyuz 2 days to reach the ISS or Mir in the past, whereas it took only 1 day to get to Salyut stations?

Thanks.

Offline pm1823

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #425 on: 04/02/2010 09:57 AM »
Why does it take Soyuz 2 days to reach the ISS or Mir in the past, whereas it took only 1 day to get to Salyut stations?

Thanks.

1. Salyuts had some less average orbit height.
2. all Progresses and Soyuz-T13 did the '34 orbits phasing' to Salyuts, same like current SCs.
3. More time for a phasing (34 orbits vs 18 orbits) gives you more available launch windows in a year, so, gives you the much more flexible launch schedule, which is very desirable for the big station and intensive flight program.
4.Less fuel spending on phasing, so, you can spend more for docking(adds probability to mission success) and for deorbit (adds crew safety).
5. Not a such big difference in the crew morale and health state between 18 and 34 orbits.   

« Last Edit: 04/02/2010 09:59 AM by pm1823 »

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #426 on: 04/02/2010 09:15 PM »
Anik, did you mean that launch pad 23 will never hoist any launch again?

Yes, I was told so. Launch pad 81/23 is for Proton-K launches only, and there will be only one Proton-K launch in future. It is very expensive to modernize this launch pad for Proton-M.

Tender for extending the life of the launch systems in 2010
http://www.federalspace.ru/download/2010_03_29_start.doc

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #427 on: 04/03/2010 09:35 AM »
When were they delivered?

Soyuz-2 - September 25, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - December 3, Soyuz-U and Soyuz-FG - March 9. One Soyuz-FG is for Kanopus-V #1 satellite. I did not see when this rocket has arrived to Baikonur.

Was it sent along with the Soyuz for MIM2 Poisk?
Is that what the tender was for?
http://www.federalspace.ru/main.php?id=15&did=347

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #428 on: 04/17/2010 12:24 PM »
Does anyone know the 11S861 DM-2 serial numbers used to launch:-
Kosmos-234514th August 1997
Globus-1 15L28th February 1999
GLONASS13th October 2000
Globus-1 14L6th October 2001
GLONASS1st December 2001



1LGLONASS block 1October 198261LUS-KS Kosmos-2209September 1992
2LGLONASS block 2August 198362LRaduga 43LDecember 1994
3LGLONASS block 4May 198463LGLONASS block 20July 1992
4LGLONASS block 3December 198364L71Kh6 7121 Kosmos-2224December 1992
5LGLONASS block 5September 198465LGоrizоnt 38LNovember 1992
6LTselina-2 Kosmos-1603September 198466LGLONASS block 21February 1993
7LGLONASS block 6May 198567LRaduga 42LMarch 1993
8LTselina-2 Kosmos-1656May 198568L71Kh6 7123 Kosmos-2282July 1994
9LAl’tair 11L Kosmos-1700October 198569LGоrizоnt 39LMay 1993
10LGLONASS block 8September 198670LGLONASS block 22April 1994
11LGLONASS block 7December 198571LGоrizоnt 42LMay 1994
12LUS-KS Kosmos-1940April 198872LGоrizоnt 40LOctober 1993
13LGLONASS block 12May 198873LRaduga 40LFebruary 1994
14LGeizer 15L Kosmos-1888October 198774LGLONASS block 23August 1994
15LGоrizоnt 28LAugust 198875LAl’tair 13L LuchDecember 1994
16LGlоbus-1 11LJune 198976LGLONASS block 25March 1995
17LEkran-M 11L Kosmos-1817January 198777LGLONASS block 26July 1995
18LGLONASS block 9April 198778LGeizer 20L Kosmos-2319August 1995
19LEkran-M 12LDecember 198879LLuch-1October 1995
20LGоrizоnt 29LJanuary 198980LGLONASS block 27December 1995
21LGоrizоnt 25LJanuary 198881LGоrizоnt 43LJanuary 1996
22LRaduga 33LApril 198982LRaduga 44LFebruary 1996
23LRaduga 36LDecember 198983LGlоbus-1 13LFebruary 1994
24LGeizer 17L Kosmos-2085July 199084L
25LGоrizоnt 27LJuly 198985LGоrizоnt 41LNovember 1993
26LGLONASS block 10September 198786LGeizer 19L Kosmos-2291September 1994
27LGоrizоnt 31LSeptember 198987LGlоbus-1 16LAugust 2000
28LUS-KS Kosmos-1894October 198788L
29LAl’tair 12L Kosmos-1897November 198789LEkspress-А3June 2000
30LRaduga 32LDecember 198790LGeizer 22L Kosmos-2371July 2000
31LEkran-M 13LDecember 198791L
32LGLONASS block 11February 198892LGLONASS block 28December 1998
33LGeizer 16L Kosmos-1961August 198893L
34LAl’tair 14L Kosmos-2054December 198994LGals 12LNovember 1995
35LGоrizоnt 32LNovember 199095LGLONASS block 31December 2002
36LRaduga 41LSeptember 199396L71Kh6 7122 Kosmos-2350April 1998
37LGLONASS block 16May 199097LGLONASS block 24November 1994
38L71Kh6 7120 Kosmos-2133February 199198L71Kh6 7126 Kosmos-2397April 2003
39LGLONASS block 15May 198999L71Kh6 7124 Kosmos-2379August 2001
40LRaduga 34LOctober 1988100LGоrizоnt 44LMay 1996
41LRaduga 35LFebruary 1990101L
42LGLONASS block 14January 1989102LEkspress-А1October 1999
43LGLONASS block 13September 1988103LEkspress-АM3June 2005
44LEkran-M 14LAugust 1990104LGLONASS block 33December 2004
45LGоrizоnt 33LNovember 1990105LGlоbus-1 17LMarch 2004
46LGlоbus-1 12LDecember 1990106LGLONASS block 34December 2005
47LGLONASS block 17December 1990107LGlоbus-1 18LFebruary 2009
48LRaduga 37LDecember 1990108LGLONASS block 35December 2006
49LRaduga 38LFebruary 1991109LGLONASS block 37December 2007
50LGоrizоnt 34LJuly 1991110LGLONASS block 36October 2007
51LGeizer 18L Kosmos-2172November 1991111L71Kh6 7127 Kosmos-2440June 2008
52LRaduga 39LDecember 1991112LGLONASS block 38September 2008
53LGLONASS block 18April 1991113L
54LUS-KS Kosmos-2155September 1991114LGLONASS block 39December 2008
55LGоrizоnt 35LOctober 1991115LGLONASS block 41December 2009
56LElektrоOctober 1994116LGLONASS block 40March 2010
57LGоrizоnt 36LApril 1992117L
58LEkran-M 15LOctober 1992
59LGLONASS block 19January 1992
60LGоrizоnt 37LJuly 1992
« Last Edit: 04/17/2010 12:30 PM by Stan Black »

Offline anik

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #429 on: 04/17/2010 01:10 PM »
84 - 28.02.1999, 88 - 14.08.1997, 91 - 13.10.2000, 93 - 06.10.2001, 101 - 01.12.2001, 117 - 2010 (TBD), 118 - 10.08.2010.

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #430 on: 04/17/2010 02:06 PM »
So what about the DM serial numbers for Kupon, Astra-2C and DIRECTV-5?



DM2-2M1LEkspress 11L5L-9LSESAT13LEkspress-AM22
11S861-012LEkspress 12L6L-10LEkspress-A214LEkspress-AM11
3LGals 11L7L-11LEkspress-A415LEkspress-AM1
4LYamal-1008L-12LYamal-20016LEkspress-AM2
DM31LAstra-1F9LAstra-2A17LSirius-FM325L
2LAstra-1G10LPAS-818LLMI-126L
3LPAS-511LNimiq-119LGE-627L
4LTELSTAR-612LASIASAT-3S20LECHOSTAR-828LINTELSAT-903
5LASIASAT-313LGE-1A21L29LSirius-FM1
6LPAS-1014L22LSirius-FM230L
7LECHOSTAR-415LGaruda-123LKAZSAT-131L
8LAstra-1H16L24LAstra-1K
« Last Edit: 04/17/2010 02:07 PM by Stan Black »

Offline anik

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #431 on: 04/18/2010 08:24 AM »
8, 27, 21.

Offline mdo

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #432 on: 04/26/2010 01:29 PM »
What is the dry mass of the Breeze-M Auxiliary Propellant Tank APT and that of the core stage respectively?


Context:
When fitting the recent Proton launches with payloads such as SES-1 and Intelsat-16 as described in the ILS mission overviews with my Breeze-M performance model I get a satisfactory match, however, only after making a few assumptions:

1. APT dry/fuel mass 950/14600 kg
2. Breeze-M dry/fuel mass 2370/5200 kg  (2370 includes APT dry)
3. the Breeze core is not always filled to the top depending on mission
4. satellite adapter is carried in addition 115-150 kg

Neither the Proton Mission Planner's Guide nor other sources on the web helped to confirm/clarify this with a complete and consistent set of numbers in one place. Maybe this is also due to my lack of Russian language skills  :-\ Related points of interest:

5. Are the 4 Verniers fed from the core only or also from the APT?
6. Can the S5.98M motor consume fuel from core and APT in the same burn?

The last two items 5-6 arise because on some missions more than 14.600 kg fuel appear to be consumed prior to APT separation (e.g. AsiaSat-5 launch with 2501 s accumulated burn time prior to APT sep.).

Clarification of any of above points would be much appreciated.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #433 on: 04/28/2010 04:34 AM »
The Breeze-KM upper stage used on Eurockot is very similar to the Breeze used on Proton. The Eurockot User Manual gives a dry mass for Breeze-KM of 1600 kg.

As whether the main engine and vernier share the same prop tanks, I do not know for sure, but the Russian practice is to separate the tanks.

Offline mdo

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #434 on: 04/29/2010 12:49 AM »
Here is an update after fitting some 15 ILS Proton M/Breeze M missions flown in the past 2 years:

1. Breeze-M core dry/fuel mass 1550/5200 kg
2. APT dry/fuel mass 950/14600 kg
3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg

The accumulated burn times before and after Auxiliary Propellant Tank (APT) separation vary significantly from launch to launch: Ranges found in the ILS provided mission overviews are 1959-2521 s before and 617-741 s after jettison. There was even a 3-burn mission with just 370 s of Breeze core usage. I suspect that fuel loading of the APT and core stage may vary by 3+ mT.

Furthermore, the APT capacity can support burns <2400 s. This is regularly exceeded prior to APT separation. That raises the question whether the S5.98/14D30 engine performance of 19.62 kN and an Isp of 326 s is accurate or whether some other dynamic element comes into play.

Also, the four 11D458 Vernier thrusters provide some 4x400 N. Whether they operate continuously and what fuel budget they have got is causing further uncertainty.

Obviously the final burn is very sensitive to the dry mass of the Breeze-M core. At 1600 kg as per Eurockot manual for the Breeze-KM version (thanks to Danderman for the reference) my model underperforms. 1550 kg barely works with zero margin. Maybe the satellite adapter (110-155 kg) is integrated in the figure of 1600 kg after all.

To conclude, the assumptions given in the previous post still hold and the uncertainties remain. The level of reverse engineering involved is way too much to be confident in these numbers.

Offline Danderman

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #435 on: 04/29/2010 02:20 PM »

3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg


A good rule of thumb for a payload adapter is 3% - 5% of payload mass. In this case, the payload is quite heavy, as its filled with prop - the GEO mass of the satellite may be only 2 tons and change, but the GTO mass lifted by Proton is much higher, and the payload adapter must support the GTO mass, not the GEO mass.

Offline mdo

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #436 on: 04/29/2010 02:47 PM »

3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg


A good rule of thumb for a payload adapter is 3% - 5% of payload mass. In this case, the payload is quite heavy, as its filled with prop - the GEO mass of the satellite may be only 2 tons and change, but the GTO mass lifted by Proton is much higher, and the payload adapter must support the GTO mass, not the GEO mass.

The adapter mass is taken from the Proton Mission Planner's Guide. Table  4.1.4-1 lists the various payload adapter versions in the range 110-155 kg. Since the mission overviews do not specify which version is used there results an uncertainty of 155-110=45 kg. This is why it is mentioned.

The ILS mission overviews state the separated mass, i.e., that clearly sounds like GTO mass.


Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #437 on: 05/04/2010 03:52 PM »
Can anyone help me complete the following list of 14A05 Rokot launchers?

 
15S300
Serial
Briz-KM
14S45
Serial
 
 
Payload
 72501813IP/003
813IP/007
 72505GRACE-1
GRACE-2
492588203472502Iridium SV97
Iridium SV98
5111992008П72503MOST
MIMOSA
492192112172506SERVIS-1
492588203072507Monitor-E
630722311572508CRYOSAT
492588203272504KOMPSAT-2
511392211472509Kosmos 2437 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2438 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2439 17F13 Strela-3
Jubilejnyj
 72511GOCE
492179157372510Kosmos 2451 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2452 14F132 Rodnik
Kosmos 2453 17F13 Strela-3
492588203372513SMOS
Proba-2
5111992007П72516SERVIS-2
630979356772514Gonets-M 12L
Kosmos 2467 17F13 Strela-3
Kosmos 2468 14F132 Rodnik
630979356872517GEO-IK-2 11L
492639183572515Gonets-M 13L
Gonets-M 14L
14F132 Rodnik
Jubilejnyj 2
« Last Edit: 02/02/2011 07:39 PM by Stan Black »

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #438 on: 06/21/2010 08:31 AM »
Here is an update after fitting some 15 ILS Proton M/Breeze M missions flown in the past 2 years:

1. Breeze-M core dry/fuel mass 1550/5200 kg
2. APT dry/fuel mass 950/14600 kg
3. satellite adapter 110-155 kg

The accumulated burn times before and after Auxiliary Propellant Tank (APT) separation vary significantly from launch to launch: Ranges found in the ILS provided mission overviews are 1959-2521 s before and 617-741 s after jettison. There was even a 3-burn mission with just 370 s of Breeze core usage. I suspect that fuel loading of the APT and core stage may vary by 3+ mT.

Furthermore, the APT capacity can support burns <2400 s. This is regularly exceeded prior to APT separation. That raises the question whether the S5.98/14D30 engine performance of 19.62 kN and an Isp of 326 s is accurate or whether some other dynamic element comes into play.

Also, the four 11D458 Vernier thrusters provide some 4x400 N. Whether they operate continuously and what fuel budget they have got is causing further uncertainty.

Obviously the final burn is very sensitive to the dry mass of the Breeze-M core. At 1600 kg as per Eurockot manual for the Breeze-KM version (thanks to Danderman for the reference) my model underperforms. 1550 kg barely works with zero margin. Maybe the satellite adapter (110-155 kg) is integrated in the figure of 1600 kg after all.

To conclude, the assumptions given in the previous post still hold and the uncertainties remain. The level of reverse engineering involved is way too much to be confident in these numbers.

Briz maximum burn time 1,000 seconds
http://www.eurockot.com/pb-pic/20041083.pdf
So if there is upto 14,600 kg in the extenal APT / ДТБ and the Briz core has up to 5,200 kg; then external tank should be able to provide 2,808 seconds of burn time?

СОЗ vernier timings timings can be found in http://coopi.khrunichev.ru under ‘newsposting’.

Offline mdo

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Re: Soviet/Russian space programs Q&A
« Reply #439 on: 06/21/2010 08:47 PM »
СОЗ vernier timings timings can be found in http://coopi.khrunichev.ru under ‘newsposting’.

That is a fabulous source. It surely is more detailed than I could have hoped for. It will likely help to narrow things down in a quiet hour. Thanks Stan Black.

Briz maximum burn time 1,000 seconds
http://www.eurockot.com/pb-pic/20041083.pdf
So if there is upto 14,600 kg in the extenal APT / ДТБ and the Briz core has up to 5,200 kg; then external tank should be able to provide 2,808 seconds of burn time?

- as per table 2-8 the propellant mass is 3300 + 1665 = 4995 kg
- adding the fuel required by the Verniers to produce the advertized total impulse of 4 x 141120 Ns one gets to about 5200 kg; that would explain where the figure 5200 comes from
- the given isp 325.5s and total impulse 2 x 10^7 Ns pin down the max. burn time to 797 s, where burn time = total impulse / (isp * g)
 
It would take 6.263 kg of propellants to produce a total impulse of 20 MNs. Table 2-5 in the Eurockot manual gives a total impulse of 2 x 107 Ns which is most likely a misprint in the exponent. Apart from that there is no free parameter to explain the discrepancy of 6263-4995=1268kg. This makes me believe that the max. burn time of 1000 s is an engine specification, rather than an actually achievable performance parameter in the given configuration.

One can extrapolate the increase in burn time based on an APT capacity of 14600 kg as (14600/4995) * 797 = 2330 s. Then the total burn time of the Breeze-M is 797 + 2330 = 3127 s, give or take a few seconds. Remember the assumption that the Breeze-KM numbers in the Eurockot manual dated Nov. 2004 are applicable to the Breeze-M as used with the Proton.

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