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SpaceX F9 : Haven-1 : NET August 2025 by FutureSpaceTourist on 10 May, 2023 10:10
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Discussion thread for Haven-1 mission
Other threads:
Vast Space thread
https://www.vastspace.com/updates/vast-announces-the-haven-1-and-vast-1-human-spaceflight-mission-launched-by-spacex-on-a-dragon-spacecraftQuoteVAST Announces the Haven-1 and VAST-1 Missions.
MAY 10, 2023
LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA
SCHEDULED TO BE THE WORLD’S FIRST COMMERCIAL SPACE STATION, HAVEN-1 AND SUBSEQUENT HUMAN SPACEFLIGHT MISSIONS WILL ACCELERATE ACCESS TO SPACE EXPLORATION.
LONG BEACH, Calif. — May 10, 2023 — Vast, a pioneer in space habitation technologies, announced today their plans to launch the world’s first commercial space station, called Haven-1. Scheduled to launch on a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket to low-Earth orbit no earlier than August 2025, Haven-1 will initially act as an independent crewed space station prior to being connected as a module to a larger Vast space station currently in development. The mission will be quickly followed by Vast-1, the first human spaceflight mission to Haven-1 on a SpaceX Dragon spacecraft. The vehicle and its four-person crew will dock with Haven-1 for up to 30 days while orbiting Earth. Vast also secured an option with SpaceX for an additional human spaceflight mission to Haven-1.
This represents the first time in history that a commercial space station company has both a contracted launch for its space station and a visiting human spaceflight mission.
“Vast is thrilled to embark on this journey of launching the world's first commercial space station, Haven-1, and its first crew, Vast-1,” said Jed McCaleb, CEO of Vast. “We are grateful to SpaceX for this exciting partnership that represents the first steps in Vast’s long-term vision of launching much larger, artificial gravity space stations in Earth orbit and beyond.”
“A commercial rocket launching a commercial spacecraft with commercial astronauts to a commercial space station is the future of low-Earth orbit, and with Vast we’re taking another step toward making that future a reality,” said Tom Ochinero, Senior Vice President of Commercial Business at SpaceX. “The SpaceX team couldn’t be more excited to launch Vast’s Haven-1 and support their follow-on human spaceflight missions to the orbiting commercial space station.”
Vast’s long-term goal is to develop a 100-meter-long multi-module spinning artificial gravity space station launched by SpaceX’s Starship transportation system. In support of this, Vast will explore conducting the world’s first spinning artificial gravity experiment on a commercial space station with Haven-1.
Vast is selling up to four crewed seats on the inaugural mission to Haven-1. Expected customers include domestic and international space agencies and private individuals involved in science and philanthropic projects. Visit vastspace.com/reserve for more details.
SpaceX will also provide crew training on Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft, emergency preparedness, spacesuit and spacecraft ingress and egress exercises, as well as partial and full mission simulations including docking and undocking with Haven-1 for return to Earth.
HAVEN-1 FEATURES:
Compatible docking with the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft
Extend the on-orbit duration of commercial Dragon spacecraft human spaceflight missions for up to 30 days for four astronauts
Science, research, and in-space manufacturing opportunities - 1000 W of power, 24/7 communications, and up to 150 kg of pre-loaded cargo mass in Haven-1. Opportunities for lunar artificial gravity by spinning.
Fully independent space station providing life support functions and consumables for the full mission’s duration.
Privacy and control of your crew schedule
Large window dome for viewing and photography
Always-on internet via onboard Wi-Fi
Room to stretch and rest
VAST-1 - OUR FIRST EXPEDITION TO HAVEN-1
Fly to Haven-1 in a SpaceX Dragon spacecraft launched by the Falcon 9 rocket
For space agencies and private individuals
Fly four crew members to Haven-1 for up to 30 days
Be the first crew to visit the world’s first commercial space station
Available per seat or as a full, four-person crew mission
Advanced science, research, and in-space manufacturing opportunities
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#1 by FutureSpaceTourist on 10 May, 2023 10:13
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#2 by hektor on 10 May, 2023 11:09
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Sadly, no information on inclination and altitude.
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#3 by daedalus1 on 10 May, 2023 11:12
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Probably be 28° to maximise payload from Florida
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#4 by hektor on 10 May, 2023 11:12
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That would make sense but limits the share of Earth surface which is visible for the crew.
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#5 by daedalus1 on 10 May, 2023 11:30
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That would make sense but limits the share of Earth surface which is visible for the crew.
That's more than 50% -
#6 by FutureSpaceTourist on 10 May, 2023 14:26
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https://twitter.com/spacex/status/1656239445161709569Quote
We’re excited to work with @Vast to create greater access to space and more opportunities for exploration on the road to making humanity multiplanetary
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#7 by scr00chy on 10 May, 2023 15:13
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Sadly, no information on inclination and altitude.
Official website says 500 km circular.
https://www.vastspace.com/
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#8 by spacenuance on 10 May, 2023 16:37
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Sadly, no information on inclination and altitude.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/05/vast-says-it-will-launch-its-first-space-station-in-2025-on-a-falcon-9/?utm_brand=arstechnica&utm_source=twitter&utm_social-type=owned&utm_medium=socialQuoteIn terms of crew safety, Vast intends to launch the space station into a 500-km orbit at the same inclination as the International Space Station.
Edit: Also should include this, seems that Dragon will be helping out with the life support onboard stationQuoteThe partnership with SpaceX is the key to making this mission happen. Not only will the 3.8-meter-wide Haven-1 module launch inside a Falcon 9 rocket, but part of its life-support systems will also be provided by the Crew Dragon spacecraft when the vehicle is docked.
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#9 by abaddon on 10 May, 2023 16:56
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Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.
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#10 by wannamoonbase on 10 May, 2023 17:05
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Sadly, no information on inclination and altitude.
Official website says 500 km circular.
https://www.vastspace.com/
This weight estimate is not much more than the Crew Dragon (12,500 kg on Wikipedia) without the limitations of a crew launch trajectory could these even be a RTLS?
A space station with a RTLS would really be something. -
#11 by Tomness on 10 May, 2023 17:20
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This suspiciously looks like Dragon XL, but could be different.
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#12 by DanClemmensen on 10 May, 2023 17:29
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This suspiciously looks like Dragon XL, but could be different.
Probably quite different. Among other things, Dragon XL needs to have an "active mode" IDSS port, while Haven-1 needs to have a "passive mode" IDSS port. While an "active/passive" port is possible, the active-mode HW is somewhat complex and heavy. And that's just the end of the RPOD. Dragon XL must be the active spacecraft for the entire RPOD, with an appropriate set of thrusters and software. -
#13 by wannamoonbase on 10 May, 2023 17:49
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This suspiciously looks like Dragon XL, but could be different.
I don't know about that, but it does look like SpaceX was helping or at very least inspiring aspects of the design. -
#14 by Comga on 10 May, 2023 19:21
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I would describe this as cool and interesting, but aspirational, immature, and unlikely.
The video clip show Haven-1 firing attitude control thrusters.
However, it is not clear how these would be refueled.
On the ISS this function is primarily served by Progress vehicles, which bring fuel, and with their constant presence serve to both reboost the ISS and to desaturate the momentum storing devices, which there are Control Moment Gyros (CMGs).
With a single docking port Vast needs some alternative way to bring fuel, perhaps transferring something from the trunk of the Dragon to the exterior of Haven-1.
A 500 km orbit will reduce the need for reboosting, but will increase the frequency of Collision Avoidance Maneuvers (CAMs).
While Dragon can serve this purpose while attached, there has to be some system for doing this in the intervals when it is not, but there is no such system visible. This will increase the need to refuel the thrusters.
Not only will there be more CAMs than at the ~415 km altitude of the ISS, but there will be a lot more impacts from small, untrackable debris.
They can't leave that "Vistadome" exposed on the end.
Haven-1 may need some Whipple shields over much of the exterior, too.
The solar panels appear to be fixed with respect to the body of Haven.
They might have one degree of freedom, rotation about the hinge, but even Blue Reef went away from that, finally adding a second degree of freedom.
Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
And rotating for simulating "lunar gravity"?
The video suggests this rotation would be axial.
Let's suppose that's for berths just inside the pressure vessle, which would be at most 2 meters from the axis.
w=sqrt(1.625 m/s²/2m)=0.9/sec
so it would have to rotate in 2*pi/0.9=7.0 sec or almost 9 RPM.
Doesn't that seem pretty fast?
And wouldn't it be hard to maintain rotation about the axis with the smallest moment of inertial?
Meanwhile the power generation would be reduced by a factor of 2*Pi and any thermal radiators might get sunlight on them.Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.
I disagree. The 51.6 degrees inclination of the ISS is specifically to overfly the launch site for Soyuz and Progress, and comes at significant expense in terms of launch capacity, weather restrictions for aborts, days of contunuous solar illumination which would get worse at 500 km, and others. Given all the stuff Vast has to design, designing new abort scenarios is a minor addition.
I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
edit: I was unaware, or forgot that there is an existing thread on the Vast station. -
#15 by FutureSpaceTourist on 10 May, 2023 19:28
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https://www.spacex.com/updates/index.htmlQuote
MAY 10, 2023
SPACEX TO LAUNCH VAST’S COMMERCIAL SPACE STATION AND FIRST HUMAN SPACEFLIGHT MISSION
Vast announced today that SpaceX will launch what is expected to be the world’s first commercial space station, known as Vast Haven-1, quickly followed by two human spaceflight missions to said space station. Scheduled to launch on a Falcon 9 rocket to low-Earth orbit no earlier than August 2025. Haven-1 will be a fully-functional independent space station and eventually be connected as a module to a larger Vast space station currently in development.
Upon launch of Haven-1, Falcon 9 will launch Vast’s first human spaceflight mission to the commercial space station, Vast-1. Dragon and its four-person crew will dock with Haven-1 for up to 30 days while orbiting Earth. Vast also secured an option for an additional human spaceflight mission to the station aboard a Dragon spacecraft.
The Vast-1 crew selection process is underway and the crew will be announced at a future date. Once finalized, SpaceX will provide crew training on Falcon 9 and the Dragon spacecraft, emergency preparedness, spacesuit and spacecraft ingress and egress exercises, as well as partial and full mission simulations including docking and undocking for return to Earth.
Vast’s long-term goal is to develop a 100-meter-long multi-module spinning artificial gravity space station launched by SpaceX’s Starship transportation system. In support of this, Vast will explore conducting the world’s first spinning artificial gravity experiment on a commercial space station with Haven-1.
This new partnership between Vast and SpaceX will continue to create and accelerate greater accessibility to space and more opportunities for exploration on the road to making humanity multiplanetary. -
#16 by DanClemmensen on 10 May, 2023 19:31
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I assumed that they intend to put it into the same plane as ISS to allow the crew of each station to use the other station as an emergency refuge with a minimal delta-V maneuver.Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.
I disagree. The 51.6 degrees inclination of the ISS is specifically to overfly the launch site for Soyuz and Progress, and comes at significant expense in terms of launch capacity, weather restrictions for aborts, days of contunuous solar illumination which would get worse at 500 km, and others. Given all the stuff Vast has to design, designing new abort scenarios is a minor addition.
I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest. -
#17 by whitelancer64 on 10 May, 2023 19:53
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I would describe this as cool and interesting, but aspirational, immature, and unlikely.
The video clip show Haven-1 firing attitude control thrusters.
However, it is not clear how these would be refueled.
On the ISS this function is primarily served by Progress vehicles, which bring fuel, and with their constant presence serve to both reboost the ISS and to desaturate the momentum storing devices, which there are Control Moment Gyros (CMGs).
With a single docking port Vast needs some alternative way to bring fuel, perhaps transferring something from the trunk of the Dragon to the exterior of Haven-1.
A 500 km orbit will reduce the need for reboosting, but will increase the frequency of Collision Avoidance Maneuvers (CAMs).
While Dragon can serve this purpose while attached, there has to be some system for doing this in the intervals when it is not, but there is no such system visible. This will increase the need to refuel the thrusters.
Not only will there be more CAMs than at the ~415 km altitude of the ISS, but there will be a lot more impacts from small, untrackable debris.
They can't leave that "Vistadome" exposed on the end.
Haven-1 may need some Whipple shields over much of the exterior, too.
The solar panels appear to be fixed with respect to the body of Haven.
They might have one degree of freedom, rotation about the hinge, but even Blue Reef went away from that, finally adding a second degree of freedom.
Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
And rotating for simulating "lunar gravity"?
The video suggests this rotation would be axial.
Let's suppose that's for berths just inside the pressure vessle, which would be at most 2 meters from the axis.
w=sqrt(1.625 m/s²/2m)=0.9/sec
so it would have to rotate in 2*pi/0.9=7.0 sec or almost 9 RPM.
Doesn't that seem pretty fast?
And wouldn't it be hard to maintain rotation about the axis with the smallest moment of inertial?
Meanwhile the power generation would be reduced by a factor of 2*Pi and any thermal radiators might get sunlight on them.Makes sense to have it at ISS inclination, means all of the Dragon flight paths abort/recovery zones etc are the same as for an ISS launch and are already well-established.
I disagree. The 51.6 degrees inclination of the ISS is specifically to overfly the launch site for Soyuz and Progress, and comes at significant expense in terms of launch capacity, weather restrictions for aborts, days of contunuous solar illumination which would get worse at 500 km, and others. Given all the stuff Vast has to design, designing new abort scenarios is a minor addition.
I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.
However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station. -
#18 by FutureSpaceTourist on 10 May, 2023 20:50
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twitter.com/jimmydramauk/status/1656335903126683648Quote
File this under: Never gonna happen
https://twitter.com/hanskoenigsmann/status/1656337442541060096QuoteThat’s what people said to SpaceX too
twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1656395197847334912QuoteAgreed. I don't think what they're trying to do is particularly crazy. The timeline is ambitious, but it looks like they may be trying to leverage a lot of subsystems from SpaceX's Dragon for this first module.
https://twitter.com/rocketrepreneur/status/1656395439321792513QuoteGiven their strong funding situation, worst case they miss their NET Aug 2025 date, but I'd be surprised if the Vast team couldn't pull this off.
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#19 by abaddon on 10 May, 2023 21:09
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One of the reasons to really like this concept is it's lack of ambition. That's a good thing! All of the mega-amazing designs for complex orbital facilities serviced by spaceplanes look great in renders, but are unlikely to ever be funded and/or technically feasible with current level technology. This one looks very doable, which means still challenging and the possibility of failure is high (space is hard), but achievable. Only requires two regular-stick F9 launches to make use of it at least one time is nice too, that's about as cheap from a launch perspective as you can get.
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#20 by Skyrocket on 11 May, 2023 00:06
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Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
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#21 by russianhalo117 on 11 May, 2023 00:15
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SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays.. It could also be artistic license.Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same. -
#22 by Skyrocket on 11 May, 2023 00:19
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Indeed, solid information is somewhat sparse.
SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays.. It could also be artistic license.Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX was the prime contractor. -
#23 by spacenuance on 11 May, 2023 01:09
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SpaceX might be a contractor as spacecraft propulsion also looks SpaceX sized along with the Dragon 1 type solar arrays.. It could also be artistic license.Speaking of Blue Reef's solar panels, no thermal radiator is shown.
Maybe they can get away with a flush panel like Crew Dragon, but that would go against shielding the exterior and be quite limited.
The body mounted radiators on Dragon and Haven look much the same.
I would have assumed they would use propulsion from Launcher's Orbiter tug given they acquired the company 3 months ago. -
#24 by Mariusuiram on 11 May, 2023 14:59
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I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.
However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.
Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.
Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible. -
#25 by wannamoonbase on 11 May, 2023 15:14
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I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.
However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.
Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.
Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.
3-30 day visits makes me think the business case is to sell up to twelve 30 day tourist trips to LEO.
What's the cost per person that justifies the use of a Crew Dragon and a Space Station? -
#26 by whitelancer64 on 11 May, 2023 15:57
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I truly wish Vast luck in their endeavors, but am not adding these flights to the my personal version of the manifest.
I suspect Haven will be much like Skylab, fully fueled for its operational lifetime at launch. Yeah, that dome is definitely going to have to have a MMOD cover.
However, keep in mind, Haven is not the end game for Vast - they are planning a much, much larger space station. This is likely to end up being like Tiangong 1/2, a precursor module visited only a few times before they launch the big multimodule space station.
Either the Ars or SpaceNews write up of this confirms they are trying to load it entirely on the ground, make use of Dragon for as much as possible, and they hope Haven-1 will be able to serve 3 30-day missions. The fact that they are only hoping to get 3 missions to the station seems to align with all the other details about not creating a new ISS, but really just a minimal viable product.
Given they are self funded and from what I understand he has already made his scam money (meaning his billions of net worth are not tied up in a current scam company), it seem surprisingly possible.
3-30 day visits makes me think the business case is to sell up to twelve 30 day tourist trips to LEO.
What's the cost per person that justifies the use of a Crew Dragon and a Space Station?
If $20 million per seat, 20x12 = $240 million. Less than this seems very implausible.
If $25 million per seat, 25x12 = $300 million.
If $30 million per seat, 30x12 = $360 million.
If $35 million per seat, 35x12 = $420 million. +1 Bonus for funny number association.
If $40 million per seat, 40x12 = $480 million.
If $45 million per seat, 45x12 = $540 million.
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.
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#27 by cpushack on 11 May, 2023 19:11
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Quote
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.
Who knows on the price, but its certainly not inconceivable for some Govt agency to take advantage of a private space station for some experiment or other purpose. Think X-37 mission but something that needs babysat or managed hands on. -
#28 by Robotbeat on 11 May, 2023 19:35
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I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
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#29 by neoforce on 11 May, 2023 20:02
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If $20 million per seat, 20x12 = $240 million. Less than this seems very implausible.
If $25 million per seat, 25x12 = $300 million.
If $30 million per seat, 30x12 = $360 million.
If $35 million per seat, 35x12 = $420 million. +1 Bonus for funny number association.
If $40 million per seat, 40x12 = $480 million.
If $45 million per seat, 45x12 = $540 million.
If $50 million per seat, 50x12 = $600 million. Here we are getting into government spending territory.I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
The beauty of their plan is it assumes Starship will succeed so they don't need to be profitable with Haven-1. This is an Minimally Viable Product, that builds expertise for their company and is (most likely) not expected to make money. -
#30 by wannamoonbase on 11 May, 2023 20:09
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I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor.
For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.
It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.
The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.
I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum. -
#31 by whitelancer64 on 11 May, 2023 20:24
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I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor.
For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.
It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.
The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.
I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.
$60 million / 4 = $15 million
Yes, the per seat would need to be more than that to cover the costs of building, outfitting, and operating the Haven station.
$100 million per person would either be a huge amount of profit, or would assume that the Haven station will cost well in excess of $500 million in total. -
#32 by DeimosDream on 11 May, 2023 21:05
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The CrewDragon capsule is just as expensive as the Falcon it rides on. These missions probably aren't going to cost the same $200M+ as SpaceX charges NASA (less paperwork, less ground support required for 30-days vs 180-days, etc) but $500M is probably a good guess for Haven + 3x Crew Dragon missions.
I'll speculate they'll charge Axiom like prices. Visitors get a smaller less equipped station but are allowed a longer stay than NASA permits ISS visitors.One of the reasons to really like this concept is it's lack of ambition. That's a good thing! All of the mega-amazing designs for complex orbital facilities serviced by spaceplanes look great in renders, but are unlikely to ever be funded and/or technically feasible with current level technology. This one looks very doable, which means still challenging and the possibility of failure is high (space is hard), but achievable. Only requires two regular-stick F9 launches to make use of it at least one time is nice too, that's about as cheap from a launch perspective as you can get.
Agreed! I was originally dismissive of Vast for having unrealistic unsustainable delusions of grandeur, but this humble start is promising. -
#33 by wannamoonbase on 11 May, 2023 21:46
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I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
I don't know that launch costs would affect the per seat cost per visitor.
For easy math say the F9 launch is $60M, that's $5M per person.
It will be years from now before Starships low launch costs really appear, but lets say it's $30M in 2-3 years, that's $2.5M per person.
The biggest cost per person maybe Crew Dragon, then Haven and Haven launch costs far down the list.
I think $100M per person to visit is a minimum.
$60 million / 4 = $15 million
Yes, the per seat would need to be more than that to cover the costs of building, outfitting, and operating the Haven station.
$100 million per person would either be a huge amount of profit, or would assume that the Haven station will cost well in excess of $500 million in total.
$60M may get you an F9 launch, but not a F9 + Crew Dragon.
My original reference to $60M was just for the Haven launch.
There major costs appear to be:
1 - Space Station
3 - Crew Dragon flights complete with training.
4 - F9 flights
Even at SpaceX prices that is a lot of money. -
#34 by TomH on 11 May, 2023 23:11
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I expect Haven will be expensive to start with. Need Starship to make this stuff affordable.
The Heavenly Honeymoon Hotel. The first renters may well be film producers of a certain genre, anxious to film certain scenes in weightlessness while the "actors" float around in micro-G. That industry has enough cash and would get considerable ROI via internet.
Then there will be many rich couples with a great desire to follow. -
#35 by realnouns on 12 May, 2023 18:37
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I think likely $160-200M per launch ($40-50M per seat). This assumes that they are also using SpaceX's SpaceXtronaut Space Training Program and all the amenities (space food, dragon toilet, repurposed cupola... for 30 days) 3 launches - say $600M
The station has got to cost at least that again - say $600M
So all in, that's $100M/person ($1,200M/12). For 30 days, that's $3.3M/person/day. Not too bad
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#36 by StraumliBlight on 30 Apr, 2024 01:25
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April 8th, response to CRSRA regarding satellite disposal, it will have a 3 year operational life before controlled deorbit.
https://www.space.commerce.gov/wp-content/uploads/Vast-Response-to-RFI-on-Satellite-Disposal-and-Debris-Mitigation.pdf
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#37 by StraumliBlight on 23 May, 2024 13:14
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Quote
Unveiling our Haven-1 primary structure pathfinder which proved we could build in house all the critical geometries, transitions, and interfaces of Haven-1. Next up - building the primary structure qualification article which will undergo pressure and load tests. Designed, manufactured, and tested in-house in the 🇺🇸
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#38 by gongora on 01 Aug, 2024 13:27
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#39 by StraumliBlight on 05 Aug, 2024 00:01
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Vast’s Vibe Test Lab is crucial for testing Haven Demo and Haven-1 components for dynamic loads experienced during launch to low Earth orbit. With our in-house capabilities, we benefit from rapid response to design changes, accelerated timelines by avoiding outsourcing delays, and seamless feedback to engineering and design teams. Our vertically-integrated engineering approach is hardware rich and enhances product quality with a tight design/test feedback loop that will support our development and reliability as we head into long-term production of our commercial space habitats.