Author Topic: Artemis II : Discussion Thread  (Read 370589 times)

Offline tigerdude9

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #700 on: 02/03/2026 05:40 pm »
This was already bought up in the update only thread, but I'll bring it up here for consistency. NASA has postponed the launch to March due to the hydrogen leak.
« Last Edit: 02/03/2026 05:50 pm by tigerdude9 »
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Offline Targeteer

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #701 on: 02/03/2026 06:04 pm »
I really would have liked to see NASA include graphics/images of the hardware/locations where the leaks occurring in the press conference...
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Offline Jim

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #702 on: 02/03/2026 06:08 pm »
I do wonder if it would be possible to invest in a more flight-accurate test rig, especially given current SLS cadence makes it hard to get on-pad experience. Granted, the counterpoint may be that the scrubs, while irritating, aren't actually that consequential to the manifest.


That is the LETF was supposed to do.  It tested the actual TSMs and umbilical arms that are on the current tower.  The only issue would be how accurate were the flight side interfaces.

Offline catdlr

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #703 on: 02/03/2026 07:48 pm »
Quote
Reid Wiseman

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Immense pride seeing the rocket reach 100% fuel load last night, especially knowing how challenging the scenario was for our launch team doing the dangerous and unforgiving work. The crew just shared a peaceful breakfast with our families and we jump back into training tomorrow to start our preps for a March launch to the Moon.

https://twitter.com/astro_reid/status/2018734374452175166
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #704 on: 02/03/2026 08:54 pm »
Phillip Sloss was reporting with NSF webstaff during yesterday's WDR.  Here are his thoughts and Q/A video.


Getting Ready for Artemis II: Initial takeaways after post-WDR news conference

Quote
Streamed live 4 Feb 3, 2026
I'll run through what was covered in the news conference this afternoon and take questions, following last night's Wet Dress Rehearsal. NASA is now targeting no earlier than Launch Period 18 in March.

Imagery is courtesy of NASA, except where noted.

Clip of Phillip's Question at the Press Conference




Phillips Post WDR comments:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=EzdoU5FV1sA



« Last Edit: 02/04/2026 02:32 am by catdlr »
A golden rule from Chris B:  "focus on what is being said, not disparage people who say it."

Offline sdsds

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #705 on: 02/04/2026 03:12 am »

Quote
Following the conclusion of the Artemis II wet dress rehearsal, tune in as agency leaders provide updates on the test and our Artemis II mission around the Moon.

Participants will include:
 • Amit Kshatriya, NASA Associate Administrator
 • Lori Glaze, acting associate administrator for NASA's Exploration Systems Development Mission Directorate
 • Shawn Quinn, program manager, Exploration Ground Systems
 • John Honeycutt, chair, Artemis II Mission Management Team

Engineers pushed through several challenges during the two-day test and met many of the planned objectives. To allow teams to review data and conduct a second wet dress rehearsal, NASA now will target March as the earliest possible launch opportunity for the flight test.

Huge thanks to psloss for directly asking Blackwell-Thompson whether the final leak was in the fill-drain QD or the engine-bleed QD! Of course her answer was that the investigation hadn't yet started. She did mention it was when the tank was pressurized. I think that means there would have been two closed valves (ground- and flight-side) totally isolating the fill-drain QD.

Does the timeline match up, i.e. do they begin engine chill-down as soon as the tanks are at pressure?

(Note: Shawn Quinn was not present, Blackwell-Thompson was in that seat instead.)
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Offline jadebenn

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #706 on: 02/04/2026 03:16 am »
That is the LETF was supposed to do.  It tested the actual TSMs and umbilical arms that are on the current tower.  The only issue would be how accurate were the flight side interfaces.
A friend speculated that maybe it's the rollout process itself? Maybe they need to just put the TSMU on a shaker at the LETF and see how it fares after.

I'm only half joking.

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #707 on: 02/04/2026 03:38 am »
That is the LETF was supposed to do.  It tested the actual TSMs and umbilical arms that are on the current tower.  The only issue would be how accurate were the flight side interfaces.
A friend speculated that maybe it's the rollout process itself? Maybe they need to just put the TSMU on a shaker at the LETF and see how it fares after.

I'm only half joking.

Yeah, vibration during the roll is one likely culprit. They also impose unusual bending moments on the connections during the roll.

Why not just bite the bullet? Roll to the pad with the TSMU disconnected, then erect the scaffolding, and make the connection there?
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Offline woods170

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #708 on: 02/04/2026 12:52 pm »
That is the LETF was supposed to do.  It tested the actual TSMs and umbilical arms that are on the current tower.  The only issue would be how accurate were the flight side interfaces.
A friend speculated that maybe it's the rollout process itself? Maybe they need to just put the TSMU on a shaker at the LETF and see how it fares after.

I'm only half joking.

Yeah, vibration during the roll is one likely culprit. They also impose unusual bending moments on the connections during the roll.

Why not just bite the bullet? Roll to the pad with the TSMU disconnected, then erect the scaffolding, and make the connection there?

Because a lot of involved folks will point out that rolling out from the VAB to the launch pad, with all the QD connections already hooked up to the LV, is how it's been done since the Apollo days.

In that regard NASA in incredibly averse to change.

Remember the trouble NASA made when SpaceX wanted to switch from "fueling the LV before the crew enters the vehicle" to "fueling the LV after the crew has entered the vehicle"?
Courtesy of some of my sources I was able to listen in on some of the discussions (after the fact - these discussions were recorded and some of those recordings "magically" landed on my SSD), and I can tell you: particularly the initial discussions were "lively". Lots of "not invented here" syndrome and even more of "that's not how it's done!" syndrome.
« Last Edit: 02/04/2026 12:54 pm by woods170 »

Offline Star One

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #709 on: 02/04/2026 04:55 pm »
Scott Manley - Artemis II Explained - With Kerbal Space Program:


Offline catdlr

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #710 on: 02/04/2026 06:20 pm »
Quote
OSINTdefender
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A member of NASA’s Emergency Response Team (ERT) stands guard at night in front of the Artemis II Space Launch System (SLS) on the launch pad at Kennedy Space Center in Merritt Island, Florida.

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/2018890166295810300
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Offline catdlr

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #711 on: 02/04/2026 08:07 pm »
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Ok, did some digging, as I was fed up with blurry pics.

Here it is, in full glory, the LH2 umbilical carrier plate, on the ground (TSMU side) and vehicle (SLS side)

https://twitter.com/DutchSpace/status/2019154963218268234


Update: I added the NASA Engineering video that these came from


« Last Edit: 02/04/2026 08:34 pm by catdlr »
A golden rule from Chris B:  "focus on what is being said, not disparage people who say it."

Offline catdlr

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #712 on: 02/04/2026 08:21 pm »
Quote
DutchSpace
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Ok, did some digging, as I was fed up with blurry pics.

Here it is, in full glory, the LH2 umbilical carrier plate, on the ground (TSMU side) and vehicle (SLS side)

https://x.com/DutchSpace/status/2019154963218268234

For further interest, NASA recorded the following test of all the carrier plates disconnects for Artemis I.  The connection in question appears at 00:26 to 00:36 in the YouTube video, and both sides are shown (LOX and LH2).

NASA Artemis I Umbilical Release and Retract Test

Quote
Sep 29, 2021
Engineers at KSC successfully completed the Umbilical Release and Retract Test on Sept. 19 inside the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) in preparation for the Artemis I mission. During the test, several umbilical arms extended to connect the Space Launch System (SLS) rocket and the mobile launcher. They swung away from the rocket, just as they will on launch day. The umbilicals will provide power, communications, coolant, and fuel to the rocket and the Orion spacecraft while at the launch pad until they disconnect and retract at ignition and liftoff.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=oeuU_ffBlGI

« Last Edit: 02/04/2026 08:22 pm by catdlr »
A golden rule from Chris B:  "focus on what is being said, not disparage people who say it."

Offline sdsds

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #713 on: 02/04/2026 08:29 pm »
[...]
Why not just bite the bullet? Roll to the pad with the TSMU disconnected, then erect the scaffolding, and make the connection there?

Because a lot of involved folks will point out that rolling out from the VAB to the launch pad, with all the QD connections already hooked up to the LV, is how it's been done since the Apollo days.

In that regard NASA in incredibly averse to change.
[...] Lots of "not invented here" syndrome and even more of "that's not how it's done!" syndrome.

Sigh. I guess you're pointing to a root cause in NASA culture. (Which to some degree is where all root causes are located.) For Artemis II maybe he arrived too late, but weren't fresh new leaders like Amit Kshatriya supposed to be fixing this kind of thinking?

I'm hoping NASA can make incremental progress on changing these procedures. As it stands now, they'll get a chance to confirm their ability to service the FTS batteries while at the pad, right? So there will be less pressure to launch shortly after leaving the VAB. With those extra weeks of time sitting at the pad, could erecting and later removing the TSMU access scaffolding be part of the planned timeline?
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Offline jadebenn

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #714 on: 02/04/2026 08:35 pm »
Why not just bite the bullet? Roll to the pad with the TSMU disconnected, then erect the scaffolding, and make the connection there?

Because a lot of involved folks will point out that rolling out from the VAB to the launch pad, with all the QD connections already hooked up to the LV, is how it's been done since the Apollo days.

In that regard NASA in incredibly averse to change.
The real reason is because doing vehicle checkout in the VAB is the entire point of the VAB. The pad isn't a good environment to be out at doing highly technical work.

They might change the procedure if it really is necessary, but if it isn't, doing that work at the pad doesn't make sense and just complicates the pad flow.
« Last Edit: 02/04/2026 08:36 pm by jadebenn »

Offline jadebenn

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #715 on: 02/04/2026 08:37 pm »
Quote
DutchSpace
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Ok, did some digging, as I was fed up with blurry pics.

Here it is, in full glory, the LH2 umbilical carrier plate, on the ground (TSMU side) and vehicle (SLS side)

https://x.com/DutchSpace/status/2019154963218268234


Update: I added the NASA Engineering video that these came from


https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lsx98n3RH8Q#t=3991s
Not sure if these images are current. There were some changes after Artemis I that were supposed to prevent what just happened.
« Last Edit: 02/04/2026 08:48 pm by catdlr »

Offline Coastal Ron

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #716 on: 02/04/2026 08:48 pm »
Related article:

NASA finally acknowledges the elephant in the room with the SLS rocket - Ars Technica

Relevant quote, since they are talking about the challenges of this Artemis II flight:
Quote
During the news conference, I asked about this low flight rate and the challenge of managing a complex rocket that will never be more than anything but an experimental system. The answer from NASA’s top civil servant, Amit Kshatriya, was eye-opening.

“You know, you’re right, the flight rate—three years is a long time between the first and second,” NASA’s associate administrator said. “It is going to be experimental, because of going to the Moon in this configuration, with the energies we’re dealing with. And every time we do it these are very bespoke components, they’re in many cases made by incredible craftsmen. … It’s the first time this particular machine has borne witness to cryogens, and how it breathes, and how it vents, and how it wants to leak is something we have to characterize. And so every time we do it, we’re going to have to do that separately.”

So there you have it. Every SLS rocket is a work of art, every launch campaign an adventure, every mission subject to excessive delays. It’s definitely not ideal.

If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline catdlr

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #717 on: 02/04/2026 08:50 pm »
Quote
DutchSpace
@DutchSpace
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1m
Ok, did some digging, as I was fed up with blurry pics.

Here it is, in full glory, the LH2 umbilical carrier plate, on the ground (TSMU side) and vehicle (SLS side)

https://x.com/DutchSpace/status/2019154963218268234


Update: I added the NASA Engineering video that these came from


https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lsx98n3RH8Q#t=3991s
Not sure if these images are current. There were some changes after Artemis I that were supposed to prevent what just happened.

It was meant to provide information about what these plates are and do.  Relevant to the recent WDR issues.
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Offline sdsds

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #718 on: 02/04/2026 08:52 pm »
The real reason is because doing vehicle checkout in the VAB is the entire point of the VAB. The pad isn't a good environment to be out at doing highly technical work.

Right. Doing that work in the VAB makes sense in theory. If that is a requirement, the entire system needs to preserve the integrity of the seals from the VAB all the way to launch. And we now have pretty solid evidence it doesn't. Somewhere there's been a mischaracterization of the environments those seals experience during the roll.

Personally I'm guessing that during the roll the seals get exposed to out-of-spec forces and torques, imposed on the stack by the inertia of the massive five segment boosters. Did somebody forget to account for the mass of the fifth segment?
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Offline saturnapollo

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Re: Artemis II : Discussion Thread
« Reply #719 on: 02/05/2026 04:05 am »
I would prefer they were given high spec cameras with decent lenses. Lenses are just as important has high resolution.

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