Author Topic: Could FH launch Orion? (Read 4086 times)

Vultur · « **on:** 09/03/2022 10:09 pm »

I would think that FH's payload capability would be at least enough to get Orion to LEO. But what kind of modifications would be needed to make that work? Could all the modifications be on the FH side (no changes to Orion)?

Jim · « **Reply #1 on:** 09/03/2022 10:11 pm »

No, NASA studied it

leovinus · « **Reply #2 on:** 09/03/2022 10:38 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 09/03/2022 10:11 pm

No, NASA studied it

Sounds like fun

Do you have a NTRS number or something to follow up?

spacenut · « **Reply #3 on:** 09/03/2022 10:42 pm »

There was a thread on this somewhere. It could to orbit, but not to the moon.

leovinus · « **Reply #4 on:** 09/03/2022 10:55 pm »

Quote from: spacenut on 09/03/2022 10:42 pm

There was a thread on this somewhere. It could to orbit, but not to the moon.

Thanks for the hint. Should have known

A pointer to the "official" NASA report would still be appreciated.

Could Falcon-9 Heavy launch Orion? 2009
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16319.0

Orion on a Falcon 9 Heavy? 2008-2011
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15233.0

Could a Falcon Heavy launch Orion? ~2015
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36567.0

Robotbeat · « **Reply #5 on:** 09/03/2022 11:37 pm »

Quote from: spacenut on 09/03/2022 10:42 pm

There was a thread on this somewhere. It could to orbit, but not to the moon.

Could get it to the Moon just fine with Constellation-style LEO rendezvous with, say, iCPS. Both to an elliptical low earth orbit.

It couldn’t for Artemis I because they deleted the docking port on Artemis I’s Orion.

MP99 · « **Reply #6 on:** 09/05/2022 02:23 pm »

BOTE, FH in expendable mode could possibly lift Orion and ICPS (must be close to 60t?) to LEO.

Can't imagine NASA accepting the necessary margins to put a crew in there, though.

Cheers, Martin

TrevorMonty · « **Reply #7 on:** 09/05/2022 03:11 pm »

Quote from: MP99 on 09/05/2022 02:23 pm

BOTE, FH in expendable mode could possibly lift Orion and ICPS (must be close to 60t?) to LEO.

Can't imagine NASA accepting the necessary margins to put a crew in there, though.

Cheers, Martin

It would be 3 launch mission. Crew on Dragon to LEO. 2xFH one for Orion and another for EDS. Still a lot of development work required and pad modifications if EDS uses LH for fuel.

If EDS attaches to docking port then forces from its burn are in opposite direction to how Orion and its service module were designed. Attaching EDS to bottom of service module is not easy thing to do. EDS also needs to survive hours if not days in LEO for this to happen.

MP99 · « **Reply #8 on:** 09/05/2022 08:43 pm »

Quote from: TrevorMonty on 09/05/2022 03:11 pm

Quote from: MP99 on 09/05/2022 02:23 pm
BOTE, FH in expendable mode could possibly lift Orion and ICPS (must be close to 60t?) to LEO.

Can't imagine NASA accepting the necessary margins to put a crew in there, though.

Cheers, Martin
It would be 3 launch mission. Crew on Dragon to LEO. 2xFH one for Orion and another for EDS. Still a lot of development work required and pad modifications if EDS uses LH for fuel.

If EDS attaches to docking port then forces from its burn are in opposite direction to how Orion and its service module were designed. Attaching EDS to bottom of service module is not easy thing to do. EDS also needs to survive hours if not days in LEO for this to happen.

Agree that the three launch version is un-feasible.

If crew were launched separately (two launch), then removing the LAS from the launch mass would help a bit. Still not great for boiloff on the ICPS.

Cheers, Martin

clongton · « **Reply #9 on:** 01/15/2024 08:02 pm »

Quote from: woods170 on 01/12/2024 12:45 pm

Remember, this whole series of events happened just months after then NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine had proposed to fly Orion on Falcon Heavy, to counter growing public and political criticism that Orion and SLS wouldn't be ready to meet the ambitious goals of the (then) fledgling "back to the Moon" efforts launched by VP Mike Pence just weeks before.

Not really on topic but I HAD to step thru this door that Woods open up for me. I STILL believe NASA should fly Orion on the Falcon Heavy and scrap the albatross SLS. It would save SO much time, SO much money, SO many headaches, and open up SO many opportunities that can NEVER happen with SLS.

punder · « **Reply #10 on:** 01/15/2024 08:23 pm »

Quote from: clongton on 01/15/2024 08:02 pm

Quote from: woods170 on 01/12/2024 12:45 pm
Remember, this whole series of events happened just months after then NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine had proposed to fly Orion on Falcon Heavy, to counter growing public and political criticism that Orion and SLS wouldn't be ready to meet the ambitious goals of the (then) fledgling "back to the Moon" efforts launched by VP Mike Pence just weeks before.

Not really on topic but I HAD to step thru this door that Woods open up for me. I STILL believe NASA should fly Orion on the Falcon Heavy and scrap the albatross SLS. It would save SO much time, SO much money, SO many headaches, and open up SO many opportunities that can NEVER happen with SLS.

That might have worked had development started when Bridenstine mentioned it, but now, a Dragon/Starship end-run would probably be operational faster than FH/Orion, especially since FH/Orion would require integration and testing of hardware from multiple old-guard contractors with a serious financial/institutional grudge against the booster provider. Just imh amateur o.

Edit, sorry to continue the off-topic, but it IS clongton after all…

Jim · « **Reply #11 on:** 01/15/2024 08:31 pm »

Quote from: punder on 01/15/2024 08:23 pm

especially since FH/Orion would require integration and testing of hardware from multiple old-guard contractors with a serious financial/institutional grudge against the booster provider.

Huh?

How do you think other Boeing and LM spacecraft are able to be flown on Falcon?

punder · « **Reply #12 on:** 01/15/2024 08:50 pm »

Quote from: Jim on 01/15/2024 08:31 pm

Quote from: punder on 01/15/2024 08:23 pm
especially since FH/Orion would require integration and testing of hardware from multiple old-guard contractors with a serious financial/institutional grudge against the booster provider.
Huh?

How do you think other Boeing and LM spacecraft are able to be flown on Falcon?

Yeah I knew I’d get reasonable pushback there, but were NASA to replace SLS with Falcon Heavy for Orion launches, I can’t imagine there wouldn’t be some serious resentment on the part of many, many players (as there obviously was when Bridenstine floated the idea). But I take your point.

Jim · « **Reply #13 on:** 01/16/2024 01:38 am »

Quote from: punder on 01/15/2024 08:50 pm

Yeah I knew I’d get reasonable pushback there, but were NASA to replace SLS with Falcon Heavy for Orion launches, I can’t imagine there wouldn’t be some serious resentment on the part of many, many players (as there obviously was when Bridenstine floated the idea). But I take your point.

Doesn't matter. Those players would be no longer players and don't have any influence. Boeing Satellites are in SoCal and wouldn't care about Boeing Huntsville or Michoud. And NG SoCal, SW and DC area wouldn't care about NG Utah.
LM Orion is unaffected.
It was congress that had the issue with the idea.

zubenelgenubi · « **Reply #14 on:** 01/16/2024 05:27 pm »

Moderator:
Another moderator split/merged recent posts on this topic discussion from the current Starliner discussion thread to this thread.

Edited