SpaceX did something else that put them ahead—they basically ignored the pandemic while others slowed down considerably. India for example.
Quote from: Greg Hullender on 08/12/2022 09:59 pmThey should invite SpaceX to launch from the Guiana Space Centre. I hear the ELS pad is available now. :-)--GregI get it, tongue in cheek.But actually, Europe would have a lot to gain if they welcomed SX with open arms to make a new pad .. maybe a starship pad
They should invite SpaceX to launch from the Guiana Space Centre. I hear the ELS pad is available now. :-)--Greg
Quote from: edkyle99 on 08/12/2022 12:49 pmWould be "temporary" to bridge a gap. SpaceX one of several options. Japan and India are other options. Soyuz was only flying once or twice a year from Kourou, so this probably would not amount to a large number of flights. - Ed KyleWay to sandbag, Ed!SpaceX's dominance isn't total, permanent, or all that significant, really, in the global sense of things.Right
Would be "temporary" to bridge a gap. SpaceX one of several options. Japan and India are other options. Soyuz was only flying once or twice a year from Kourou, so this probably would not amount to a large number of flights. - Ed Kyle
Quote from: Comga on 08/12/2022 07:28 pmQuote from: edkyle99 on 08/12/2022 12:49 pmWould be "temporary" to bridge a gap. SpaceX one of several options. Japan and India are other options. Soyuz was only flying once or twice a year from Kourou, so this probably would not amount to a large number of flights. - Ed KyleWay to sandbag, Ed!SpaceX's dominance isn't total, permanent, or all that significant, really, in the global sense of things.RightI pointed out that the number of Soyuz launches to replace is small, which is a fact. I'm not trying to make a larger point. - Ed Kyle
Quote from: rpapo on 08/12/2022 11:14 pmQuote from: Comga on 08/12/2022 07:28 pmRemember that theirs were the guys who spit, physically not metaphorically, on Musk for being so presumptive as to ask to buy their glorious rockets just because he was rich. (About a third of a billion dollars! Woo Hoo!)Now he is worth that much. Then he was a nobody, from their point of view. He had "only" $170-180M in cash burning a hole in his pocket at the time, which was nothing to the oligarchs, and not that big a deal by Silicon Valley standards.But I agree. Karma can really bite sometimes.Actually he is worth a few magnitudes more than that. Just look up his current pay package in stock options with Tesla.
Quote from: Comga on 08/12/2022 07:28 pmRemember that theirs were the guys who spit, physically not metaphorically, on Musk for being so presumptive as to ask to buy their glorious rockets just because he was rich. (About a third of a billion dollars! Woo Hoo!)Now he is worth that much. Then he was a nobody, from their point of view. He had "only" $170-180M in cash burning a hole in his pocket at the time, which was nothing to the oligarchs, and not that big a deal by Silicon Valley standards.But I agree. Karma can really bite sometimes.
Remember that theirs were the guys who spit, physically not metaphorically, on Musk for being so presumptive as to ask to buy their glorious rockets just because he was rich. (About a third of a billion dollars! Woo Hoo!)
It's fair to say that the invasion of Ukraine at the moment when the rocket fleets worldwide are turning over has put everybody except SpaceX in a bind.So far, SpaceX is managing the transition well. Rather than "this is what dominance gives you," I would say "this is what reusability gives you."
Does anyone know if any of these ESA missions could be done RTLS,
if some starlink launches could be done with fewer satellites and do RTLS?
Does anyone know if any of these ESA missions could be done RTLS, or if some starlink launches could be done with fewer satellites and do RTLS?
Quote from: Blackjax on 08/13/2022 01:42 pmDoes anyone know if any of these ESA missions could be done RTLS, or if some starlink launches could be done with fewer satellites and do RTLS? That's actually the plan if one of the barges takes some unexpected time off. Right now they mainly want to launch as much as they can as fast as they can.
Quote from: Nomadd on 08/13/2022 03:40 pmQuote from: Blackjax on 08/13/2022 01:42 pmDoes anyone know if any of these ESA missions could be done RTLS, or if some starlink launches could be done with fewer satellites and do RTLS? That's actually the plan if one of the barges takes some unexpected time off. Right now they mainly want to launch as much as they can as fast as they can. Been waiting to see if/when a RTLS Starlink launch might happen. My own pet theory is that the F9 Upper State is too valuable because it maybe their production limit.
Other missions, for example the take Gallileo launches, will result in the Falcon upper-stage will become a huge space debits item. I also think Ariane 6 requires the ASTRIS kick-stage for these missions. I think PSLV or GSLV are much better suited for these launches. Because of the in orbit/ kick stages they use.
After reading three pages of mostly nonsens replies. Here's my attempt for a little bit more informative post.ESA (the European Space Agency) has a small number of payloads manifested on Soyuz-ST for the 2022-2023 period.- Several launches with multiple Gallileo (EUSPA GNSS) satellites. 2-4x ~700kg to MEO 23222km 66° - ESA M2 Euclid ~2200kg to Earth-Sun L2- ESA Earth Explorer 6; EurthCARE. 2350kg to SSO ~400kmThis are the missions ESA (/EUSPA) is searching alternative launchers for because the Soyuz-ST isn't available any longer. So this is like the NASA or the USAF is requesting launch options for some payloads.Soyuz has launched commercially 64x for the STARSEM alliance, 27x from ELS France Guiana (VSxx launches) and 37x from other Soyuz pads (STXX missions). The Oneweb contract was the last commercial contract the Starsem alliance closed. After this contract Russian companies were selected to sell Soyuz lunches commercially.In 2011 the development of Ariane 6 was initiated because for many European institutional payloads Arianespace only had the Soyuz-ST as launch option. And Russia was increasing Soyuz launch cost. The development of Ariane 6 and Vega C should change that, but the developments aren't finished jet.Vega-C has successfully flown it's maiden launch. Ariane 6 is in final phases of development, but problems still could emerge. It that happens, ESA has to search other launch options for more payloads.The Falcon 9 with horizontal payload integration could be a suitable launch option for some satellites. Some require vertical payload integration. when does that become available?Other missions, for example the take Gallileo launches, will result in the Falcon upper-stage will become a huge space debits item. I also think Ariane 6 requires the ASTRIS kick-stage for these missions. I think PSLV or GSLV are much better suited for these launches. Because of the in orbit/ kick stages they use.
Falcon 9 injects GPS satellites into a transfer to a very similar MEO and does a deorbit burn on those missions. Does Galileo need direct-to-MEO with circularization from the launch vehicle?
Quote from: punder on 08/13/2022 01:59 amSpaceX did something else that put them ahead—they basically ignored the pandemic while others slowed down considerably. India for example.Is this meant to be a criticism or a compliment?
Quote from: Jim on 08/12/2022 01:19 pmQuote from: M.E.T. on 08/12/2022 12:57 pmThat’s the power that utter market dominance gives you. Even the harshest critics are forced to come begging. Amazon Kuiper stands alone in their willingness to throw vast amounts of cash needlessly into the fire just to spite their competitor.I’m thoroughly enjoying events as they play out. And this enjoyment is what the “supporters of more competition” in the launch industry want to rob us of? No thank you. Long may the dominance continue.This is idiotic. I don't want one car, one plane, etcFar be it for me to tell you what to want or not want.I, on the other hand, greatly enjoy SpaceX’s dominance. It all goes into funding the Mars program.
Quote from: M.E.T. on 08/12/2022 12:57 pmThat’s the power that utter market dominance gives you. Even the harshest critics are forced to come begging. Amazon Kuiper stands alone in their willingness to throw vast amounts of cash needlessly into the fire just to spite their competitor.I’m thoroughly enjoying events as they play out. And this enjoyment is what the “supporters of more competition” in the launch industry want to rob us of? No thank you. Long may the dominance continue.This is idiotic. I don't want one car, one plane, etc
That’s the power that utter market dominance gives you. Even the harshest critics are forced to come begging. Amazon Kuiper stands alone in their willingness to throw vast amounts of cash needlessly into the fire just to spite their competitor.I’m thoroughly enjoying events as they play out. And this enjoyment is what the “supporters of more competition” in the launch industry want to rob us of? No thank you. Long may the dominance continue.
Quote from: M.E.T. on 08/12/2022 01:23 pmQuote from: Jim on 08/12/2022 01:19 pmQuote from: M.E.T. on 08/12/2022 12:57 pmThat’s the power that utter market dominance gives you. Even the harshest critics are forced to come begging. Amazon Kuiper stands alone in their willingness to throw vast amounts of cash needlessly into the fire just to spite their competitor.I’m thoroughly enjoying events as they play out. And this enjoyment is what the “supporters of more competition” in the launch industry want to rob us of? No thank you. Long may the dominance continue.This is idiotic. I don't want one car, one plane, etcFar be it for me to tell you what to want or not want.I, on the other hand, greatly enjoy SpaceX’s dominance. It all goes into funding the Mars program.One born every minute, one born every minute.
