F9/D2 from Kourou

[sdsds]

The Guiana Space Centre is Europe's spaceport, located to the northwest of Kourou in French Guiana. Soyuz-ST launch vehicles have launched 27 times from the ELS (Ensemble de Lancement Soyouz) launch complex there.

Like Soyuz, F9 uses RP-1 and LOX as propellants.

What's the scope of work that would be needed to launch F9 from ELS? With Dragon as the spacecraft payload, would anything prevent humans launched from there reaching the equatorial low-Earth orbits that benefit from reduced space radiation (due to avoidance of the South Atlantic Anomaly)?

[Alvian@IDN]

Current launch pads covered all needs. And with Starship on the horizon, this seems as likely as seeing the ESA having their own crewed spacecrafts

[daedalus1]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

[sdsds]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

[kevinof]

 But where would a crew launched from there go to?

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

[su27k]

But where would a crew launched from there go to?

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

There're proposals to build space settlement at Equatorial Low Earth Orbit (ELEO), see Al Globus' paper for an example.

[su27k]

A more realistic question is whether it would be worth it to launch Starship from Kourou. Could be useful if Europe ever wants to build SBSP at GEO.

[daedalus1]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

I don't think that is correct. Yes there will be a small mass penalty, but not enough to effect a Dragon launch.

[AmigaClone]

As others have mentioned, with the current flight cadence there is no need for another F9/D2 launch pad. Even if there was an agreement about adding a F9/D2 launch pad in Kourou, it likely might be easier to convert ELA-2 to support a Falcon 9 than to convert the ELS to use the same rocket.

On the other hand, I don't see SpaceX being interested in launching a F9/D2 from Kourou, especially since there are no customers that can only be served by that pad.

I can see the possibility of SpaceX being open to the idea of an agreement with ESA to add a 'Starbase Kourou' with a second mass production site for Starships/boosters along with another launch pad or two.

[Orbiter]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

I don't think that is correct. Yes there will be a small mass penalty, but not enough to effect a Dragon launch.

The amount of fuel left onboard F9 during a Dragon launch is insufficient to conduct a ~28.6 degree plane change.

[daedalus1]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

I don't think that is correct. Yes there will be a small mass penalty, but not enough to effect a Dragon launch.

The amount of fuel left onboard F9 during a Dragon launch is insufficient to conduct a ~28.6 degree plane change.

Then how come it does it in the other direction, the ISS is at 51.6°.

[DanClemmensen]

Why would they build F9 infrastructure in Kourou (or anywhere else)? If Starship succeeds, SpaceX will quit using F9 except to fulfill existing contracts for CCP and CRS, and then terminate the F9 program, possibly within three years and almostt certainly within six years. Also recall that F9 support includes a recovery fleet and a refurbishing facility. Starship from Kourou might make sense.

[edkyle99]

Who actually owns the ELS launch hardware?  Is it owned by Arianespace or by Russian entities? 

Either way, seems to me an opportunity for Europe to develop its own RP/LOX recoverable launch system that some have talked about.

 - Ed Kyle

[DanClemmensen]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

I don't think that is correct. Yes there will be a small mass penalty, but not enough to effect a Dragon launch.

The amount of fuel left onboard F9 during a Dragon launch is insufficient to conduct a ~28.6 degree plane change.

Then how come it does it in the other direction, the ISS is at 51.6°.

From a site at a given latitude, all orbital planes with inclinations higher than that latitude cross overhead twice a day. Lower inclination planes do not cross overhead and therefore would require a dogleg or other mechanism to change planes.

[sdsds]

I don't see SpaceX being interested in launching a F9/D2 from Kourou, especially since there are no customers that can only be served by that pad.

It's a niche market, certainly.

We know almost nothing about mammals reproducing and raising offspring anyplace other than the surface of the Earth (i.e. on land, or for whales, near-surface waters). It would be good to know more!

One approach is just to "wing it," and allow or encourage humans to reproduce at orbiting stations like ISS. If that works out okay, equatorial low-Earth orbits lose most or all of their attractiveness.

F9 support includes a recovery fleet and a refurbishing facility.

Operating the marine assets is indeed costly. For a crewed Dragon mission, booster RTLS probably can't be made to work, though that's based on some assumptions which might be interesting to re-examine. That said, every booster has a final flight. Conceivably some boosters might end with disposal in equatorial Atlantic waters.

[Comga]

It's much easier and much cheaper to send the crew to Florida.

But from Florida F9/D2 can't reach equatorial LEO.

I don't think that is correct. Yes there will be a small mass penalty, but not enough to effect a Dragon launch.

The amount of fuel left onboard F9 during a Dragon launch is insufficient to conduct a ~28.6 degree plane change.

Then how come it does it in the other direction, the ISS is at 51.6°.

From a site at a given latitude, all orbital planes with inclinations higher than that latitude cross overhead twice a day. Lower inclination planes do not cross overhead and therefore would require a dogleg or other mechanism to change planes.

With all due respect, this could be the worst NSF thread in a long time.

Trivially, IXPE launched on Falcon 9 to an equatorial (0 degree inclination). The (mother of all, 28 degree) plane change was mostly performed by the second stage. There was a SUBSTANTIAL reduction in capacity for the Falcon, but IXPE is small.

IXPE needed an equatorial orbit to avoid going thru the South Atlantic Anomaly to minimize radiation impacting its X-ray detectors.

What do you think needs to go to or maximize payload to a low inclination orbit?

Even if you had a good answer, building a new launch pad, out of the country no less, is NOT “the SpaceX way”. Squeezing out the last bit of performance at great expense goes against the grain.

“Why put legs and that other stuff on a booster when you could get an extra ton to orbit without them?”

And it’s not on the path to Mars

Edit: SpaceX just announced that they are ending the production of Dragons. They have enough for their plans. 
There will be no Dragons for a hypothetical South American launch site.

[sdsds]

With all due respect, this could be the worst NSF thread in a long time.

[...] IXPE launched on Falcon 9 to an equatorial (0 degree inclination).

[...]What do you think [...]
Even if you had a good answer,

You provide information for which I am grateful regarding IXPE. Thank you.

I'll limit my response to your other phrasing, which you characterize as duly respectful, by saying that even if you had a good question, your tone would preclude me from engaging in discussion with you.

[woods170]

Who actually owns the ELS launch hardware?  Is it owned by Arianespace or by Russian entities? 

The ELS launch hardware is owned by Starsem.

[hektor]

Kourou would be a perfect place to launch Starships. No neighbours, a lot of space, etc.

Unfortunately the Guianese would probably have to ask their independence from France and then vote to become the 51st state of the US to do that.

[lykos]

....Unfortunately the Guianese would probably have to ask their independence from France and then vote to become the 51st state of the US to do that.

I don't think so!
Otherwise P2P would never work!