-
#20
by
dgmckenzie
on 27 Feb, 2022 22:51
-
Without foreigners the USA wouldn't exist.
-
#21
by
Lar
on 28 Feb, 2022 00:09
-
Let's stay out of general politics, thanks
-
#22
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 00:54
-
I did not ask NGIS to start making Antares stages in the United States, so don't put words in my mouth. Northrop has over 5,245 job openings currently.
Few for foreigners.
Wars change rules. Without foreigners the USA wouldn’t have a rocket industry
This isn’t going to change the rules. And wrong on the second sentence. The US had a rocket industry before the Germans arrived
-
#23
by
spacenut
on 28 Feb, 2022 01:21
-
I did not ask NGIS to start making Antares stages in the United States, so don't put words in my mouth. Northrop has over 5,245 job openings currently.
Few for foreigners.
Wars change rules. Without foreigners the USA wouldn’t have a rocket industry
This isn’t going to change the rules. And wrong on the second sentence. The US had a rocket industry before the Germans arrived
Yes, Robert Goddard had built a rocket for the army, smaller but almost identical in operation to the V-2. Even Von Braun said we had a rocket, but didn't make it bigger.
-
#24
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 04:13
-
Yes, Robert Goddard had built a rocket for the army, smaller but almost identical in operation to the V-2. Even Von Braun said we had a rocket, but didn't make it bigger.
No, there was JPL, Aerojet and Martin.
-
#25
by
edkyle99
on 28 Feb, 2022 12:47
-
Yes, Robert Goddard had built a rocket for the army, smaller but almost identical in operation to the V-2. Even Von Braun said we had a rocket, but didn't make it bigger.
No, there was JPL, Aerojet and Martin.
Sure, but the vital contributions of emigres is impossible to dismiss. North American Aviation started Rocketdyne with Bill Bollay, whose family immigrated from Germany, and V-2 men from Peenemunde like Dieter Huzel and Walther Riedel. It also was one of the U.S. companies that got V-2 engines as a starting point. Convair's Karel Bossart, the "Father of the Atlas", was born in Belgium. Kraft Ehricke, who worked at Convair and designed Centaur, was another Peenemunde man. Not to mention the Ft. Bliss, later Huntsville, von Braun team's contributions. Elon Musk was born in Pretoria, South Africa. I'm sure there are many, many more examples.
- Ed Kyle
-
#26
by
spacenut
on 28 Feb, 2022 13:33
-
Yes, Robert Goddard had built a rocket for the army, smaller but almost identical in operation to the V-2. Even Von Braun said we had a rocket, but didn't make it bigger.
No, there was JPL, Aerojet and Martin.
This is a quote out of Wikipedia:
"Nevertheless, in 1963, von Braun, reflecting on the history of rocketry, said of Goddard: "His rockets ... may have been rather crude by present-day standards, but they blazed the trail and incorporated many features used in our most modern rockets and space vehicles".[86] He once recalled that "Goddard's experiments in liquid fuel saved us years of work, and enabled us to perfect the V-2 years before it would have been possible."[87] After World War II von Braun reviewed Goddard's patents and believed they contained enough technical information to build a large missile.[88]
Three features developed by Goddard appeared in the V-2: (1) turbopumps were used to inject fuel into the combustion chamber; (2) gyroscopically controlled vanes in the nozzle stabilized the rocket until external vanes in the air could do so; and (3) excess alcohol was fed in around the combustion chamber walls, so that a blanket of evaporating gas protected the engine walls from the combustion heat. [89]
The Germans had been watching Goddard's progress before the war and became convinced that large, liquid fuel rockets were feasible. General Walter Dornberger, head of the V-2 project, used the idea that they were in a race with the U.S. and that Goddard had "disappeared" (to work with the Navy) as a way to persuade Hitler to raise the priority of the V-2."
So, Wikipedia says Goddard was watched and copied by the Germans. I'm saying we had Robert Goddard's work, but our government didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him. We didn't need the Germans, we had our own Von Braun.
-
#27
by
Robotbeat
on 28 Feb, 2022 13:41
-
I absolutely do think It is within the realm of possibility that a special immigration allowance could happen.
This is a huge event. The world is changing. A lot of things are up in the air, now. For instance, Japan now debating developing nuclear weapons, which might have been unthinkable 10-20 years ago. So special immigration permits for natsec-relevant professionals from Ukraine is not at all beyond the realm of possibility.
-
#28
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 13:42
-
So, Wikipedia says Goddard was watched and copied by the Germans. I'm saying we had Robert Goddard's work, but our government didn't pay a whole lot of attention to him.
Goddard was a loner and would not share the results of his work JPL tried to talk with him and he was tightlipped.
-
#29
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 13:43
-
I absolutely do think It is within the realm of possibility that a special immigration allowance could happen.
This is a huge event. The world is changing. A lot of things are up in the air, now. For instance, Japan now debating developing nuclear weapons, which might have been unthinkable 10-20 years ago. So special immigration permits for natsec-relevant professionals from Ukraine is not at all beyond the realm of possibility.
Why? They really aren't needed.
-
#30
by
Robotbeat
on 28 Feb, 2022 13:46
-
Would deny them to Russia.
Anyway, there is a huge range of possibilities right now. That is one of them. I can’t say it has less than a, say, 10% chance of happening.
-
#31
by
VaBlue
on 28 Feb, 2022 13:56
-
I did not ask NGIS to start making Antares stages in the United States, so don't put words in my mouth. Northrop has over 5,245 job openings currently.
Few for foreigners.
Wars change rules. Without foreigners the USA wouldn’t have a rocket industry
This isn’t going to change the rules. And wrong on the second sentence. The US had a rocket industry before the Germans arrived
The bold edit is mine - and on this point I agree with Jim. Bringing Ukrainians into the US would be a humanitarian move worthy of consideration, but it will not be for filling NG's job openings. I have no idea how many of those positions require a security clearance, but rules for gaining said clearance will not change - and citizens of foreign countries (especially non-NATO countries) do not get them. While exceptions can always be made, they would be for exceptional - generational - people, not for some refugee that used to work in someone's rocket factory.
-
#32
by
Robotbeat
on 28 Feb, 2022 14:09
-
I’ve known many foreign nationals working in aerospace, even at NASA.
Security clearance is one thing, but these professionals wouldn’t have been able to get US security clearance while living in Ukraine, either, and NG needed some of them at hand for Antares integration and/or launch before.
If security clearance wasn’t necessary for Ukrainians to build Antares first stages in Ukraine, it wouldn’t be needed for Ukrainians building Antares stages in the US, either.
-
#33
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 14:56
-
If security clearance wasn’t necessary for Ukrainians to build Antares first stages in Ukraine, it wouldn’t be needed for Ukrainians building Antares stages in the US, either.
It is not security clearance. ITAR and export control is a different bag of worms and there are road blocks.
-
#34
by
Robotbeat
on 28 Feb, 2022 15:58
-
If security clearance wasn’t necessary for Ukrainians to build Antares first stages in Ukraine, it wouldn’t be needed for Ukrainians building Antares stages in the US, either.
It is not security clearance. ITAR and export control is a different bag of worms and there are road blocks.
All solvable with changes in regulation, approval of special green cards or other procedures.
-
#35
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 16:47
-
If security clearance wasn’t necessary for Ukrainians to build Antares first stages in Ukraine, it wouldn’t be needed for Ukrainians building Antares stages in the US, either.
It is not security clearance. ITAR and export control is a different bag of worms and there are road blocks.
All solvable with changes in regulation, approval of special green cards or other procedures.
Which is not going to happen and likely become more restrictive.
-
#36
by
VaBlue
on 28 Feb, 2022 17:08
-
I’ve known many foreign nationals working in aerospace, even at NASA.
Security clearance is one thing, but these professionals wouldn’t have been able to get US security clearance while living in Ukraine, either, and NG needed some of them at hand for Antares integration and/or launch before.
If security clearance wasn’t necessary for Ukrainians to build Antares first stages in Ukraine, it wouldn’t be needed for Ukrainians building Antares stages in the US, either.
Context matters... I was responding to the question of whether Ukrainian refugees could fill the existing NG job openings. That answer is - in most probable cases - no. If you just want to recreate a Ukrainian production line in the US, then special waivers could probably be granted for some line working refugees fairly quickly (given a compelling need, which I don't think we have). It won't happen for 'run of the mill' workers, but senior engineers and supervisors - the guys that can make it work - could get in. Tooling a factory and sourcing parts is another question, and may be where ITAR comes into play. Getting a visa to support a work project (ie: launch) is simple - we do things like that all over the world everyday.
I agree with your premise - foreign nationals already work here, and it seems like an easy stretch to bring in refugee workers and start up an assembly line. But never underestimate our government's ability to gum up the works!
-
#37
by
Robotbeat
on 28 Feb, 2022 17:11
-
Agreed, Va!
-
#38
by
Jim
on 28 Feb, 2022 17:42
-
I agree with your premise - foreign nationals already work here,
not in ITAR industries.
-
#39
by
TrevorMonty
on 28 Feb, 2022 17:55
-
NG tweeted that they have alternative LV options from ULA, SpaceX and Blue.
With 2 Antares on hand so not likely to need alternative LV for at least 2 years. Plenty of time to see how things panout with Ukraine war.
Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk
