Quote from: DanClemmensen on 01/13/2024 02:44 pm<snip>A close flying Starlink is probably the quickest and easiest way to provide a laser ISL for the Polaris mission, but how can Crew Dragon interconnect to to the close flyer at high data rates with little or no NRE? Existing Radio? A Starlink user terminal? CAT5 cable ? If radio, how/why would the Crew Dragon's radio system have any faster connectivity with the close flyer than with the rest of the Starlink system?I don't know if a Starlink user terminal could be used without modification. Presumably the directional phased array antenna could be replaced with an omni. The protocols may have been created with an implicit assumption about the minimum distance (i.e., minimum delay) from user to satellite. The satellite also uses a directional phased array antenna for its user links that may also need to be replaced by an omni, but that would be hard if the antenna is also the ground link antenna. Kill the ground link since you intend to use ISL? but that requires the Starlink to enter the net using only ISL, which is also not a design requirement for the protocols.Any good engineering group could solve this in multiple different ways with a new design. I'm asking if there is a solution that needs at most minimal new hardware and software design.Just mounted 10 fixed phased array antennas of the latest kickstand Starlink user terminal type in the trunk underneath dielectric panels orientated like the facets of a ten sided dice. Somewhat similar to how the USN gets omni coverage with the Aegis radar arrays on their warships.
<snip>A close flying Starlink is probably the quickest and easiest way to provide a laser ISL for the Polaris mission, but how can Crew Dragon interconnect to to the close flyer at high data rates with little or no NRE? Existing Radio? A Starlink user terminal? CAT5 cable ? If radio, how/why would the Crew Dragon's radio system have any faster connectivity with the close flyer than with the rest of the Starlink system?I don't know if a Starlink user terminal could be used without modification. Presumably the directional phased array antenna could be replaced with an omni. The protocols may have been created with an implicit assumption about the minimum distance (i.e., minimum delay) from user to satellite. The satellite also uses a directional phased array antenna for its user links that may also need to be replaced by an omni, but that would be hard if the antenna is also the ground link antenna. Kill the ground link since you intend to use ISL? but that requires the Starlink to enter the net using only ISL, which is also not a design requirement for the protocols.Any good engineering group could solve this in multiple different ways with a new design. I'm asking if there is a solution that needs at most minimal new hardware and software design.
Quote from: Zed_Noir on 01/13/2024 08:07 pmQuote from: DanClemmensen on 01/13/2024 02:44 pm<snip>A close flying Starlink is probably the quickest and easiest way to provide a laser ISL for the Polaris mission, but how can Crew Dragon interconnect to to the close flyer at high data rates with little or no NRE? Existing Radio? A Starlink user terminal? CAT5 cable ? If radio, how/why would the Crew Dragon's radio system have any faster connectivity with the close flyer than with the rest of the Starlink system?I don't know if a Starlink user terminal could be used without modification. Presumably the directional phased array antenna could be replaced with an omni. The protocols may have been created with an implicit assumption about the minimum distance (i.e., minimum delay) from user to satellite. The satellite also uses a directional phased array antenna for its user links that may also need to be replaced by an omni, but that would be hard if the antenna is also the ground link antenna. Kill the ground link since you intend to use ISL? but that requires the Starlink to enter the net using only ISL, which is also not a design requirement for the protocols.Any good engineering group could solve this in multiple different ways with a new design. I'm asking if there is a solution that needs at most minimal new hardware and software design.Just mounted 10 fixed phased array antennas of the latest kickstand Starlink user terminal type in the trunk underneath dielectric panels orientated like the facets of a ten sided dice. Somewhat similar to how the USN gets omni coverage with the Aegis radar arrays on their warships.This is gross overkill for communicating with a close flyer. An omni is basically just the unterminated end of the coax that leads to the phased array antenna. This would be about 10dB down from your decahedron. You just don't need that gain when the other radio is less than a kilometer away.<snip>
Quote from: DanClemmensen on 01/13/2024 10:02 pmQuote from: Zed_Noir on 01/13/2024 08:07 pmQuote from: DanClemmensen on 01/13/2024 02:44 pm<snip>A close flying Starlink is probably the quickest and easiest way to provide a laser ISL for the Polaris mission, but how can Crew Dragon interconnect to to the close flyer at high data rates with little or no NRE? Existing Radio? A Starlink user terminal? CAT5 cable ? If radio, how/why would the Crew Dragon's radio system have any faster connectivity with the close flyer than with the rest of the Starlink system?I don't know if a Starlink user terminal could be used without modification. Presumably the directional phased array antenna could be replaced with an omni. The protocols may have been created with an implicit assumption about the minimum distance (i.e., minimum delay) from user to satellite. The satellite also uses a directional phased array antenna for its user links that may also need to be replaced by an omni, but that would be hard if the antenna is also the ground link antenna. Kill the ground link since you intend to use ISL? but that requires the Starlink to enter the net using only ISL, which is also not a design requirement for the protocols.Any good engineering group could solve this in multiple different ways with a new design. I'm asking if there is a solution that needs at most minimal new hardware and software design.Just mounted 10 fixed phased array antennas of the latest kickstand Starlink user terminal type in the trunk underneath dielectric panels orientated like the facets of a ten sided dice. Somewhat similar to how the USN gets omni coverage with the Aegis radar arrays on their warships.This is gross overkill for communicating with a close flyer. An omni is basically just the unterminated end of the coax that leads to the phased array antenna. This would be about 10dB down from your decahedron. You just don't need that gain when the other radio is less than a kilometer away.<snip>Of course it is overkill. However you did ask for minimum new hardware. So proposed mounting the kickstand user terminals as is. The decahedron arrangement is to ensure no blind spots in coverage plus the bonus of always having an antenna that can communicated with the ground no matter the attitude of the spacecraft.
I'm not sure what that permit has to do with this thread. It's not related with Polaris Dawn...
In a Tweet last year, Elon Musk confirmed that Starlink laser-based communication was coming to SpaceX’s Dragon capsule. Now we know the Polaris Dawn mission will be the first crew to test out and make use of this additional connectivity option.
Quote from: Alexphysics on 01/26/2024 08:12 amI'm not sure what that permit has to do with this thread. It's not related with Polaris Dawn...SpaxeX ist planning Dragon-Starlink communication experiments on the Polaris Dawn flight. Which need a license.QuoteIn a Tweet last year, Elon Musk confirmed that Starlink laser-based communication was coming to SpaceX’s Dragon capsule. Now we know the Polaris Dawn mission will be the first crew to test out and make use of this additional connectivity option. https://spaceexplored.com/2022/02/17/starlink-expanding-coming-to-dragon-capsule-on-polaris-dawn-but-nasa-has-concerns-about-the-constellation/
It's relevant because it's a technology demonstration of a capability that Polaris Dawn is intending to use in a crew environment for the first time.
Quote from: Vettedrmr on 01/26/2024 01:20 pmIt's relevant because it's a technology demonstration of a capability that Polaris Dawn is intending to use in a crew environment for the first time.Then we should also post the same permits for carrying Starlink antennas on Starship. After all, it's the same thing as that other permit.
Targeting April 30th:QuoteNOAA's GOES-UEarth and Sun in High DefinitionComing no earlier than April 30, 2024https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/home/noaas-goes-u
NOAA's GOES-UEarth and Sun in High DefinitionComing no earlier than April 30, 2024
Quote from: zubenelgenubi on 01/25/2024 09:00 pmMight we see some not-required-to-use LC-39A launch or launches in March/earliest April between SpX-30 on F9, and GOES-U on FH?Depends on Polaris Dawn. If that's still scheduled for April then it'll have to launch Early-April (after CRS-30).
Might we see some not-required-to-use LC-39A launch or launches in March/earliest April between SpX-30 on F9, and GOES-U on FH?
Very solid @PolarisProgram training week. In addition to the sims, we spent a lot of time pressurized in the EVA suits working contingencies. Lots to get done, but it feels like momentum is building. Very grateful to the engineers & training team @SpaceX
Good questions: 1. No airlock. Dragon will vent to vacuum and then cabin will repressurize post-EVA. As a result, all 4 crew members are technically performing an EVA. 2. Suit pics will be released before the mission. 3. Throughout development & training, we simulate microgravity through an offload system. Though, as a crew, we do love SCUBA. 4. Yes, there is a documentary. Same doc crew as Inspiration4. I am hoping its really captures the story of all the badass SpaceX engineers that are developing the capabilities to make these objectives possible (very high apogee, EVA suit & operations, Starlink laserlink, science & research, etc). 5. I am feeling more confident by the day on launch timing, but we will provide more updates soon.
How much can you feel the difference between the IVA and EVA suits?
Very noticeable. Heavier and bulkier than the IVA suits, but they serve a much different purpose.
Before launch there is a test done on the hatch seal. Sometimes it requires the hatch being opened and seal cleaned and retest. How is this not a problem if doing an EVA?
The forward hatch has been exercised extensively in space (ISS missions, Inspiration4 accessing the cupola). Standard hatch has redundant seals, for Polaris Dawn additional modifications were made for safety.
@rookisaacman What still needs to be done before a launch date is chosen? 🚀
We have a target date, but still a lot to get through with dev and training. Qualification & acceptance tests on hardware w/ probably the biggest milestone the EVA suit ATP's. We are getting much closer.
Wang grew desperate. So he said something that chilled the nerves of those in Houston watching over the safety of the crew and the Shuttle mission."Hey, if you guys don't give me a chance to repair my instrument, I'm not going back," Wang said.
Regarding the surge of civilian space missions I wonder if this is a topic being included in trainings by @Axiom or @rookisaacman for his @PolarisProgram. Would be interesting to get more info on this!
Yes. There are real psychological implications to human spaceflight. This is not lost on the commercial industry and it is a component of the screening & training process.
No earlier than early 2024, SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket will launch the Polaris Dawn mission from historic Launch Complex 39A at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
No earlier than summer 2024, SpaceX’s Falcon 9 rocket will launch the Polaris Dawn mission from historic Launch Complex 39A at Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
We are now targeting no earlier than summer 2024 for launch of Polaris Dawn, the first of the Polaris Program’s three human spaceflights → polarisprogram.com/dawn/
The crew is actively training at Hawthorne to prepare for this mission’s goals, from the first commercial spacewalk to testing Starlink internet aboard Dragon to readying all of the science and research ahead of launch
The additional time continues to provide necessary developmental time to ensure both the completion of these mission goals and a safe launch and return of Dragon and the crew
The crew is also devoting time to outreach and continued fundraising and awareness for @StJude
