I believe the term is an “IVA” if you suit up in a vacuum but don’t leave the vehicle - at least that is what it was called in the ISS program the few times it has happened. (Unless my memory deceived me - might have been Mir internal spacewalks)
Russia and the U.S. define EVA differently. Russian cosmonauts are said to perform EVA any time they are in vacuum in a space suit. A U.S. astronaut must have at least his head outside his spacecraft before he is said to perform an EVA. The difference is based in differing spacecraft design philosophies. Russian and Soviet spacecraft have always had a specialized airlock through which the EVA cosmonaut egressed, leaving the main habitable volume of the spacecraft pressurized. The U.S. Gemini and Apollo vehicles, on the other hand, depressurized their entire habitable volume for egress.In this document, we apply the Russian definition to Russian EVAs, and the U.S. definition to U.S. EVAs. Thus, for example, Gemini 4 Command Pilot James McDivitt does not share the honor of being first American spacewalker with Ed White, even though he was suited and in vacuum when White stepped out into space.
I always wondered why this was not done on the last two missions - consumables issue, perhaps, or time-line clogging?
Quote from: daveglo on 02/14/2022 08:45 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 02/14/2022 06:00 pm... They will use an umbilical, so they don't need a life support backpack or a SAFER type system....You'd think they'll need SOMETHING for attitude control, unless we see some kind of handhold arrangement appearing on the outside of Dragon? Got to have something for the tethers to hang onto.It's cooler view than the I4 cupola, but two heads out the hatch are going to bang into one another a lot without some positional management.It will be interesting to hear about goals for the EVA. Is it just to prove out a new suit and air management procedures? Are they going to be able to reach the trunk? The image of the patch looks like the trunk has something poking out of it? A low-budget arm?This is going to be fascinating to watch develop.I would fully expect the Dragon and its trunk to be modified for this mission with handrails and / or other clip on points at strategic locations. One or both of them free-floating in front of the Dragon is unlikely, IMO, I would consider that artistic license (but if it happened they could use the umbilical to pull themselves back in). We don't know what the purpose of the EVA is yet, so beyond that it's harder to guess.
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 02/14/2022 06:00 pm... They will use an umbilical, so they don't need a life support backpack or a SAFER type system....You'd think they'll need SOMETHING for attitude control, unless we see some kind of handhold arrangement appearing on the outside of Dragon? Got to have something for the tethers to hang onto.It's cooler view than the I4 cupola, but two heads out the hatch are going to bang into one another a lot without some positional management.It will be interesting to hear about goals for the EVA. Is it just to prove out a new suit and air management procedures? Are they going to be able to reach the trunk? The image of the patch looks like the trunk has something poking out of it? A low-budget arm?This is going to be fascinating to watch develop.
... They will use an umbilical, so they don't need a life support backpack or a SAFER type system....
Quote from: Lars-J on 02/14/2022 03:57 pmQuote from: yg1968 on 02/14/2022 03:36 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 02/14/2022 03:08 pmQuote from: Conexion Espacial on 02/14/2022 02:58 pmSpaceFlightNow has provided some details:- Launch in November- The EVA will be with two astronauts.https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.EDIT: Another neat option might have been an airlock module in the trunk (attached to the 2nd stage for stability?), so just like an Apollo mission the Dragon would rotate and dock with it. But the mass of such an airlock module would preclude them from a higher LEO orbit.Obviously, there wouldn't be a cupola. Just depressurize the capsule and open the forward hatch. There is no special EVA hatch. The image shows someone in what looks like an IVA suit with an umbilical, so there would be no airlock.
Quote from: yg1968 on 02/14/2022 03:36 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 02/14/2022 03:08 pmQuote from: Conexion Espacial on 02/14/2022 02:58 pmSpaceFlightNow has provided some details:- Launch in November- The EVA will be with two astronauts.https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.EDIT: Another neat option might have been an airlock module in the trunk (attached to the 2nd stage for stability?), so just like an Apollo mission the Dragon would rotate and dock with it. But the mass of such an airlock module would preclude them from a higher LEO orbit.
Quote from: Lars-J on 02/14/2022 03:08 pmQuote from: Conexion Espacial on 02/14/2022 02:58 pmSpaceFlightNow has provided some details:- Launch in November- The EVA will be with two astronauts.https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.
Quote from: Conexion Espacial on 02/14/2022 02:58 pmSpaceFlightNow has provided some details:- Launch in November- The EVA will be with two astronauts.https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.
SpaceFlightNow has provided some details:- Launch in November- The EVA will be with two astronauts.https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 02/14/2022 09:13 pmQuote from: daveglo on 02/14/2022 08:45 pmQuote from: whitelancer64 on 02/14/2022 06:00 pm... They will use an umbilical, so they don't need a life support backpack or a SAFER type system....You'd think they'll need SOMETHING for attitude control, unless we see some kind of handhold arrangement appearing on the outside of Dragon? Got to have something for the tethers to hang onto.It's cooler view than the I4 cupola, but two heads out the hatch are going to bang into one another a lot without some positional management.It will be interesting to hear about goals for the EVA. Is it just to prove out a new suit and air management procedures? Are they going to be able to reach the trunk? The image of the patch looks like the trunk has something poking out of it? A low-budget arm?This is going to be fascinating to watch develop.I would fully expect the Dragon and its trunk to be modified for this mission with handrails and / or other clip on points at strategic locations. One or both of them free-floating in front of the Dragon is unlikely, IMO, I would consider that artistic license (but if it happened they could use the umbilical to pull themselves back in). We don't know what the purpose of the EVA is yet, so beyond that it's harder to guess.Quote from: whitelancer64 on 02/14/2022 04:27 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 02/14/2022 03:57 pmQuote from: yg1968 on 02/14/2022 03:36 pmQuote from: Lars-J on 02/14/2022 03:08 pmQuote from: Conexion Espacial on 02/14/2022 02:58 pmSpaceFlightNow has provided some details:- Launch in November- The EVA will be with two astronauts.https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/14/billionaire-plans-three-more-flights-with-spacex-culminating-in-starship-mission/It also mentions that the entire capsule will be depressurized, so the other two crew will wear the IVA suits and remain inside. So there won't be an EVA airlock that replaces the cupola/hatch, it seems.How would you get out of the capsule if the cupola is there? Through the door? David Naggy speculated on Twitter that there might be a third type of attachment with a door for EVA purposes.Obviously there will be an EVA hatch instead of a cupola on this flight, sorry for the poor phrasing. We already know that a dragon can be equipped with either 1) a docking hatch, or 2) a cupola. I was just wondering if the 3rd option might have been an EVA hatch or some sort of EVA airlock (maybe inflatable). But it appears to be an EVA hatch.EDIT: Another neat option might have been an airlock module in the trunk (attached to the 2nd stage for stability?), so just like an Apollo mission the Dragon would rotate and dock with it. But the mass of such an airlock module would preclude them from a higher LEO orbit.Obviously, there wouldn't be a cupola. Just depressurize the capsule and open the forward hatch. There is no special EVA hatch. The image shows someone in what looks like an IVA suit with an umbilical, so there would be no airlock.i have an idea we can create an airlock in the forward hatch. i mean to say that the cupola had supported 2 persons at a time we can shield the interior after a person with eva suit goes into airlock. then open the cupola from divider like this in sealed hatch.(nessesarily not a glass cupola needed). but in this manner only one eva person at a time. put someone in cupola, seal inner hatch open cupola, do eva , return back close cupola, open inner hatch, his eva complete. in this mode we only need a single eva sute for whole crewthey will ride in ivas use eva suit turn by turn. i see this eva from cupola is the best option for crew dragon. and no harm to live support system inside the dragon. btw in this case you only need to pressurize depressurize the cupola section only and if one by one eva is bad worth to note that there are 4 persons for 5 days, one will do eva for nominal 6 hours a day. and the cupola will open and close once a day. from my point in this way you can do an eva on free flier dragon easily, sans the cupola must be air tight not leaking as dragon has faced a leaking toilet and zvezda iss control service module is leaking now also so minimal requirement.may spacex implement this idea
Quote from: Dalhousie on 02/15/2022 01:34 amKeep in mind that and EVA using a modified IVA suit is little more than a stunt with limited value other than dragging rights.Apollo's suit was capable of IVA, EVA, and lunar surface. CXP Orion was originally supposed to do the same. There are advantages to having separate EVA and IVA when there is enough volume for both(Shuttle, ISS) but doing an EVA with a suit that can also perform the role of IVA can be useful.
Keep in mind that and EVA using a modified IVA suit is little more than a stunt with limited value other than dragging rights.
SpaceX and Isaacman aren't just pushing the envelope. They're positively running it through the paper shredder!
Quote from: Oersted on 02/14/2022 10:20 pmSpaceX and Isaacman aren't just pushing the envelope. They're positively running it through the paper shredder!Hardly pushing the envelope
Quote from: Dalhousie on 02/21/2022 07:13 amQuote from: Oersted on 02/14/2022 10:20 pmSpaceX and Isaacman aren't just pushing the envelope. They're positively running it through the paper shredder!Hardly pushing the envelopeWrong. No private entity - as in a non-government spaceflight organization - has ever performed an EVA. Let alone develop the means to carry out said EVA.It is not so much pushing the envelope in a technical sense. But it is pushing the envelope in the sense of development and expansion of commercial spaceflight capabilities and operations.
