Reentry - Eric Berger SpaceX F9 book (24 Sep 2024)

[woods170]

To add what other have posted, I love these stories so far, but I really wanted more technical info, especially on the first stage reentry and reuse.  It is something that engineers have wanted to do for decades and SpaceX figured it out.   

Yes, a private company figured it out. The knowledge is proprietary. Which is exactly why there's little to none technical info about it in in Berger's book. He's simply not allowed to reveal "the trade secrets", so to speak. Remember, the "Reentry" manuscript was vetted by the SpaceX legal department before Berger got the "GO" to get it published.

[yg1968]

Two-thirds through and I have read with great interest all the stories about crises and near-disasters. Really brings it home how it takes real human beings stressed witless and suffering immensely to accomplish great things.

Unfortunately I have to say that I miss a lot of technical info about the groundbreaking actual work that it took to make the wonder that is Falcon 9. The technical side is very reduced and very dumbed-down. Berger clearly aimed at a general audience, hoping for big sales, but I think he shouldn't think so little of the capacity for understanding (and being fascinated by) technical stuff by the general reader.

There is basically nothing about Blackmore's guidance work, nothing about the landing legs, not much about the intricacies of Merlin development. I really bought the book hoping for that. Instead there is a lot, really a lot, about people working long days and burning out. It gets a bit samey after a while. Clearly Berger had a lot of access to those SpaceX'ers. I guess the present-day staff is too busy building rockets.

Maybe Berger just understands his audience better, but I think we deserve much more info about what actually makes Falcon 9 great, and why it has broken old paradigms so effectively.

If the Off Nominal interview [54:20], Eric mentioned some of the topics he had to cut (e.g Dragon XL, Red Dragon, 2nd Grasshopper program, etc) so that it didn't become a 600 page book (Reentry is already longer than Liftoff at 384 pages vs 288 pages).

Reading on Dragon XL would have been interesting.

[DanClemmensen]

I did not know that much about SpaceX' history until I read this book. It was clear that Berger had a great deal of interaction with SpaceX people and with Elon. The major take-away is that SpaceX succeeded because of Elon Musk's vision, drive, and willingness to make risky decisions, and his driving vision really was to take humanity to Mars. He was also charismatic and was able to attract and motivate a large number of brilliant people. He turned SpaceX into an unstoppable powerhouse. This was all true until we get to Berger's epilog.

In the brief epilog, Berger raises serious concerns about Musk's current non-SpaceX distractions, which are apparently pulling him away from focus on the vision. The most obvious example is his acquisition of X and the events surrounding it. Berger is clearly concerned that SpaceX may suffer from this, perhaps a lot.  I found this very disturbing, especially since it my impressions as an outside casual observer.

[thespacecow]

In the brief epilog, Berger raises serious concerns about Musk's current non-SpaceX distractions, which are apparently pulling him away from focus on the vision. The most obvious example is his acquisition of X and the events surrounding it. Berger is clearly concerned that SpaceX may suffer from this, perhaps a lot.  I found this very disturbing, especially since it my impressions as an outside casual observer.

This is just his partisan bias showing.

"Elon is distracted" is hardly a new narrative, it's been argued many times in the past, for example this one is from 2018 wrt Tesla:

“[Musk is] clearly a genius. I would compare him to the Thomas Edison of our time,” Nelson said. “That said, he’s very distracted at a point where he really needs to be completely focused on operational execution and delivering on the Model 3 targets. Instead, he’s appearing on podcasts, he’s tweeting, he’s spending a lot of time on SpaceX when arguably they’re probably at the company’s most critical juncture in terms of operational execution right now.”

It turns out Tesla did pretty well even when he's "distracted", so I wouldn't worry about this for SpaceX either.

[catdlr]

Eric Berger--Senior Space Editor at Ars Technica and author of "Liftoff" and "Reentry," two books about Musk and SpaceX-  discusses his books on this talk show.

[Coastal Ron]

In the brief epilog, Berger raises serious concerns about Musk's current non-SpaceX distractions, which are apparently pulling him away from focus on the vision. The most obvious example is his acquisition of X and the events surrounding it. Berger is clearly concerned that SpaceX may suffer from this, perhaps a lot.  I found this very disturbing, especially since it my impressions as an outside casual observer.

This is just his partisan bias showing.

Berger is trusted by Musk, and I've seen no evidence that he has a bias.

Oh, and BTW, it is easy to call someone "biased" without evidence. Even fashionable these days. That doesn't mean you are right. Please provide proof of some kind to back up your allegations if you truly believe them.

"Elon is distracted" is hardly a new narrative, it's been argued many times in the past...
...
It turns out Tesla did pretty well even when he's "distracted", so I wouldn't worry about this for SpaceX either.

I'm a Tesla owner, and Musk has been claiming that Full Self Driving (FSD) would be available by 2018. Tesla just made a big software change, which I haven't had time to try, but prior to October of this year FSD was not trustworthy. Right or wrong, the CEO of a company is responsible for not keeping their promises, and many people have been confused as to why Musk keeps promising FSD when it clearly hasn't been close to arriving.

Tesla FSD is a great example to me of Elon Musk not paying enough attention to Tesla, especially when you look at the long length of time it is taking for product updates to the Model 3 and Model Y.

The nature of distraction at the top of a company, any company, is that the side effects of that distraction take years to show up, and then they take years to correct. There are actually lots of medical studies that show people are not able to multitask, which means that for every new task or responsibility that Musk takes on, that is less time for everything else that he does. For SpaceX he has a good management team, but as CEO, Chair & CTO, something has to suffer.

Imagine if Elon Musk spent 100% of his working day on SpaceX? What would that look like?

[thespacecow]

In the brief epilog, Berger raises serious concerns about Musk's current non-SpaceX distractions, which are apparently pulling him away from focus on the vision. The most obvious example is his acquisition of X and the events surrounding it. Berger is clearly concerned that SpaceX may suffer from this, perhaps a lot.  I found this very disturbing, especially since it my impressions as an outside casual observer.

This is just his partisan bias showing.

Berger is trusted by Musk, and I've seen no evidence that he has a bias.

I see no evidence that he's "trusted" by Musk, Musk agrees with him on his takes on US space program, that's all. It's pretty clear the two has vastly different takes on politics.

Oh, and BTW, it is easy to call someone "biased" without evidence. Even fashionable these days. That doesn't mean you are right. Please provide proof of some kind to back up your allegations if you truly believe them.

Berger himself admitted on reddit that he strongly disagrees with what Musk is doing since 2020, and this caused him to stop writing this book for while. Reading between the lines, he basically wrote his feelings into the epilogue, this is of course going to be biased given it's political.

"Elon is distracted" is hardly a new narrative, it's been argued many times in the past...
...
It turns out Tesla did pretty well even when he's "distracted", so I wouldn't worry about this for SpaceX either.

Tesla FSD is a great example to me of Elon Musk not paying enough attention to Tesla, especially when you look at the long length of time it is taking for product updates to the Model 3 and Model Y.

No, it just means FSD is really really hard, which coupled with Elon's usual super optimistic schedule estimate resulted in fairly long delays. It's disingenuous to use this as proof that Elon is distracted, especially on a spaceflight forum, where every program - be it government or private - is delayed for years.

[Coastal Ron]

In the brief epilog, Berger raises serious concerns about Musk's current non-SpaceX distractions, which are apparently pulling him away from focus on the vision. The most obvious example is his acquisition of X and the events surrounding it. Berger is clearly concerned that SpaceX may suffer from this, perhaps a lot.  I found this very disturbing, especially since it my impressions as an outside casual observer.

This is just his partisan bias showing.

Berger is trusted by Musk, and I've seen no evidence that he has a bias.

I see no evidence that he's "trusted" by Musk...

I think this 2021 article shows how Musk trusted Eric Berger:

Eric Berger, a soft-spoken Ars Technica journalist, meteorologist, and lover of all things space-related, has spent a lot of time with Elon Musk during the past few years. While watching the billionaire SpaceX founder closely as he sat in on board meetings and gathering with his family on flights to Texas...

If that isn't trust, I don't know what it is...

Musk agrees with him on his takes on US space program, that's all. It's pretty clear the two has vastly different takes on politics.

I don't know what you think the definition of the word "biased" is, but you don't have to agree 100% with someone to dispassionately (and professionally) evaluate what they are doing in one aspect of their life.

"Elon is distracted" is hardly a new narrative, it's been argued many times in the past...
...
It turns out Tesla did pretty well even when he's "distracted", so I wouldn't worry about this for SpaceX either.

Tesla FSD is a great example to me of Elon Musk not paying enough attention to Tesla, especially when you look at the long length of time it is taking for product updates to the Model 3 and Model Y.

No, it just means FSD is really really hard, which coupled with Elon's usual super optimistic schedule estimate resulted in fairly long delays.

As a Tesla Model Y owner, I disagree. Luckily I never paid for FSD, but for those that did Musk has not been paying enough attention to this issue. And again, Musk can't multitask his way through being the leader of so many companies, AND take some sort of position or job with the Trump II Administration - he will have to spend less time on all of his companies in order to spend time on whatever Trump assigns him.

It's disingenuous to use this as proof that Elon is distracted...

Let's try it this way, prove he is NOT distracted.

[catdlr]

another interview, this time with Fraser Cain

Can Anybody Stop SpaceX Now? (with Eric Berger)

Nov 19, 2024

📖 Eric Berger's New Book "Reentry: SpaceX, Elon Musk, and the Reusable Rockets that Launched a Second Space Age"
 


Will SpaceX be able to deliver Starship in time for Artemis? Will Elon and Donald cancel SLS and replace it with Falcon Heavy? Is there any chance for real competition with SpaceX? How serious is the space race with China? Finding out the answers in this interview. 

🟣 Guest: Eric Berger
https://arstechnica.com/author/ericbe...


00:00 Intro
01:12 Reentry and the rise of SpaceX
10:24 What happens to SLS
20:17 The state of Starship
30:45 Blue Origin and other competition
35:29 Space race with China
42:11 Questions from the Patreon Community
53:22 Current obsessions
55:11 Final thoughts

[thespacecow]

In the brief epilog, Berger raises serious concerns about Musk's current non-SpaceX distractions, which are apparently pulling him away from focus on the vision. The most obvious example is his acquisition of X and the events surrounding it. Berger is clearly concerned that SpaceX may suffer from this, perhaps a lot.  I found this very disturbing, especially since it my impressions as an outside casual observer.

This is just his partisan bias showing.

Berger is trusted by Musk, and I've seen no evidence that he has a bias.

I see no evidence that he's "trusted" by Musk...

I think this 2021 article shows how Musk trusted Eric Berger:

Eric Berger, a soft-spoken Ars Technica journalist, meteorologist, and lover of all things space-related, has spent a lot of time with Elon Musk during the past few years. While watching the billionaire SpaceX founder closely as he sat in on board meetings and gathering with his family on flights to Texas...

If that isn't trust, I don't know what it is...

That was years ago, and Berger said recently that Elon unfollowed him twice on twitter, and he hasn't had good access to Elon in the past 2 years. So no, even if there was trust, it's gone now.

Musk agrees with him on his takes on US space program, that's all. It's pretty clear the two has vastly different takes on politics.

I don't know what you think the definition of the word "biased" is, but you don't have to agree 100% with someone to dispassionately (and professionally) evaluate what they are doing in one aspect of their life.

When he had to stop writing his book due to his disagreement with Elon, it's pretty clear that he can no longer be "dispassionate (and professional)".

"Elon is distracted" is hardly a new narrative, it's been argued many times in the past...
...
It turns out Tesla did pretty well even when he's "distracted", so I wouldn't worry about this for SpaceX either.

Tesla FSD is a great example to me of Elon Musk not paying enough attention to Tesla, especially when you look at the long length of time it is taking for product updates to the Model 3 and Model Y.

No, it just means FSD is really really hard, which coupled with Elon's usual super optimistic schedule estimate resulted in fairly long delays.

As a Tesla Model Y owner, I disagree. Luckily I never paid for FSD, but for those that did Musk has not been paying enough attention to this issue. And again, Musk can't multitask his way through being the leader of so many companies, AND take some sort of position or job with the Trump II Administration - he will have to spend less time on all of his companies in order to spend time on whatever Trump assigns him.

There's nothing here, you're just going in circles, "he's distracted because I said he's distracted".

Prove he's distracted.

It's disingenuous to use this as proof that Elon is distracted...

Let's try it this way, prove he is NOT distracted.

That's easy, his companies' achievements speak for themselves. Tesla is a trillion dollar profitable EV company with $33B of cash, Model Y is the best selling car in the world, CyberTruck is the best selling EV pickup in the US, they're also making rapid progress on FSD, Optimus and various other things. Neuralink has a successful human trial and is starting to do more trials, xAI just built a 100k H100 cluster in 122 days, etc.

I don't think I need to explain how excellent and dominant SpaceX is.

[JAFO]

Berger sitting in on board meetings and on the family jet could also be read as a man hiring his own historian.


Who was it that said something along the lines of “I know history will treat me well, because I will write the history.”? Trust is one thing, but before Eric got into those board meetings or onto that jet I’m sure the NDAs he was required to sign were very detailed and very restrictive, and there was always the balance of writing the truth vs having access cut off.



It’s been funny talking with some friends about Elon did this or Elon did that. Incorrect. The ENGINEERS did this or that, Elon supplied both the whip and the carrot. Freakin’ amazing, I’m glad I lived to see it.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1861099211053314222

Thrilled to find that the @TheEconomist named Reentry one of its best books of 2024.

https://www.economist.com/culture/2024/11/22/the-best-books-of-2024-as-chosen-by-the-economist