The Orville: New Horizons (Season 3)

[Steve G]

There are no plans for a Season Four. Seth McFarlane will be focusing on other projects.

[Blackstar]

My biggest disappointment on Orville this season is that they seem to have had a fat budget handed to them and it almost feels like they didn't quite know how to use it. It all feels somehow... rough, unpolished... it is like they lost some of their "mojo" during the long break between second and third season.

I'd have to rewatch season 2 to see if the quality of the stories has improved or suffered, but I tend to agree with you that it seems a bit unpolished. A number of episodes this season have been good, but seemed like they could have been better with another writing pass. I think that the pandemic may explain that. The writers did everything by Zoom and that hurts communications and creativity. I can imagine a situation where they all looked at a script and the showrunner asked "What do you think?" and everybody said "It's okay." Whereas if they had been in the room together, they might have indicated with facial expressions that it wasn't quite okay and could be better. So it went ahead, but it was missing a little extra something. Dealing with the pandemic has been difficult, and it was hard for them to even film anything at all. But it just seems like these stories could have been a bit better.

The most recent episode is a good case study. Why did they have so many sub-plots? They very easily could have completely eliminated the one involving the security chief and engineer, because it added nothing to the main story. Similarly, the resolution to the negotiation story was a little weak. A bit more attention, and this could have been a better episode.

[Blackstar]

I went to The Orville panel at San Diego Comic Con today, because that's how I roll. When asked about a fourth season, Seth McFarlane said that he is willing, but that no decision has been made by Hulu and he does not expect any decision to be made until sometime after the third season has aired. He says he has no insight into viewing numbers, so he does not know how well it is doing. He also said that it is moving to Disney+, which will expose it to more potential viewers.

He also referred to a graphic novel story that he has written that he would like to turn into an episode, but he thinks it may be too mind-bending and difficult to film. I did not hear the name of it, but it must be public.

[CameronD]

We watched the latest episode "Midnight Blue" last night. Unlike previous episodes, it seemed a little pointless to me.  Perhaps just a gap filler to bring the under-current storyline back on course??
 

[spacenut]

Orville could be much better if they cut a lot of the touchy-feely stuff out and did some space exploration. 

[CameronD]

Orville could be much better if they cut a lot of the touchy-feely stuff out and did some space exploration.

I kinda like the current format precisely because it allows them to tackle a lot of touchy subjects (divorce, death, suicide, homophobia, racism, etc) in a way that is thought-provoking without otherwise being seriously in your face.

Space exploration has been done before by everyone else (Star Trek).

[Blackstar]

Space exploration has been done before by everyone else (Star Trek).

Yeah, but Star Trek never did social issues.





(Note: sarcasm)

[Blackstar]

We watched the latest episode "Midnight Blue" last night. Unlike previous episodes, it seemed a little pointless to me.  Perhaps just a gap filler to bring the under-current storyline back on course??
 

Huh? I don't really understand how you can write that. For starters, it reconciled Topa with her father Klyden, and Bortas and Klyden. It also resulted in a major rift with the Union and the Moclan government, something that has been brewing for a long time. Note that the previous episode had the Union approaching another potential ally that had the same problem as Moclan society. So that episode presaged the issues that came to the fore in this one. And finally, the rift between the Union and the Moclan government leaves the Union even weaker than before (when it lost another ally). That puts the Union in even greater danger from the Kalons. So far from being pointless, it was actually pivotal to set up the season finale.

Oh, there was also that whole female rights thing.

[CameronD]

Well, since you put it that way..  I guess I wasn't watching closely enough. 

[Blackstar]

At SDCC they showed some footage from the last two episodes. Without giving any spoilers, I'll say that there is at least one big battle coming, and some of the big plot points are coming together.

[Blackstar]

We had another episode--second last for this season.






Spoilers









Yeah, spoilers.







You have been warned...








We started off with the obvious result of what we saw in the previous episodes: after the Krill have gone all MKGA, and the Moclans have been kicked out of the Union, the Krill and the Moclans have now formed an alliance so that they can defend themselves from the Kaylons. But before they can do that, it turns out that the Union has created a superweapon that can wipe out lots and lots of Kaylons.

I'd have to rewatch some episodes, but was there any mention of this superweapon before? It seems like it just suddenly appeared in this episode--Ho! Ho! Ho! Now I have an atomic bomb!

So the Union's superweapon destroys a lot of Kaylon ships and it is mentioned that if it is attached to an even bigger power source, it can wipe out every Kaylon in the galaxy. (Hint! Hint!) But some people in the Union are reluctant to do this.

The Orville then goes to the Kaylon homeworld and gets them to surrender. But the Kaylons--proving that just because they are highly logical robots, they are not very good poker players--announce that they will find a weakness in the superweapon and then go back to killing life forms again. The Union guys say they are okay with that. Then there's some singing in a bucolic cabin in the woods and everybody says how happy they are that things are peaceful again. Yep, peace. No worries. Everything is wonderful!

And then, suddenly, the superweapon gets stolen, and turned over to the Krill/Moclan alliance. The person who stole it was the owner of a Boston bar. He believes that it needs to be used to wipe out the Kaylons, not negotiate with them. He announces that he will then surrender himself to the authorities for what he has done. And then he gets killed. (Funny how when you choose to cooperate with your blood-thirsty untrustworthy enemies they stab you in the back.)

The Moclans have an Oppenheimer who they use to enhance the power of the weapon by hooking it up to some really huge glowing ball of energy. The Union forms an alliance with the Kaylons. They team up to go "retrieve" the superweapon. Now this seems like a pretty dubious plan. After all, won't the Kaylons just blow up the superweapon and then go back to attacking the Union? It would be ridiculous to allow the Union to retrieve the weapon.

Lots of fighting ensues. Some punching and kicking, and lots of little fighters zipping around the atmosphere. And a lot of capital ships zooming and blowing each other up. There were four scenes all playing out simultaneously--the Orville's first officer fighting with the Krill president (who doesn't seem to know how to delegate and instead decides to engage in hand-to-hand combat herself), the fighters zooming over the research complex, the assault team in the superweapon chamber, and the capital ship battle in orbit.

Now this is a classic case where more is less. They really went overboard with all the battles. It's just too much to watch, and it went on too long. When there is so much happening on the screen you cannot keep track of it and that is less effective than focusing on just a few ships. I was reminded of the space battles in Battlestar Galactica, which were much easier to follow and understand, and therefore more tense. If they had eliminated the space fighter scenes, which accomplished nothing, and reduced the orbital battle to something that was more easily understandable, I think the final act would have been better.

It turns out that the superweapon cannot really be turned off or removed from its power source. Because: reasons. So Charly then decides she has to overload the weapon and blow it up. Because: more reasons. And she can't just flip the switch and run, but has to stay there and sacrifice herself. Because: well, even more reasons. So that's what happens. Everybody runs--but not before there is a long, thoughtful look from the Kaylon leader--and the weapon blows up in a really cool effect that can be seen from space.

Charly dies.

Now I'll pause here to note that apparently the actress who played Charly was dating Seth McFarlane. She's now off the show. And I'll note that another young actress who was in the first season (who had the same fresh-faced blandly beautiful look as the other actress) was also dating Seth McFarlane, and she was also off the show. It seems like if "The Orville" had a functioning HR department somebody might note that having the multi-millionaire CEO of the company date his young female employees and then fire them after a season is not exactly ethical. But I assume that both actresses got nice severance packages, promises of guest roles on a few other shows, and a year's supply of Turtle Wax when they departed "The Orville." Hollywood is a progressive place.

The final scene is a memorial service for Charly. She's gone. Boo hoo. Oh, the Kaylons have also been moved by her sacrifice to save them and agreed to an alliance with the Union. Captain Ed talks to the Krill leader and pleads for their daughter, but that goes nowhere.

I'm not sure where they are going with the final episode this season. There's still the Krill/Moclan alliance that the Union has to deal with. Are those guys ready to take on the Union? There was something odd about how the Moclan Oppenheimer looked at the people in the assault team and was allowed to escape. Maybe he's going to show up in the final episode? I'll watch next week to find out.

Overall, this was a pretty good episode, although it felt like they were trying to jam way too much plot and way too much action into the hour (total running time, minus the commercials, is a little over 60 minutes). This is a problem that I think a lot of movies and some TV shows have today, where they try to do too much rather than streamline the story to focus on the essentials. And there were a bunch of standard Hollywood tropes, like the Krill president--who runs a government and a military--engaging in hand-to-hand combat in a hallway rather than sending her security guards to do that.

Ah Charly... we'll miss you. (No we won't.)

[Blackstar]

So, the season (and maybe series?) finale appeared on Hulu today. A short commentary, maybe followed by a longer one later.







Spoilers







Yeah, spoilers.






You have been warned.







Okay, not a lot of spoilers. This was not really an eventful episode. They seem to have crammed a lot of story into last week's episode, and I expected that they would have some more story to wrap up this episode (mainly the Moclans and Krill in their alliance), but there was nothing.

There were two stories in this episode. One story was about Isaac proposing to the doctor, and then the various hiccups that occur as they plan the wedding. I don't think there was much depth to this story. It was cute and funny, but it doesn't affect the overall storyline of the show (i.e. the Union, or the ship). I did like how Isaac ended up inviting the entire Kaylon race and 4000 ships showed up for the ceremony. And there was a clever line there where Captain Ed said that they should let the Union know, just in case that looked like an invasion or something.

The second story was a bit more weighty, but also sort of like one big long exposition story, where the writers wanted to explain something in the show and decided to use 30 minutes of screen time to do so. In this case, there's a rather contrived and confusing initial setup where the ship is going to a planet and then gets a call from a person on that planet that they previously interacted with. She is from a planet that is technologically and politically stunted and doesn't know that there are other intelligent civilizations in the galaxy. She previously stole a communications device and now she contacts the Orville and wants to be rescued. They pick her up. We don't see any of this, it's all dialogue, and I don't understand what the Orville was doing going to that planet anyway. As I said, it's contrived.

So she gets on the ship and asks for asylum and they grant it to her. Then over time she sees how much great stuff they have and she thinks it would be great if her own planet had this stuff. She then decides to go back to her planet. They are about to take her back and then they discover that she's brought a tricorder with her and it has all kinds of technology data, like how to build replicators and stuff. She wanted to help her people. This is a bad thing.

Her mentor on the Orville decides to show her why the Union does not share its technology with unready civilizations. She explains that a civilization has to be ready to use the technology and that the technology does not help them to become better. And that's about it. The woman decides to stay on the Orville.

This was basically a Prime Directive story--taking the Prime Directive from Star Trek and using it on The Orville and explaining why it is. It was a pretty good discussion of it, but I think there's more to be written on that, so I'll probably write it later.

Overall, this was a low-key episode, without any battles or phaser shooting or punching or anything like that. There was singing, however. I get the sense that Seth McFarlane figured that if this turns out to be the last episode of the series, then it should end on a pleasant note and not a cliffhanger.

[CameronD]

So, the season (and maybe series?) finale appeared on Hulu today. A short commentary, maybe followed by a longer one later.

Thanks for posting, Blackstar.  It's a shame it's all coming to an end (most likely) although Seth Macfarlane was quoted as saying they'd all be open to doing a "movie length feature" if there was enough interest, so we'll see what happens. 

As good as Orville has been, like Firefly sometimes it's better to move on...

[Blackstar]

Thanks for posting, Blackstar.  It's a shame it's all coming to an end (most likely) although Seth Macfarlane was quoted as saying they'd all be open to doing a "movie length feature" if there was enough interest, so we'll see what happens. 

At San Diego Comic Con he said he was open to doing another season if Hulu asked for it.

[Jeff Lerner]

I’ve been following this thread but not watching the show…I watched the first three episodes of season 1 when the show started and did not like it.

It seemed like a non cartoon Family Guy in Space to me….lots of low brow humour, goofy characters , poor special effects and Seth MacFarlane who cracks me up but SF ??…nah…

But in reading this thread it’s almost like it’s a different show…gotten more serious (?), and better if you like less comedic, more SF oriented TV ??

Am I right ..??

[Blackstar]

I’ve been following this thread but not watching the show…I watched the first three episodes of season 1 when the show started and did not like it.

It seemed like a non cartoon Family Guy in Space to me….lots of low brow humour, goofy characters , poor special effects and Seth MacFarlane who cracks me up but SF ??…nah…

But in reading this thread it’s almost like it’s a different show…gotten more serious (?), and better if you like less comedic, more SF oriented TV ??

Am I right ..??

Yes. The first episode of the first season was heavy on the jokes. They backed down a bit for the rest of the episodes of season 1, but still many jokes. By the second season there was still humor, but not outright jokes. Much more serious. By the third season there's very little humor, although it is still there, just mostly subsumed into the characters rather than them acting it out. And in fact there was a pretty good joke in this finale episode--a character is ranting about something, then a sandwich suddenly appears in front of him and he's happy about it (it's the payoff to a plot point several episodes ago). He wanders off happy, and one of the other characters mutters about how crazy his workplace is and struts off. It was a perfectly crafted scene where they set up an absurd situation, and then somebody commented about how absurd it was. Funny, but not a joke in the traditional sense. If you watched the show this season, it's a near-perfect joke.

The show is essentially the eighth season of "Star Trek: The Next Generation." Clearly that's what it is trying to be in its intent, and it mostly achieves that. So if that's what you want with your science fiction, intelligent but not mentally, morally, or emotionally challenging, then it delivers. The problem is that sci-fi has evolved beyond that in the past three decades. Other shows have really pushed into new boundaries. They added serialized storytelling ("Babylon 5," "Deep Space Nine"), anti-hero characters ("Firefly"), and tough social issues and moral dilemmas ("Battlestar Galactica"). So "The Orville" is in many ways a big step backward, but with very high production values.

[CameronD]

The show is essentially the eighth season of "Star Trek: The Next Generation." Clearly that's what it is trying to be in its intent, and it mostly achieves that. So if that's what you want with your science fiction, intelligent but not mentally, morally, or emotionally challenging, then it delivers. The problem is that sci-fi has evolved beyond that in the past three decades. Other shows have really pushed into new boundaries. They added serialized storytelling ("Babylon 5," "Deep Space Nine"), anti-hero characters ("Firefly"), and tough social issues and moral dilemmas ("Battlestar Galactica"). So "The Orville" is in many ways a big step backward, but with very high production values.

..and a fanbase that, finding it mentally, morally, or emotionally challenging simply walking out their front door every morning, actually likes watching sci-fi the way it used to be. 

[Blackstar]

The show is essentially the eighth season of "Star Trek: The Next Generation." Clearly that's what it is trying to be in its intent, and it mostly achieves that. So if that's what you want with your science fiction, intelligent but not mentally, morally, or emotionally challenging, then it delivers. The problem is that sci-fi has evolved beyond that in the past three decades. Other shows have really pushed into new boundaries. They added serialized storytelling ("Babylon 5," "Deep Space Nine"), anti-hero characters ("Firefly"), and tough social issues and moral dilemmas ("Battlestar Galactica"). So "The Orville" is in many ways a big step backward, but with very high production values.

..and a fanbase that, finding it mentally, morally, or emotionally challenging simply walking out their front door every morning, actually likes watching sci-fi the way it used to be. 

People can like what they like and watch what they watch. I'm just saying that it's not a show that is trying to break new ground or do new things. I'm not the first person to note this. The reviews when the show debuted back in 2017 often said the same thing.

Shows like Battlestar Galactica were hard to watch. They required a lot of attention and investment (I think the industry uses the term "lean in" watching now). We don't all want that, not all the time, and sometimes not at all. But even setting that aside, you can acknowledge that some shows are simply copying somebody else's formula rather than creating their own formula. And certainly The Orville has taken on some weighty social issues. Their stories about the Moclans and Topa are an obvious analogy for transgender issues. It was perhaps a bit heavy-handed, but that's a subject where being heavy-handed might have a better payoff than being subtle. Still, it's the same kind of episode that TNG would have done if TNG was still on today. The format, premise, and overall approach of the show is not original or ground-breaking.

[Blackstar]

https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/1556066761123831808

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/why-the-orville-new-horizons-season-4-needs-to-happen/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/seth-macfarlane-orvilles-season-4-210045720.html

[Blackstar]

So she gets on the ship and asks for asylum and they grant it to her. Then over time she sees how much great stuff they have and she thinks it would be great if her own planet had this stuff. She then decides to go back to her planet. They are about to take her back and then they discover that she's brought a tricorder with her and it has all kinds of technology data, like how to build replicators and stuff. She wanted to help her people. This is a bad thing.

Her mentor on the Orville decides to show her why the Union does not share its technology with unready civilizations. She explains that a civilization has to be ready to use the technology and that the technology does not help them to become better. And that's about it. The woman decides to stay on the Orville.

This was basically a Prime Directive story--taking the Prime Directive from Star Trek and using it on The Orville and explaining why it is. It was a pretty good discussion of it, but I think there's more to be written on that, so I'll probably write it later.

Yeah, I'm replying to my earlier post. There was a bit more that I wanted to comment on about this.

When Star Trek created the Prime Directive, it was something that they did for one story but didn't really think about all that much. This created problems, because they then wrote episodes where the Enterprise goes to some planet, Kirk gets into a mess, and then in order to get out of the mess he violates the Prime Directive, again and again. That highlighted that the show should not have created the PD in the first place. Yeah, it's a logical thing to prevent Starfleet from playing god at every planet they encounter, but from a writing standpoint they probably should not have explicitly mentioned it. And then once they mentioned it, they should have created some rules and then tried to adhere to them. Otherwise, Kirk really should have gone to jail.

The Orville has their version of the Prime Directive and this episode sought to explain that better. It was a bit ham-fisted, shoving a character from the second season into the episode rather suddenly so that one of the characters on the ship could then spend a number of scenes explaining stuff to her. But I thought that what they did was intelligent, at least in terms of dialogue. We were told that the technology doesn't make things better, the people have to be better before they are ready for the technology. And we're shown an example where the Union did share their technology with a society that was not ready and it went very badly. So they have their reasons.

However, there is something that they didn't really explain, which is sort of key to their whole non-interference directive: when and how do they determine it is okay to make contact? Star Trek had a shortcut to this: if a race had created warp technology, then it was okay to contact them. That makes sense, because if they have warp drive, they're going to travel around the galaxy and eventually run into you, so it's okay for you to contact them. If the Union had that same rule, I did not hear it.

And if you think about it too much (I think about stuff too much), the logic starts to fall apart. Look at the Krill: they have advanced technology, and yet they're brutal and a threat. So it's not like a society evolves to a point where they can handle their technology responsibly. The premise is rather wobbly.

The other obvious problem--and Star Trek faced this too--is that other advanced races may not have the same attitude. So the Union won't interfere with a primitive planet, but somebody else might. What happens is the Krill go to a planet and give them all kinds of tech and really mess things up, and the Union has its hands-off policy? That planet could be even more messed-up, and it could become an ally (or slaves) to the Krill.

Yeah, it's just a TV show. But there's a risk when you start coming up with a premise like this and then stating it in an episode. It creates restrictions and contradictions that can cause problems for later episodes and for the logic of the created universe.