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Space-surfing on a payload fairing?
by
Solo
on 10 Oct, 2021 16:19
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I'm wondering if it would be remotely feasible to allow a stunt performer to rideshare on a F9 mission by donning a spacesuit and riding in a lightweight seat attached to a payload fairing. The fairing already makes a successful reentry & landing with a parachute. Does anyone know what kind of g-forces the fairing experiences on re-entry? What about high temperatures and buffeting from turbulence?
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#1
by
libra
on 10 Oct, 2021 16:26
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#2
by
Fireworking
on 10 Oct, 2021 16:35
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I'm wondering if it would be remotely feasible to allow a stunt performer to rideshare on a F9 mission by donning a spacesuit and riding in a lightweight seat attached to a payload fairing. The fairing already makes a successful reentry & landing with a parachute. Does anyone know what kind of g-forces the fairing experiences on re-entry? What about high temperatures and buffeting from turbulence?
Great concept, It sounds super fun, but I don't think that even if a stunt performer were to offer to pay for a flight, that SpaceX would even consider it for long. The fairings probably aren't perfectly sealed, so a pressure suit and oxygen tank would be required for the whole trip. Also, on Crew Dragon there is an abort system, but on a fairing there isn't. Also, a personal heat shield would probably also be necessary as the temperatures wrapping around the fairing probably get pretty hot.
Though, I must consider that this is SpaceX, so unexpected things can happen.
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#3
by
JCRM
on 10 Oct, 2021 16:38
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#4
by
Solo
on 10 Oct, 2021 16:55
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I don't think that even if a stunt performer were to offer to pay for a flight, that SpaceX would even consider it for long. The fairings probably aren't perfectly sealed, so a pressure suit and oxygen tank would be required for the whole trip. Also, on Crew Dragon there is an abort system, but on a fairing there isn't. Also, a personal heat shield would probably also be necessary as the temperatures wrapping around the fairing probably get pretty hot.
Though, I must consider that this is SpaceX, so unexpected things can happen.
You're probably right that they wouldn't be interested in the liability. My first question is about the technical feasibility/survivability. It might be that the fairing hits >10gs because it has low weight and large surface area, so it might decelerate rapidly when it hits atmosphere. I suspect that the turbulence & air temperature behind the fairing would actually be fairly moderate, again because the fairing is large so it should brake relatively high up where the atmosphere is thin. But it would be very interesting to find out what those conditions actually are. I would imagine SpaceX has at least data on the g-forces, but they may not have any instrumentation on the atmospheric environment.
BTW, I've always thought that doing a short suborbital hop on a sounding rocket in just a spacesuit, no capsule would be really fun, but even a launch like that is expensive, ~$1m. SpaceX has this
nifty calculator that estimates $1.5m for a 300kg rideshare, which is amazing b/c this is orbital, not suborbital.
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#5
by
Solo
on 10 Oct, 2021 16:58
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@JCRM:
that's the soundtrack for the mission, then! lol
This is what I was thinking of, though:
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#6
by
b.lorenz
on 10 Oct, 2021 17:08
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BTW, I've always thought that doing a short suborbital hop on a sounding rocket in just a spacesuit, no capsule would be really fun, but even a launch like that is expensive, ~$1m. SpaceX has this nifty calculator that estimates $1.5m for a 300kg rideshare, which is amazing b/c this is orbital, not suborbital.
Well, he launch is orbital, but the fairings are suborbital (though probably still a bigger hop than a typical sounding rocket or even New Shepard.)
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#7
by
Solo
on 10 Oct, 2021 17:12
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@b.lorenz Ahh, right, they jettison the fairing before the 2nd stage burn is completed, I forgot that.
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#8
by
Jim
on 10 Oct, 2021 23:57
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@b.lorenz Ahh, right, they jettison the fairing before the 2nd stage burn is completed, I forgot that.
the fairings are jettisoned right after second stage start
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#9
by
Zed_Noir
on 11 Oct, 2021 02:05
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Presuming the surfing reentry G-load is survivable. The only way that someone could be surfing down from orbit with a SpaceX fairing half is by a Starship (or something with a huge payload bay) bringing up both the surfboard and the surfer to LEO. In which case you could have several surfers riding down at the same time.
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#10
by
cdebuhr
on 11 Oct, 2021 02:12
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Presuming the surfing reentry G-load is survivable. The only way that someone could be surfing down from orbit with a SpaceX fairing half is by a Starship (or something with a huge payload bay) bringing up both the surfboard and the surfer to LEO. In which case you could have several surfers riding down at the same time.
I'm not sure what the fairings weigh, but I would guess it's
much less than maximum payload to orbit. Orbiting the fairing with a Falcon 9 shouldn't really be a big problem (unless there's a "gotcha" in there somewhere that I'm missing). But that only leads to probably a bigger problem ... Just because they survive re-entry after nominal fairing jettison, doesn't in any way guarantee they'd survive
orbital re-entry. Without doing any actual work to demonstrate the assertion, I
strongly suspect they'd be reduced to hot gas following orbital re-entry.
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#11
by
Redclaws
on 11 Oct, 2021 02:19
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I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but how much does a fairing half weigh? How much would the addition of a person and gear increase the weight and is it going to screw up the ballistic coefficient and/or stability enough to make it not work?
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#12
by
Zed_Noir
on 11 Oct, 2021 02:32
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I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but how much does a fairing half weigh? How much would the addition of a person and gear increase the weight and is it going to screw up the ballistic coefficient and/or stability enough to make it not work?
IIRC the standard SpaceX payload fairing half is about 1 tonne each according to Space Launch Report.
Since the surfboard is not a standard payload fairing. Presume there might be thermal protection systems along a flight control/navigation system bundled with a more robust RCS system and mobile ballast mass.
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#13
by
ZChris13
on 11 Oct, 2021 07:10
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The concept can be worked into something real but if you start optimizing it you end up with M.O.O.S.E.
There's no real need for the control obtainable by surfing, all it gets you is enough rope to hang yourself (fall off and burn up). Better to do offset center of mass with a more traditional capsule shape and rotate around that with a cold gas thruster to control lift. With the miniaturization of computers you could easily carry those avionics around on your suit.
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#14
by
edzieba
on 11 Oct, 2021 12:47
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By the time you've dealt with:
- Somewhere for the 'surfer' to sit/stand that can distribute structural loads to the rest of the fairing
- Adding mass for life-support during ascent and descent, and for GSE life support supply between whenever the surfer climbs into the fairing and launch.
- Dealing with stability (increased mass, possibly repositioned CoM, mass-shifts during flight if the surfer is not strapped immobile)
- Dealing with backside thermal protection for the surfer (fairings bathed in stage 2 MVac exhaust)
- Dealing with the payload volume constraints from having someone strapped to the inside of the fairing
- Dealing with the altered separation dynamics to avoid slapping the surfer into the payload or stage
You might as well have just left the fairings unmodified and added the surfer and a 'mini MOOSE' as a secondary payload that can be ejected after the fairings separate, possibly as part of a brief SECO - eject - relight sequence. Or a full-up MOOSE and separate and deorbit after a nominal SECO.
Methinks someone may have been watching that Metal Wolf cutscene too much. That said, I'd be up for a MOOSE ride if a slot were available.
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#15
by
CameronD
on 12 Oct, 2021 01:15
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By the time you've dealt with:
- Somewhere for the 'surfer' to sit/stand that can distribute structural loads to the rest of the fairing
- Adding mass for life-support during ascent and descent, and for GSE life support supply between whenever the surfer climbs into the fairing and launch.
- Dealing with stability (increased mass, possibly repositioned CoM, mass-shifts during flight if the surfer is not strapped immobile)
- Dealing with backside thermal protection for the surfer (fairings bathed in stage 2 MVac exhaust)
- Dealing with the payload volume constraints from having someone strapped to the inside of the fairing
- Dealing with the altered separation dynamics to avoid slapping the surfer into the payload or stage
You might as well have just left the fairings unmodified and added the surfer and a 'mini MOOSE' as a secondary payload that can be ejected after the fairings separate, possibly as part of a brief SECO - eject - relight sequence. Or a full-up MOOSE and separate and deorbit after a nominal SECO.
Methinks someone may have been watching that Metal Wolf cutscene too much. That said, I'd be up for a MOOSE ride if a slot were available.
Whatever way you go it seems the mass of the "rider" and all that life support you mention adds up to a crap-load of profitable smallsats that never get to orbit. Dunno what that would cost, but a free ride it sure isn't!
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#16
by
trimeta
on 12 Oct, 2021 02:38
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Whatever way you go it seems the mass of the "rider" and all that life support you mention adds up to a crap-load of profitable smallsats that never get to orbit. Dunno what that would cost, but a free ride it sure isn't!
Depends if that particular launch was mass-constrained or volume-constrained, and whether the rider took up a piece of real estate that couldn't otherwise have been used for smallsats (can't exactly bolt those to the fairing that gets ditched shortly after Second Engine Start).
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#17
by
Redclaws
on 12 Oct, 2021 03:47
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The concept can be worked into something real but if you start optimizing it you end up with M.O.O.S.E.
There's no real need for the control obtainable by surfing, all it gets you is enough rope to hang yourself (fall off and burn up). Better to do offset center of mass with a more traditional capsule shape and rotate around that with a cold gas thruster to control lift. With the miniaturization of computers you could easily carry those avionics around on your suit.
Just want to say:
God I love MOOSE 😂
Such a crazy idea. So glad it was real
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#18
by
Zed_Noir
on 12 Oct, 2021 04:11
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Folks surfing down from orbit could be the ultimate extreme sport. It is only slightly more wacky than solo round the world boat races.
By the time you've dealt with:
- Somewhere for the 'surfer' to sit/stand that can distribute structural loads to the rest of the fairing
- Adding mass for life-support during ascent and descent, and for GSE life support supply between whenever the surfer climbs into the fairing and launch.
- Dealing with stability (increased mass, possibly repositioned CoM, mass-shifts during flight if the surfer is not strapped immobile)
- Dealing with backside thermal protection for the surfer (fairings bathed in stage 2 MVac exhaust)
- Dealing with the payload volume constraints from having someone strapped to the inside of the fairing
- Dealing with the altered separation dynamics to avoid slapping the surfer into the payload or stage
<snip>
Whatever way you go it seems the mass of the "rider" and all that life support you mention adds up to a crap-load of profitable smallsats that never get to orbit. Dunno what that would cost, but a free ride it sure isn't!
Really don't see a regular SpaceX payload fairing being use for a surfboard on a Falcon 9 flight. More likely a modified Starship will bring up a stack of bespoke surfboards and their riders to LEO for the reentry surfing.
Think it should be possible to build an armored spacesuit to ride down from orbit on a surfboard. After all one would want to experience the reentry first hand for it to be enticing for the extreme sportsman. Alan Eustance did freefall from altitude of 135890 feet (41.41 km) in 2014.
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#19
by
zubenelgenubi
on 21 Apr, 2022 21:13
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Bill Shatner's James Kirk did it before Chris Pine's.
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#20
by
litton4
on 13 May, 2022 13:05
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It was in the end of the film "Dark Star", too.
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#21
by
SpeakertoAnimals
on 13 May, 2022 13:20
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It was in the end of the film "Dark Star", too.
This needs to be a scene in the movie Top Secret Too. Skeet space surfing.
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#22
by
punder
on 13 May, 2022 13:20
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It was in the end of the film "Dark Star", too.
I really need to watch that again. Amazing those guys went on to make Alien.
that's the soundtrack for the mission, then! lol
