-
#60 by Torten on 20 May, 2023 15:16
-
I wouldn't be surprised if VERITAS is cancelled and NASA ups their contribution to EnVision instead - frees up money and JPL resources for more important missions and contributing more to EnVision - even if that merely means more transmit time on the DSN might give them a degree of cover for what would be a very unpopular move.
-
#61 by redliox on 20 May, 2023 22:53
-
I wouldn't be surprised if VERITAS is cancelled and NASA ups their contribution to EnVision instead - frees up money and JPL resources for more important missions and contributing more to EnVision - even if that merely means more transmit time on the DSN might give them a degree of cover for what would be a very unpopular move.
I'd be disappointed, but merging the 2 missions into a sort-of-flagship does make a lil sense, although I presume you're referring more to a support capacity. Budgets allowing, I'd settle for NASA contributing a launch vehicle, one instrument, and the com support although naturally that's my opinion. 2 out of 3 Venus missions still an improvement over the years without Venusian science. -
#62 by vjkane on 21 May, 2023 00:02
-
I'd be disappointed, but merging the 2 missions into a sort-of-flagship does make a lil sense, although I presume you're referring more to a support capacity. Budgets allowing, I'd settle for NASA contributing a launch vehicle, one instrument, and the com support although naturally that's my opinion. 2 out of 3 Venus missions still an improvement over the years without Venusian science.
EnVision's instrument list is set. Perhaps there could be a tweak or two to an already selected instrument, but no merging of capabilities with VERITAS.
EnVision is limited in its data return and hence the total area to be mapped. Don't know the specific reasons why. Perhaps using the DSN in addition to ESA's antennas could allow more data return and more area mapped. However, other limitations such as onboard data storage or power for transmitting data could be the limiting factor. Lots of trades that are hard to understand without knowing details of the design.
-
#63 by Don2 on 27 May, 2023 10:08
-
VERITAS and Envision carry very different radars operating at different frequencies. VERITAS is an interferometric SAR, while Envision is a conventional SAR. I don't think there is any way to merge the two instruments.
The only other interferometric SAR I can think of is the Surface Water Ocean Topography (SWOT) mission which launched late last year. In March this mission released an image of Long Island. Water features stand out particularly well, and some highways also seem to be visible.
Attached image is from this press realease:
https://swot.jpl.nasa.gov/news/99/joint-nasa-cnes-water-tracking-satellite-reveals-first-stunning-views/
-
#64 by Don2 on 28 May, 2023 00:06
-
This quote from the 2018 Envision assessment study report a good summary of the differences between the missions:
"VERITAS is designed to enable global topographic mapping, so it is naturally complementary to EnVision’s strategy of regional observations using a broad range of synergistic techniques. Whereas VERITAS observations would provide foundational datasets important for comparative planetology, and support science studies requiring global coverage (e.g., obtaining a complete inventory of crater characteristics), EnVision’s multi-messenger geophysics strategy uses combinations of observations at wavelengths from UV to radio-frequency waves to study the coupling of different processes associated with geological activity.
If selected, EnVision would collect targeted high-resolution dual-polarization radar imagery (30 m for up to 30% of surface and 10 m for 2-3% of surface) and generate topographic data via radar stereo techniques (300 m spatial resolution with 30-50 m height accuracy) over these regions."
(VERITAS provides 5m height resolution topography at 250m spacing. It provides a 30m resolution global map, and 15m resolution for 25% of the planet)
I think VERITAS will be very good at finding active areas by comparing their global map with Magellan data. The flexible multi-mode radar on Envision can then follow up on those discoveries. I expect Envision will take considerably better images than VERITAS. There is more to SAR image quality than resolution as the following link explains.
https://www.geospatialworld.net/article/sar-imagery-and-quality-metrics/
With a very long extended mission Envision might eventually approach global coverage, but the topographic map will never be as good as VERITAS.
VERITAS will also measure the spin state of Venus, and those measurements can constrain the core size and the core and mantle composition, as the paper linked below explains.
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/PSJ/ac26c0
It should also be able to detect the recently discovered variations in the rotation rate of Venus.
VERITAS can lay a foundation on which Envision can build. It would be a real shame to lose it. -
#65 by vjkane on 03 Nov, 2023 19:34
-
I don't know if it will have any practical effect, but the just released House FY24 budget language includes this statement:
Venus Emissivity, Radio Science, InSAR, Topography, and Spectrometry
mission.—The Committee supports the Discovery Program,
including competitively selected missions such as the Venus
Emissivity, Radio Science, InSAR, Topography, and Spectrometry
(VERITAS) mission. The Committee recommends that NASA request
sufficient funding to ensure a launch by the end of the decade.
The Committee directs NASA to provide a budget profile to ensure
the mission can remain on track.
https://appropriations.house.gov/sites/republicans.appropriations.house.gov/files/FY24-CJS-Explanatory-Materials.pdf -
#66 by VSECOTSPE on 08 Nov, 2023 12:54
-
VERITAS Warns of Risk of Launch DelayQuoteThe head of a delayed NASA mission to Venus has warned that the project risks losing critical expertise if the agency doesn’t find a way to move up the mission…
She said an extended delay, as still planned by NASA, threatened the personnel available for VERITAS, particular for its SAR instrument being developed at JPL. “There’s insufficient radar work at JPL. The radar workforce is really at threat,” she said. “It’s a really big technical threat for us.”
She noted that while NASA has provided some funding for VERITAS to maintain its science team, there was “zero support for engineering development” for the mission. That has led some engineering staff assigned to the mission to seek other work at JPL.
“We are losing our key team members all the time,” she said. “Over the dozen years it took us to get selected we developed a highly experienced, knowledgeable team, and they have to go take other jobs.”
https://spacenews.com/veritas-mission-warns-of-risks-of-launch-delay/
-
#67 by Zed_Noir on 08 Nov, 2023 13:51
-
I don't know if it will have any practical effect, but the just released House FY24 budget language includes this statement:
What is not clear is that the appropriation committee can get the budget line amount to increase. AIUI geting funding for something in excess of a budget line usually meant something else in the budget line get short charged.
Venus Emissivity, Radio Science, InSAR, Topography, and Spectrometry
mission.—The Committee supports the Discovery Program,
including competitively selected missions such as the Venus
Emissivity, Radio Science, InSAR, Topography, and Spectrometry
(VERITAS) mission. The Committee recommends that NASA request
sufficient funding to ensure a launch by the end of the decade.
The Committee directs NASA to provide a budget profile to ensure
the mission can remain on track.
https://appropriations.house.gov/sites/republicans.appropriations.house.gov/files/FY24-CJS-Explanatory-Materials.pdf -
#68 by vjkane on 11 Mar, 2024 16:22
-
Just released FY25 budget proposal has these proposed changes for DAVINCI and VERITAS:
"This budget supports the VERITAS mission to launch during an available Venus opportunity in
2031-2032. NASA reduced the future Discovery and Planetary SmallSat budgets which will delay the
release of the next Discovery and SIMPLEx AOs to no earlier than FY 2026. This budget also delays the
DAVINCI mission launch from 2029 to an available Venus opportunity in the 2031-2032 timeframe."
Page PS-46
https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/nasa-fy-2025-congressional-justification.pdf?emrc=65ef360b75003 -
#69 by deadman1204 on 11 Mar, 2024 17:11
-
IF Veritas ever does happen, I wonder how it'll work. Isn't most the science team already gone and on other projects? They'll need to rebuild everyone from the ground up.
-
#70 by Athelstane on 11 Mar, 2024 17:31
-
IF Veritas ever does happen, I wonder how it'll work. Isn't most the science team already gone and on other projects? They'll need to rebuild everyone from the ground up.
That was my understanding, but any JPL peeps lurking here are certainly welcome to clarify how exactly it stands.
Otherwise, sadly, it strikes me as a kind of zombie program, stalking the halls of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory like the walking dead. -
#71 by Don2 on 11 Mar, 2024 18:04
-
IF Veritas ever does happen, I wonder how it'll work. Isn't most the science team already gone and on other projects? They'll need to rebuild everyone from the ground up.
The radar is similar to an Earth science probe called SWOT which launched last year. Also there is a another big JPL radar mission which is just about ready to launch. (NISAR) I think they are worried about losing their radar talent.