Author Topic: Dawn Aerospace  (Read 37192 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #80 on: 06/13/2023 07:19 am »
https://twitter.com/dawnaerospace/status/1668429947927670785

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Go Falcon, go D-Orbit, go Dawn! 🚀
Congratulations to D-Orbit on a successful launch aboard @SpaceX's Transporter8. We’re proud to supply the propulsion which will now take D-Orbit’s customers on to their operational orbit.
The number of Dawn thrusters in space is now 63!✨🛰

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #81 on: 07/03/2023 05:57 am »
https://www.dawnaerospace.com/latest-news/dawn-aerospace-has-promoted-johann-joubert-to-the-role-of-head-of-in-space-propulsion

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Dawn Aerospace has promoted Johann Joubert to the role of Head of In-Space Propulsion.

Dawn Aerospace has promoted Johann Joubert to the role of Head of In-Space Propulsion.

Dawn Aerospace, a space transportation company based in NZ, the Netherlands, and the United States, is on a mission to provide sustainable and scalable ways to access and move around in space. The company is the fastest growing supplier of green propulsion for satellites in the world and has an ever-growing amount of hardware in space having flown on Falcon 9, Soyuz and Vega rockets. Dawn is also building a spaceplane – a launch vehicle that combines the performance of a rocket with the rapid reusability and fleet economics of an aircraft.

Joubert joined Dawn with an impressive background in engineering and space. After several design engineer roles developing hardware and embedded systems in the mining & military industries in South Africa, he got his start in the space industry with Space Advisory Company as a technical advisor to companies building satellites. He went on to become the first South African employee of New Space Systems where he oversaw engineering and led the company’s growth for seven years.

Joubert joined Dawn in August last year as a Project Manager role but was recently promoted to the Head of In-Space Propulsion, a 50-person team that was, until recently, led by CEO, Stefan Powell.

Joubert said, “It’s great to be in a company that has a massive vision. We’re doing revolutionary things.  I’m excited to be leading a team that is disrupting the hydrazine space industry and enabling our clients to offer a complete solution rather than just saying here are the parts, away you go. I think it’s a massive game changer.”

Dawns’ systems use readily available fuels, nitrous oxide and propylene, which provide safer handling and huge cost savings compared to traditional hydrazine propulsion.

CEO, Stefan Powell said, “I’m super excited to have someone as experienced and capable as Johann to hand the reins to. It’s a key role. In-space propulsion is currently the financial backbone of Dawn. Johan impressed us with not only his technical knowledge but also his leadership skills.”

Dawn Aerospace also made headlines earlier this year when they flew their spaceplane technology demonstrator, the Mk-II Aurora, under rocket-power for the first time. 

Read more about Johann’s career journey here.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #82 on: 07/24/2023 05:56 am »
https://twitter.com/dawnaerospace/status/1683334332805681153

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Mk-II Aurora looking fine on the cover of @BIS_spaceflight magazine ✨
Pick up a copy of the August issue to read @Stefan__Powell's interview on the iterative process we’re taking to turn the long-held dream of a spaceplane into a reality 🚀

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #83 on: 09/20/2023 06:12 pm »
Dawn aren't the only startup developing spaceplanes.


Polaris from Germany are using similar development program to Dawn. Start with subscale technology demostrators before scaling up, adding rocket engine and  expanding flight envelope.

https://www.polaris-raumflugzeuge.de/Technology


https://www.space.com/polaris-spaceplanes-mira-light-flight-test-campaign-complete
« Last Edit: 09/20/2023 06:13 pm by TrevorMonty »

Online catdlr

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #84 on: 10/19/2023 03:18 am »


Quote

Oct 18, 2023
Dawn's manufacturing team welcomed a new 5-axis mill to the workshop in July!  This was another step in scaling up our production to meet growing customer demand for our in-space propulsion systems.
« Last Edit: 10/19/2023 03:18 am by catdlr »
It's Tony De La Rosa, ...I don't create this stuff, I just report it.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #85 on: 11/03/2023 05:41 pm »
Dawn aren't the only startup developing spaceplanes.

Polaris from Germany are using similar development program to Dawn. Start with subscale technology demostrators before scaling up, adding rocket engine and  expanding flight envelope.

https://www.polaris-raumflugzeuge.de/Technology

https://www.space.com/polaris-spaceplanes-mira-light-flight-test-campaign-complete
It'll be interesting to see how they cope with the Cp/Cg mismatch, just as Dawn and Venus will. If any of them get that far.

30 years after HOTOL people are still raising money for these sorts of designs and still not thinking that this is going to be a problem.  :(

I don't think I've seen a thread for Polaris. They do look nice. I'm reminded of the film "The Flight of the Phoenix"
[EDIT Ooops.  :) Didn't realise they are going for a pure rocket HTOL SSTO spaceplane without launch assist of some kind (what Boeing expected to make RASV viable, along with an uprated SSME of course).

That puts them in Radian territory, only worse.  :(

It'd be interesting to see how much thinking they have done about the structural mass and TPS they are going to need to slow from 7900m/s.

My guess is "not much." ]
« Last Edit: 11/03/2023 05:57 pm by john smith 19 »
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #86 on: 12/12/2023 03:31 am »


https://www.dawnaerospace.com/latest-news/dawn-aerospace-achieves-key-rocket-engine-milestonenbspnbsp

Quote
Dawn Aerospace achieves key rocket engine milestone

Dawn Aerospace has successfully completed a full-duration, bi-propellant test of the Mk-II Aurora spaceplane’s rocket engine. The Mk-IIA engine was fired for 112 seconds at their test facility in Christchurch, New Zealand. 

This engine will be fitted to the Mk-II Aurora, a subscale technology demonstrator for the Mk-III – Dawn’s two-stage to orbit solution for scalable and sustainable space access.   

The Mk-II Aurora has already completed 50 test flights, 47 with jet engines and 3 under rocket power in March 2023. Dawn’s propulsion team have been working on improvements in preparation for the next set of flight tests, set to take the vehicle to supersonic speeds and above 20km altitude in early 2024 to complete the test campaign of the Mk-IIA.   

The rocket engine utilizes HTP and kerosene as propellants, rather than the more commonly used liquid oxygen, due to their storability and deep throttling capabilities. These are crucial factors as Dawn builds towards having a global fleet of spaceplanes with aircraft-like operations. 

Ralph Huijsman, Lead Propulsion Engineer, commented: “While HTP is the right long-term choice for the spaceplane, it led to some interesting challenges in the development of the engine. The available information is extremely limited and is often outdated or walled off. This meant we ran into some fundamental challenges along the way that were difficult to engineer our way out of. That makes this achievement even more special. It is exciting to see everything come together and work flawlessly.” 

CEO of Dawn Aerospace, Stefan Powell said: “The team has put in significant work to reach this milestone. We're excited about our future flights where we’ll fly MUCH higher and faster than ever before.”

The next phase in the development roadmap for the Mk-IIA is to test critical aspects of operating the vehicle such as high-altitude operations and BVLOS flights (beyond visual line of sight). 

The Mk-IIB will incorporate all the learnings from the Mk-IIA to achieve an optimised vehicle for flights to 100 km. In doing so, it will be the first vehicle to fly to space twice in a day. 

The Mk-IIB will be a uniquely capable vehicle with commercial applications in atmospheric, microgravity, and high-speed flight research as well as earth observation.
« Last Edit: 12/12/2023 03:32 am by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #87 on: 12/13/2023 02:58 pm »
Ralph Huijsman, Lead Propulsion Engineer, commented: “While HTP is the right long-term choice for the spaceplane, it led to some interesting challenges in the development of the engine. The available information is extremely limited and is often outdated or walled off. This meant we ran into some fundamental challenges along the way that were difficult to engineer our way out of. That makes this achievement even more special. It is exciting to see everything come together and work flawlessly.” 
True.

Not the least of which will be the low Isp they'll have to work with in order to 2nd stage launch altitude and velocity.

This will make the structural mass available for vehicle (and the 2nd stage it's going to be carrying) even more challenging than with kerolox.  :(

Obviously not going for actual SSTO (even the assisted kind Radian are aiming for) helps but that low Isp (a poor jet is looking at Isp of 3000s, 450secs is the vac Isp of the SSME) really hurts structural fraction.

I'll wish them good luck.

And Merry Christmas to all.  :)
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #88 on: 12/13/2023 05:15 pm »
Ralph Huijsman, Lead Propulsion Engineer, commented: “While HTP is the right long-term choice for the spaceplane, it led to some interesting challenges in the development of the engine. The available information is extremely limited and is often outdated or walled off. This meant we ran into some fundamental challenges along the way that were difficult to engineer our way out of. That makes this achievement even more special. It is exciting to see everything come together and work flawlessly.” 
True.

Not the least of which will be the low Isp they'll have to work with in order to 2nd stage launch altitude and velocity.

This will make the structural mass available for vehicle (and the 2nd stage it's going to be carrying) even more challenging than with kerolox.  :(

Obviously not going for actual SSTO (even the assisted kind Radian are aiming for) helps but that low Isp (a poor jet is looking at Isp of 3000s, 450secs is the vac Isp of the SSME) really hurts structural fraction.

I'll wish them good luck.

And Merry Christmas to all.  :)

ISP isn't everything other wise everbody would be using hydrolox. There are operational considerations. Fuel delivery, storage and handling at remote airfields, not cheap or easy with LOX. HTP allows engine to run in lower thrust monopropellant mode, they use this for taxiing and inflight maneuvers, with bipropellant mode used for climb to space, watch the videos.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2023 05:17 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline Emmettvonbrown

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #89 on: 12/13/2023 05:29 pm »
Their initial target is sounding rockets science payloads, except recoverable and with the inner flexibility of an aircraft - "drone" might be the correct word. XCOR, Virgin, Blue Origin all chased the same payloads except - obviously - the P.I could fly along the payload.
And then - small satellites with an expendable upper stage. Admittedly, Rocketlab probably killed that market - well SpaceX F9 rideshares probably killed it for real.

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #90 on: 12/14/2023 06:31 pm »
And then - small satellites with an expendable upper stage. Admittedly, Rocketlab probably killed that market - well SpaceX F9 rideshares probably killed it for real.

If that market is dead (and I'm not convinced it is), an LV with a rapidly reusable first stage would be just the sort of thing that might be able to reopen it.
Wait, ∆V? This site will accept the ∆ symbol? How many times have I written out the word "delta" for no reason?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #91 on: 12/15/2023 04:53 am »
Part of the engine gets red hot!

The other advantage of HTP is its high density. 1.4424 kg/L compared to LOX at 1.149 kg/L. It also has a high oxidiser to fuel ratio, typically over 7! At delta-Vs below 7 km/s, this results in smaller tank sizes compared to kerolox for the same performance. Another advantage is that no ignition source is required. Decomposed HTP will ignite spontaneously with kerosene due to its high decomposed temperature.
« Last Edit: 12/15/2023 04:54 am by Steven Pietrobon »
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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #92 on: 12/15/2023 05:13 am »
Part of the engine gets red hot!



I re-edit the video and zoomed into the upper right-hand corner of the area you pointed out

Video Credit: Dawn Aerospace.

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Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #93 on: 12/15/2023 11:09 pm »
I think what you see is ~900deg C, afaik that's roughly the upperlimit of temperature reached when hydrogenperoxide decomposes. I think you look at the chamber wall of the H2O2 decomposing cathalitic pack.
I thing the method of decomposition is a combination of chamical (cathalizer) and thermal decomposition.
Most likely the red colour is the method to radiate the heat away.

Could this be a good starting point for an kick stage development? 

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #94 on: 12/15/2023 11:14 pm »
And then - small satellites with an expendable upper stage. Admittedly, Rocketlab probably killed that market - well SpaceX F9 rideshares probably killed it for real.

If that market is dead (and I'm not convinced it is), an LV with a rapidly reusable first stage would be just the sort of thing that might be able to reopen it.

I think the beter discription of the purpose for Dawn Aerospace mkII Aurora is :
Atmosphere probing vehicle.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #95 on: 12/15/2023 11:35 pm »

I think the beter discription of the purpose for Dawn Aerospace mkII Aurora is :
Atmosphere probing vehicle.

Great way to sample upper atmosphere especially near edge of space. At present it high altitude balloons and they only go so high.

Would need to operate out of US is NASA wanted to sample upper atmosphere in northern hemisphere. Could be used to take samples straight after launch to see if LVs damage atmosphere.
« Last Edit: 12/15/2023 11:42 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #96 on: 12/16/2023 07:40 pm »
Ralph Huijsman, Lead Propulsion Engineer, commented: “While HTP is the right long-term choice for the spaceplane, it led to some interesting challenges in the development of the engine. The available information is extremely limited and is often outdated or walled off. This meant we ran into some fundamental challenges along the way that were difficult to engineer our way out of. That makes this achievement even more special. It is exciting to see everything come together and work flawlessly.” 
True.

Not the least of which will be the low Isp they'll have to work with in order to 2nd stage launch altitude and velocity.

This will make the structural mass available for vehicle (and the 2nd stage it's going to be carrying) even more challenging than with kerolox.  :(

Obviously not going for actual SSTO (even the assisted kind Radian are aiming for) helps but that low Isp (a poor jet is looking at Isp of 3000s, 450secs is the vac Isp of the SSME) really hurts structural fraction.

I'll wish them good luck.

And Merry Christmas to all.  :)

ISP isn't everything other wise everbody would be using hydrolox. There are operational considerations. Fuel delivery, storage and handling at remote airfields, not cheap or easy with LOX. HTP allows engine to run in lower thrust monopropellant mode, they use this for taxiing and inflight maneuvers, with bipropellant mode used for climb to space, watch the videos.
Yeah, density is sometimes even more important than Isp, ESPECIALLY for an SSTO rocket.

HTP is very dense, too. 1.45 times water, vs 1.14 for LOx. Additionally, the lower effective energy density of HTP/fuel might mean you can operate closer to stoichiometric, thus reducing the actual real life Isp hit from not using LOx. Plus the O:F mixture ratio would be even higher than for oxygen (higher mix ratios help bulk density as the oxidizer is usually denser than the fuel), so you could get excellent bulk density.

In fact, all things being equal, typically you'll get higher SSTO performance with kerolox than hydrolox, and the HTP/RP-1 performance is nearly equal to that of hydrolox for SSTO with the benefit of having room temperature storable propellants:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120206022209/http://www.dunnspace.com/alternate_ssto_propellants.htm
(Looks like Steven Pietrobon already said this.)

And for a first stage, it's just about perfect. (Although at large scale, LOx--besides being high performance--is also the cheapest oxidizer other than straight air itself, which doesn't store very well on a rocket.)
« Last Edit: 12/16/2023 07:41 pm by Robotbeat »
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Offline john smith 19

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #97 on: 12/18/2023 12:59 pm »
Part of the engine gets red hot!

The other advantage of HTP is its high density. 1.4424 kg/L compared to LOX at 1.149 kg/L. It also has a high oxidiser to fuel ratio, typically over 7! At delta-Vs below 7 km/s, this results in smaller tank sizes compared to kerolox for the same performance. Another advantage is that no ignition source is required. Decomposed HTP will ignite spontaneously with kerosene due to its high decomposed temperature.
All good points. I'll also note that (IIRC) all engines that have use it have also used it as the coolant something (despite NASA work on a 40klb pressure fed stand engine in the 90's and Rotary Rocket's work) is still viewed as virtually opening the doors of Hell itself  :).

LOX is also capable of simple densification down to maybe 79-80k just with LN2 (based on the temperature loss through the X33 sub-cooling HX). I think that would get you up to about 1.2Kg/L.

The joker in the pack is always insulation with cryogens, although others have pointed out that at LOX (or even LN2) temps that could be literally a thick coat of paint.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #98 on: 12/18/2023 01:02 pm »
Yeah, density is sometimes even more important than Isp, ESPECIALLY for an SSTO rocket.
True.

For a vertical takeoff SSTO rocket.

But this is a HTO TSTO aircraft.  :(

Different architecture. Different rules.
MCT ITS BFR SS. The worlds first Methane fueled FFSC engined CFRP SS structure A380 sized aerospaceplane tail sitter capable of Earth & Mars atmospheric flight.First flight to Mars by end of 2022 2027?. T&C apply. Trust nothing. Run your own #s "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" R. Simberg."Competitve" means cheaper ¬cheap SCramjet proposed 1956. First +ve thrust 2004. US R&D spend to date > $10Bn. #deployed designs. Zero.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Dawn Aerospace
« Reply #99 on: 12/25/2023 05:36 am »
LOX is also capable of simple densification down to maybe 79-80k just with LN2 (based on the temperature loss through the X33 sub-cooling HX). I think that would get you up to about 1.2Kg/L.

You can get 1.2539 kg/L at -206.7 C (66.5 K), 11.6 K above the freezing point of -218.3 C (54.9 K).
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

 

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