FireFly Beta

[Dmitry_V_home]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

[russianhalo117]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

Yuzmash press release:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/model-for-firefly-aerospace/

Related:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/visit-of-the-firefly-delegation/

[edkyle99]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

Yuzmash press release:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/model-for-firefly-aerospace/

Related:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/visit-of-the-firefly-delegation/

Another Antares.

 - Ed Kyle

[trimeta]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

Yuzmash press release:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/model-for-firefly-aerospace/

Related:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/visit-of-the-firefly-delegation/

Another Antares.

 - Ed Kyle

Perhaps more charitably, "another Soyuz-2," to reference a rocket in this payload class that actually has more than one customer.

[russianhalo117]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

Yuzmash press release:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/model-for-firefly-aerospace/

Related:

https://yuzhmash.com/en/visit-of-the-firefly-delegation/

Another Antares.

 - Ed Kyle

Perhaps more charitably, "another Soyuz-2," to reference a rocket in this payload class that actually has more than one customer.

Overly simplified:
Alpha's diameter is designed to target legacy thor/delta family.
Beta's diameter is designed to target legacy Atlas family.
Future Greek letter named launchers will target progressively larger diameters. It remains to be seen if gamma will remain as presently advertised or target the ~4m class as recent conference materials suggest although not yet named.

[edkyle99]

I was referencing the apparent tank construction and diameter.  Sure looks Zenit/Antares/Tsyklon 4m based.  Same handling equipment etc.   

Puts into question the Firefly claim that "[t]he Beta vehicle utilizes technologies such as all carbon composite tanks ..."

 - Ed Kyle

[Davidthefat]

I was referencing the apparent tank construction and diameter.  Sure looks Zenit/Antares/Tsyklon 4m based.  Same handling equipment etc.   

Puts into question the Firefly claim that "[t]he Beta vehicle utilizes technologies such as all carbon composite tanks ..."

 - Ed Kyle

Looks like weld seams in the mock up. But given it is a mock up, I don't think it really matters.

[RoadWithoutEnd]

What is actually the business case here?  A payload tonnage is not a plan.

[JEF_300]

What is actually the business case here?  A payload tonnage is not a plan.

Launching smallsat constellations. Just like Rocket Lab's Neutron, Relativity's Terran R and, to be frank, the Falcon 9 right now.

[russianhalo117]

I was referencing the apparent tank construction and diameter.  Sure looks Zenit/Antares/Tsyklon 4m based.  Same handling equipment etc.   

Puts into question the Firefly claim that "[t]he Beta vehicle utilizes technologies such as all carbon composite tanks ..."

 - Ed Kyle

Looks like weld seams in the mock up. But given it is a mock up, I don't think it really matters.

The tanks in the very background are 3.9-4.1m Antares/Zenit tooling. The tooling was updated to modify the lower bound of the tooling to 3.7m for Beta. Alpha pathfinder used the Kosmos/Tsyklon tooling 1.6-3m. This hall was shown in an earlier Ukrainian news video on Yuzmash production status last year..

[Asteroza]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

The image gives a very tilt-shift vibe, almost like I was looking at some sort of model diorama, even though it's a full size mockup.

[ugordan]

https://vk.com/wall-143404688_1493
The mockup of the first stage "Beta" is made

The image gives a very tilt-shift vibe, almost like I was looking at some sort of model diorama, even though it's a full size mockup.

That's beacuse the rest of the image was intentionally blurred, giving a forced and very exaggerated depth of field effect. I'm not a fan, it makes the whole thing look like a miniature to my brain as well.

[Kryten]

 More specifically, the fact the background but not the foreground is blurred gives the illusion of a tilted plane of focus, which in turns implies small objects because it implies the photo is taken from a great relative height.

[RoadWithoutEnd]

What is actually the business case here?  A payload tonnage is not a plan.

Launching smallsat constellations. Just like Rocket Lab's Neutron, Relativity's Terran R and, to be frank, the Falcon 9 right now.

Falcon 9 is not dominant because of its payload class.  It's dominant because of its architecture.  A lot of startups hand-wave reusability, as if it's just another feature in the brochure.  But it's really the heart of the matter, pro or con (Astra being the rare case of a convincing 'con' argument).

Firefly started out with interesting ideas, but I'm confused about what they're doing now.

[TrevorMonty]

No talk about Beta being reuseable on their webpage. Given its competition will be reuseable I'd thought Firefly would go down this path.

Beta has 5 x 200klbs Reaver2 which maybe to larger for propulsive landing. They could solve this by adding 50klbs Reaver1. Maybe at cost of 5th Reaver2 and large payload hit.

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[trimeta]

No talk about Beta being reuseable on their webpage. Given its competition will be reuseable I'd thought Firefly would go down this path.

Beta has 5 x 200klbs Reaver2 which maybe to larger for propulsive landing. They could solve this by adding 50klbs Reaver1. Maybe at cost of 5th Reaver2 and large payload hit.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

I've seen discussion suggesting the first stage will be reusable, at least. Their website isn't always the best place to get accurate, up-to-date information about their plans.

[russianhalo117]

No talk about Beta being reuseable on their webpage. Given its competition will be reuseable I'd thought Firefly would go down this path.

Beta has 5 x 200klbs Reaver2 which maybe to larger for propulsive landing. They could solve this by adding 50klbs Reaver1. Maybe at cost of 5th Reaver2 and large payload hit.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Their initial rocket family members Alpha and Beta will be expendable though they are considering to gather reentry data of their booster stages in the future. Members beyond Alpha and Beta are being designed with reuse as the plan. You have to make the company viable and profit producing using your initial offerings to get to the reusability down the road.

[TrevorMonty]

No talk about Beta being reuseable on their webpage. Given its competition will be reuseable I'd thought Firefly would go down this path.

Beta has 5 x 200klbs Reaver2 which maybe to larger for propulsive landing. They could solve this by adding 50klbs Reaver1. Maybe at cost of 5th Reaver2 and large payload hit.

Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk

Their initial rocket family members Alpha and Beta will be expendable though they are considering to gather reentry data of their booster stages in the future. Members beyond Alpha and Beta are being designed with reuse as the plan. You have to make the company viable and profit producing using your initial offerings to get to the reusability down the road.

No denying ELV is best place to start then move on to RLV. I'm hoping they do that with Alpha, its light enough for MAR, but might be bit too heavy for Electron's non propulsive reentry approach.



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[JEF_300]

I was referencing the apparent tank construction and diameter.  Sure looks Zenit/Antares/Tsyklon 4m based.  Same handling equipment etc.   

Puts into question the Firefly claim that "[t]he Beta vehicle utilizes technologies such as all carbon composite tanks ..."

 - Ed Kyle

Perhaps Firefly have realized that carbon composite tanks aren't a great idea? Or at least not right now.

The whole industry seemed to think they were the future for a while. But SpaceX and the overflowing small launcher market have made the launch market as a whole competitive enough that price/launch and $/kg are all that seem to matter these days. Meanwhile, carbon composites remain expensive.

With SpaceX moving from carbon composites to steel for Starship, Rocket Lab moving to metal for Neutron, and the Firefly Alpha being the most expensive of the new 1 ton launchers, perhaps Firefly have just acknowledged the writing on the wall. It's probably a good thing.

[russianhalo117]

I was referencing the apparent tank construction and diameter.  Sure looks Zenit/Antares/Tsyklon 4m based.  Same handling equipment etc.   

Puts into question the Firefly claim that "[t]he Beta vehicle utilizes technologies such as all carbon composite tanks ..."

 - Ed Kyle

Perhaps Firefly have realized that carbon composite tanks aren't a great idea? Or at least not right now.

The whole industry seemed to think they were the future for a while. But SpaceX and the overflowing small launcher market have made the launch market as a whole competitive enough that price/launch and $/kg are all that seem to matter these days. Meanwhile, carbon composites remain expensive.

With SpaceX moving from carbon composites to steel for Starship, Rocket Lab moving to metal for Neutron, and the Firefly Alpha being the most expensive of the new 1 ton launchers, perhaps Firefly have just acknowledged the writing on the wall. It's probably a good thing.

The first Alpha pathfinders were built at Yuzmash with the same method.
Cost for composites goes up with dimensional scaling. That is one reason why SpaceX halted the CFRP track even though the prototype tanks reached the range of atmosfæren bar requirements with desired results. The other reason was the change from horizontal to vertical manufacturing and transport. The third reason was the EDL environment.