Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : USSF-67 : KSC LC-39A : 15 January 2023 (22:56 UTC)  (Read 157724 times)

Offline GewoonLukas_

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NextSpaceflight (Updated January 2nd)
Launch NET January 12th, 22:30 UTC
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/4989
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Offline Perchlorate

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NextSpaceflight (Updated January 2nd)
Launch NET January 12th, 22:30 UTC
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/4989
Would like to fly (general aviation, not airline) down to see this.  Can leave a little buffer for rightward slippage, but not a week.  Thinking about watching NSF for the static fire, then results of SF, etc., then finalizing plans.  That is, hoping it will follow a last 5 days of flow similar to USSF-44.  Reasonable?  Any other tips?
« Last Edit: 01/02/2023 11:13 pm by Perchlorate »
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Manifest thread is still showing ship landings. 

Is that true?  The NSF webcast today said they were RTLs
When do we see the first Superheavy reuse?

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Cross-post:
Ben Cooper's Launch Photography Viewing Guide, updated January 3:
Quote
A Falcon Heavy from pad 39A will launch the USSF-67 mission for the U.S. Space Force on January 12 between 5:30 and 10 p.m. EST. Sunset is 5:45 p.m. The first stages will land back at the Cape about eight minutes after launch.
= Jan 12 22:30 to Jan 13 03:00 UTC
= 4.5 hours launch window
« Last Edit: 01/04/2023 04:39 pm by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline GewoonLukas_

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Manifest thread is still showing ship landings. 

Is that true?  The NSF webcast today said they were RTLs

No, both side-boosters will RTLS. The center core will be expended
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Offline Lewies

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If SpaceX had 3 drone ships, and all 3 boosters landed downrange on them, would that be the same as 2 x RTLS and expend the centre core?
« Last Edit: 01/04/2023 11:12 am by zubenelgenubi »

Offline Perchlorate

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If SpaceX had 3 drone ships, and all 3 boosters landed downrange on them, would that be the same as 2 x RTLS and expend the centre core?

If by "...be the same" you mean "have the same performance," the answer is "No."

Landing center core on droneship still requires it to reserve enough fuel for entry burn and landing burn, plus there's the weight of the landing legs.  So expending the center core brings a significant performance increase.  IANARS, but some RS could tell you how much.
« Last Edit: 01/04/2023 11:12 am by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline litton4

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If SpaceX had 3 drone ships, and all 3 boosters landed downrange on them, would that be the same as 2 x RTLS and expend the centre core?

If by "...be the same" you mean "have the same performance," the answer is "No."

Landing center core on droneship still requires it to reserve enough fuel for entry burn and landing burn, plus there's the weight of the landing legs.  So expending the center core brings a significant performance increase.  IANARS, but some RS could tell you how much.

I think I've seen some estimates on here - 20-30% maybe?
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Offline Perchlorate

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Would like to fly (general aviation, not airline) down to see this.  Can leave a little buffer for rightward slippage, but not a week.  Thinking about watching NSF for the static fire, then results of SF, etc., then finalizing plans.  That is, hoping it will follow a last 5 days of flow similar to USSF-44.  Reasonable?  Any other tips?

Per my earlier post, below is the timeline of USSF-44, which launched on November 1, 2022, but with the dates pushed out 72 days to match the now-scheduled January 12, 2023 launch of USSF-67.  Seems like 44's was a pretty compact flow, so if we don't start seeing some of these events at the bottom of the list happening about now, I'll be adjusting my travel plans.

All times are local/Eastern US.

Date     Day   Time                         Event
Jan 12   L-0   09:41                 Launch (beginning of 30 min window)
Jan 11   L-1   12:30±                 HIF Door open for Rollout
Jan 11   L-1   15:00 - 16:00    Rollout from HIF to Pad
Jan 11   L-1   06:00±                 TFR published
Jan 10   L-2   09:00                 Launch Execution Forecast issued
Jan 10   L-2   04:00 – 08:00    Roll back from Pad to HIF
Jan 09   L-3   20:36 – 20:40    Lowered to horizontal at Pad
Jan 09   L-3   12:00                 KSC Visitor Center issues Launch Alert
Jan 09   L-3   09:00                 Launch Execution Forecast issued
Jan 08   L-4   17:10                 NGA Notice issued
Jan 07   L-5   20:00                 Static Fire
Jan 07   L-5   19:00±                 Doug departs Port Canaveral for Fairing Recovery
Jan 07   L-5   03:25 - 03:45    Raised to Vertical at Pad
Jan 06   L-6   17:45 - 20:00    Rollout from HIF to Pad
Jan 06   L-6   10:24                 HIF Door open for Rollout
Jan 04   L-8   09:26                 Transporter/Erector into HIF
Jan 03   L-9   18:38                 FH in the HIF (SpaceX photo Tweet)
Jan 03   L-9   17:18                 Transporter/Erector lowers after pickup Reaction Frame

[ edited to line up a little better...next time I'll figure out how to use a table ]
« Last Edit: 01/04/2023 01:02 pm by Perchlorate »
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Offline vanoord

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If by "...be the same" you mean "have the same performance," the answer is "No."

Landing center core on droneship still requires it to reserve enough fuel for entry burn and landing burn, plus there's the weight of the landing legs.  So expending the center core brings a significant performance increase.  IANARS, but some RS could tell you how much.

Presumably the performance advantage from expending the centre core is larger than the advantage that would be gained by landing both side cores at sea?

That said, some of the previous logic that justified FH was that it could save an expendable F9 by landing the side cores RTLS and the centre core at sea - but that's presumably constrained by longer processing flows and higher refurb costs; and there may also be a time in the future when expending cores with 15+ flights is considered worth the cost compared to a significant refurbishment.

Online DanClemmensen

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If by "...be the same" you mean "have the same performance," the answer is "No."

Landing center core on droneship still requires it to reserve enough fuel for entry burn and landing burn, plus there's the weight of the landing legs.  So expending the center core brings a significant performance increase.  IANARS, but some RS could tell you how much.

Presumably the performance advantage from expending the centre core is larger than the advantage that would be gained by landing both side cores at sea?

That said, some of the previous logic that justified FH was that it could save an expendable F9 by landing the side cores RTLS and the centre core at sea - but that's presumably constrained by longer processing flows and higher refurb costs; and there may also be a time in the future when expending cores with 15+ flights is considered worth the cost compared to a significant refurbishment.
I think it's simpler than that. FH is a low-volume product that launches high-value payloads, and it has no competition. SpaceX can charge a lot of money per launch, so there is little incentive in reusing the core booster. The only "competition" is that customers can choose to modify the payloads or operations and use the F9, where SpaceX charges a lot less but has a higher profit margin. SpaceX apparently has ample production capacity for FH cores, since they are not building many new F9 boosters.

I'm not sure of all the reasons SpaceX chose to develop FH, but one big one was NSSL. To bid for NSSL, a company was required to support all nine of the mission profiles and F9 alone could not support them. This means the existence of FH allows SpaceX to profit from NSSL F9 launches even if FH would not make economic sense as a standalone product.

« Last Edit: 01/04/2023 09:44 pm by spacenuance »

Offline Conexion Espacial

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We will have a long launch window.
Quote
NextSpaceflight (Updated January 4nd)

Window Open: Thu Jan 12, 2023 22:30 UTC
Window Close: Fri Jan 13, 2023 03:00 UTC
NET: Thu Jan 12, 2023 22:30 UTC
https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/4989
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Online Vettedrmr

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If SpaceX had 3 drone ships, and all 3 boosters landed downrange on them, would that be the same as 2 x RTLS and expend the centre core?

Probably not.

1. the cost of maintaining and operating that 3rd ASDS for a small number of flights
2. The cost of operation of 2 ASDS and support vessels
3. The additional fuel/oxidizer that needs to be carried for the extended entry burn due to the center core's much higher energy state on reentry.
4. The schedule risk due to requiring acceptable landing conditions at two (at least) separate areas.
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Offline Ken the Bin

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Per this information from the FAA ATCSCC Current Operations Plan, the launch window isn't going to last until 03:00.

https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_spt.jsp

Quote from: FAA
SPACE X USSF-67 KENNEDY SPACE CENTER, FL
PRIMARY:        01/12/23        2200Z-0247Z
BACKUP:         01/13-18/23     2200Z-0247Z
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Online Josh_from_Canada

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NextSpaceFlight, updated January 5:
Center Core listed as B1070
Launches Seen: Atlas V OA-7, Falcon 9 Starlink 6-4, Falcon 9 CRS-28,

Offline GewoonLukas_

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Kennedy Space Center Visitors Complex is now selling Launch Viewing Packages:
https://twitter.com/ExploreSpaceKSC/status/1611072503803174917
https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/launches-and-events/events-calendar/2023/january/rocket-launch-spacex-falcon-heavy-ussf-67?sf263293824=1

Quote
🚨 LAUNCH ALERT 🚨
🚀SpaceX will launch a Falcon Heavy on the #USSF67 mission.
⏰No Earlier Than (NET) January 12.
🎟Launch viewing packages are now available: https://bit.ly/3IvtEdl

Quote
This launch is scheduled NET (No Earlier Than) January 12, 2023.

A SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket will launch the USSF 67 mission for the U.S. Space Force. The mission will launch the Space Force's second Continuous Broadcast Augmenting SATCOM, or CBAS 2, communications satellite and the Long Duration Propulsive ESPA 3A, or LDPE 3A, rideshare satellite hosting multiple experimental payloads.

For this launch, the Falcon Heavy's two side boosters will land on landing zone 1 and landing zone 2 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station, and the core stage will be expended. During this double landing, you will be able to see the boosters descend back towards the landing zones, like seen in the video below, and then experience a double sonic boom from their re-entry.
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Offline lenny97

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Ben Cooper just updated, my bold:


Quote
A Falcon Heavy from pad 39A will launch the USSF-67 mission for the U.S. Space Force onJanuary 12 between 5:45 and 10 p.m. EST.
Founder of www.spacevoyaging.com — Independent Space News Blog
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Offline GewoonLukas_

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Transport Erector going vertical to pick up the reaction frame right now!!

https://nsf.live/spacecoast

Edit: Fixed link
« Last Edit: 01/06/2023 08:54 am by GewoonLukas_ »
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Offline gtae07

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That said, some of the previous logic that justified FH was that it could save an expendable F9 by landing the side cores RTLS and the centre core at sea - but that's presumably constrained by longer processing flows and higher refurb costs; and there may also be a time in the future when expending cores with 15+ flights is considered worth the cost compared to a significant refurbishment.

Plus, there's the existing track record of FH center core recovery attempts (1/3, IIRC) to consider.  The risk of losing one during landing is higher, and you have to charge more to cover that risk... and by that point most customers probably trade a little more cost, expend the center core, and buy more performance (propellant savings, mass budget, etc) for themselves.

I suspect the performance "window" bounded by expended F9 on the low end, and center core recovery limits on the high end, is pretty small--and because of the extra costs you cite, anything that can go F9 expendable vs. FH recovered probably will as the price is probably a wash.

 

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