Space tourism resurgence and manifest

[FutureSpaceTourist]

It made me start wondering about future tourist flights. AX-1 to AX-4 seem reasonably solid, but is there any news on the supposed Space Adventures Crew Dragon Launch?

Inspiration 4 proves people can just deal with SpaceX direct. Granted, not everyone will want to be as hands on as Jared is and so may welcome someone managing things for them. But SpaceX could equally take that role, so I think it begs the question what can Space Adventures offer beyond what SpaceX can do?

[RoadWithoutEnd]

I'd call any mission that goes to ISS a private-public partnership, and any private venture that builds itself around such a visit is self-limiting.  ISS is a sarcophagus of dreams, and a sad comment on just about every aspect of traditional spaceflight.

"Free space" missions like Inspiration4 get much closer to the point.  No one out there but "we ourselves": People who have gone solely To Go, with no obligation but that and each other.  To be The Beginning in itself, rather than an exalted afterthought in someone's two-dimensional Earth-bound agenda.

[jebbo]

But SpaceX could equally take that role, so I think it begs the question what can Space Adventures offer beyond what SpaceX can do?

Indeed. In the days where tourists piggybacked on government launches, their value was obvious. Far less obvious now ... though perhaps for ISS flights there is still a role for them.

On the broader question of orbital tourism, it feels to me that the market for purely orbital jaunts is limited and that we need more permanent destinations before it can really take off. So Axiom Hub One/Two is a good start and not far off. Hopefully Sierra Space LIFE will become more real soon as well ...

--- Tony

[jebbo]

ISS is a sarcophagus of dreams, and a sad comment on just about every aspect of traditional spaceflight.

I don't quite get this pessimism over the ISS. Its capacity is steadily increasing, and it enables establishment of commercial stations like Axiom ... hard to see a viable model for them without the ISS. But this isn't the thread to discuss it really. The one in the ISS section on commercialisation is probably best.

--- Tony

[abaddon]

4x Inspiration4 crewmembers
4x Crew-3 (publicly announced)
4x Crew-4 (publicly announced)
4x Likely Crew-5 (given training time)
That leaves at least another 4, potentially for Crew-6 early training, or for Axiom Mission 1.

I know I'm a little LTTP, but don't forget the three* crew members who have been training (for a very long time for two of them) for Boeing's CFT.

Assuming Chris Ferguson will be replaced with another Boeing astro, which may not be the case, in which case it will be two.

[D_Dom]

Not to worry, this party is moving at orbital velocity!
 To clarify, the twenty astronauts EDZIEBA mentioned are engaged in SpaceX training.
No telling how many more are working in some fashion with the "Old Space" providers but IMHO many are tourists in addition to being astronauts in training.

...

More than 20 astronauts from around the world are currently going through SpaceX human spaceflight training

4x Inspiration4 crewmembers
...

(edited to correct typos)

[Robotbeat]

But SpaceX could equally take that role, so I think it begs the question what can Space Adventures offer beyond what SpaceX can do?

Indeed. In the days where tourists piggybacked on government launches, their value was obvious. Far less obvious now ... though perhaps for ISS flights there is still a role for them.

On the broader question of orbital tourism, it feels to me that the market for purely orbital jaunts is limited and that we need more permanent destinations before it can really take off. So Axiom Hub One/Two is a good start and not far off. Hopefully Sierra Space LIFE will become more real soon as well ...

--- Tony

One thing that occurs to me is that I think a lot of these “space tourism” flights are not really any different from what US govt has done in the past. Inspiration4 is doing biomedical experiments, outreach, etc. Kind of funny that Senator Nelson is considered an astronaut and yet the Inspiration 4 folks will not, even though they commanded and piloted the mission, acted as medical specialist, and will be engaged in experiments while Nelson was referred to as “ballast.”

I think the future of “space tourism” flights is doing experiments and maybe even more practical stuff like setting up infrastructure.

[trimeta]

Kind of funny that Senator Nelson is considered an astronaut and yet the Inspiration 4 folks will not, even though they commanded and piloted the mission, acted as medical specialist, and will be engaged in experiments while Nelson was referred to as “ballast.”

This is actually an interesting question: if we look at the FAA's recently-updated policy on eligibility for astronaut wings, the three requirements are "Meet the requirements for flight crew qualifications and training under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 460," "Demonstrated flight beyond 50 statute miles above the surface of the Earth as flight crew on an FAA/AST licensed or permitted launch or reentry vehicle," and "Demonstrated activities during flight that were essential to public safety, or contributed to human space flight safety." The Inspiration4 crew certainly meet the middle requirement, and arguably their health experiments (in conjunction with TRISH) satisfy the third requirement. For the first, we can look at 14 CFR § 460.5. Parts (a) and (b) seem like exactly the type of training the Inspiration4 crew received, so the question is whether Isaacman and Proctor (the Commander and Pilot of the mission) received training and certification in accordance with parts (c) and (d), and if Arceneaux (as the Medical Officer) along with possibly Isaacman and Proctor (whose roles may also qualify as "safety-critical") received certification in accordance with part (e). With six months of training, it wouldn't surprise me if they did, in which case they (along with Sembroski, who I think would only need to pass parts (a) and (b)) would receive official FAA astronaut wings.

Edit: Wait, an "FAA second-class airman medical certificate" as required by part (e) isn't a training, it's a medical check-up. I'm sure all four crew members of Inspiration4 had careful medical screenings, but I don't think SpaceX would turn them down if they failed one or more of the specific requirements here. I guess it depends whether they happen to have passed all the tests.

[trimeta]

On the topic I discussed earlier, this article at CNN suggests that the FAA may withhold Commercial Space Astronaut Wings from the Inspiration4 crew for "didn't cross all the T's and dot all the I's" reasons. At some point, if the FAA refuses to give anyone its "Commercial Space Astronaut Wings," they devalue the whole concept and remove themselves as having any sort of authority (in the eyes of the public) for the distribution of astronaut wings.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

From SpaceX press conference post Inspiration 4 splashdown:

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1439386793326092290

Benji Reed says, in the wake of Inspiration4, the number of people approaching SpaceX about orbital flights is increasing significantly. I know they're already negotiating for missions three years from now. I'd expect demand greatly exceeds supply.

https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1439388568477110282

In response to a question about Crew Dragon capacity for free-flyer missions, Benji Reed says they will look at scaling up Dragon options. Also mentions Starship is "on the horizon," and that vehicle will be able to take a lot more people into space at a time.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/after-inspiration4-spacex-sees-high-demand-for-free-flyer-missions/

After Inspiration4, SpaceX sees high demand for free-flyer missions
"We have interest for both Dragons and Starships, which is pretty exciting."

ERIC BERGER - 9/20/2021, 2:37 PM

From article:

However, according to sources, the cost of an individual seat on future orbital flights is expected to be less than $40 million, and SpaceX will seek to drive prices down further for human orbital flights.

[RedLineTrain]

Musk and Shotwell have always stated pretty modest ambitions on Crewed Dragon for private spaceflight, but it's looking like this could be a quite reasonable bit of business for the company.  This "resurgence" has sort of crept up on me and surprised me.

Destinations, if any, and the transition from Dragon to Starship are pretty interesting.

[freddo411]

I'm interested in opinions on Dragon2 tourist flights.   Please take a moment for this poll ...

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=54821.0

[FutureSpaceTourist]

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russian_Govt_allocates_60Mln_to_build_Soyuz_for_tourist_flights_999.html

Russian Gov't allocates $60Mln to build Soyuz for tourist flights
by Staff Writers
Moscow (Sputnik) Sep 17, 2021

The Russian government has allocated more than 4.4 billion rubles ($60.6 million) to space company Glavkosmos, a subsidiary of the Roscosmos state corporation, for the production of a rocket and spaceship for tourist flights by 2024.

[Tomness]

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russian_Govt_allocates_60Mln_to_build_Soyuz_for_tourist_flights_999.html

Russian Gov't allocates $60Mln to build Soyuz for tourist flights
by Staff Writers
Moscow (Sputnik) Sep 17, 2021

The Russian government has allocated more than 4.4 billion rubles ($60.6 million) to space company Glavkosmos, a subsidiary of the Roscosmos state corporation, for the production of a rocket and spaceship for tourist flights by 2024.

Wow, so we were subsidizing their cosmonauts flights at 70-90 million per seat. One seat was paying for the whole flight. At 30-60 million a seat would give them a cash flow positive on their flights.

[freddo411]

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Russian_Govt_allocates_60Mln_to_build_Soyuz_for_tourist_flights_999.html

Russian Gov't allocates $60Mln to build Soyuz for tourist flights
by Staff Writers
Moscow (Sputnik) Sep 17, 2021

The Russian government has allocated more than 4.4 billion rubles ($60.6 million) to space company Glavkosmos, a subsidiary of the Roscosmos state corporation, for the production of a rocket and spaceship for tourist flights by 2024.

Wow, so we were subsidizing their cosmonauts flights at 70-90 million per seat. One seat was paying for the whole flight. At 30-60 million a seat would give them a cash flow positive on their flights.

I'm not surprised about this.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

Soyuz MS-19 is launching within the next 24 hours, carrying with it the first serious movie production on the ISS with Director Klim Shipenko and actress Yulia Perselid. By coincidence, while they're in space shooting a movie, Star Trek star William Shatner will fly to space for a few minutes on New Shepard,  becoming the oldest person to fly to space.
And in another unrelated story that's oddly related, a Kazakh businessman wants to trade one of the only surviving Buran shuttles for the skull of Khaaaaaan... oh wait I mean the skull of the last Kazakh Khan.

[FutureSpaceTourist]

From Crew-3 press conference just now prior to their flight end of this month:

https://twitter.com/spcplcyonline/status/1446178353816522759

Q-have you connected w/the Ax-1 crew and the Japanese tourists who will visit ISS while you're there?
Chari: yes, we've met all of them. This is great time in spaceflight.

[su27k]

FAA Ends Commercial Space Astronaut Wings Program, Will Recognize Individuals Reaching Space on Website

Friday, December 10, 2021
WASHINGTON – With the advent of the commercial space tourism era, starting in 2022, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) will now recognize individuals who reach space on its website instead of issuing Commercial Space Astronaut Wings. Any individual who is on an FAA-licensed or permitted launch and reaches 50 statute miles above the surface of the Earth will be listed on the site.

“The U.S. commercial human spaceflight industry has come a long way from conducting test flights to launching paying customers into space,” FAA Associate Administrator Wayne Monteith said. “The Astronaut Wings program, created in 2004, served its original purpose to bring additional attention to this exciting endeavor. Now it’s time to offer recognition to a larger group of adventurers daring to go to space.”

The FAA expects the commercial human spaceflight industry to continue to grow and the number of people launching to space to increase dramatically in the coming years.

The Wings program was created by the FAA Office of Commercial Space Transportation’s former Associate Administrator, the late Patti Grace Smith. Its purpose was to recognize pilots and flight crew who furthered the FAA’s mission to promote the development of vehicles designed to carry humans into space. With three commercial space companies now licensed by the FAA to fly spaceflight participants, and companies conducting operations, her vision is largely fulfilled.

Before the Wings program ends, the FAA will award Commercial Space Astronaut Wings to those who had qualifying space travel in 2021, including 15 individuals who have already travelled beyond 50 statute miles above the surface of the Earth on a FAA-licensed launch. Individuals on qualifying flights occurring prior the end of the year are also eligible to receive Wings.

In addition, the FAA is making an honorary award of Commercial Space Astronaut Wings to two individuals who flew on a FAA-permitted experimental test flight in a space launch vehicle that broke up during flight in 2014.

For a complete list of FAA Commercial Space Astronaut Wings recipients, click here.

[su27k]

Majority of Americans don't want to travel to the Moon

Private human spaceflight has advanced tremendously in the last year, but many ordinary people aren't ready to visit the Moon themselves, according to a new Axios/Momentive poll.

Why it matters: Private space tourism today caters to an ultra-rich clientele, but eventually, the companies making a business out of sending people to space want to widen their reach to many more people.

Driving the news: The new poll found 61% of adults surveyed wouldn't be interested in taking a trip to the Moon even if money weren't a factor.

Actually 39% (or 37% if you read the bar chart) wanting to go to the Moon sounds like a pretty good number.