Author Topic: SpaceX Starship : First Flight : Starbase, TX : 20 April 2023 - DISCUSSION (Read 532621 times)

scr00chy · « **Reply #20 on:** 05/13/2021 08:24 pm »

Interestingly, the license request says "splashdown" for Starship, but "touchdown" for Super Heavy. Does that mean SH will target one of the oil rigs?

capoman · « **Reply #21 on:** 05/13/2021 08:24 pm »

Quote from: kevinof on 05/13/2021 08:12 pm

Quote from: ugordan on 05/13/2021 08:09 pm
Quote from: equiserre on 05/13/2021 07:53 pm
It is a pity to loose all those Raptors, but let´s remember that they still need to validate booster reentry without the reentry burn. They have good data on the rest of the booster flight profile, but this.

I mean, it's not like the whole stack successfully getting to staging is a slam dunk IMHO.

Expecting the first launch to sail through all the way to booster reentry is a tall order. This isn't a campaign like the F9 development one was. There are no extended static tests of an integrated booster propulsion unit (with however many Raptors they're planning to fit on it) planned or even possible. There's a real chance the whole flight goes the way of an N1 so already worrying about dunking perfectly good Raptors into the drink is maybe a tad premature?
Inclined to agree. This is aggressive which is not unusual for SpaceX. I’ll be happy it reaches and completes staging.

Agreed as well, although staging will be something they are familiar with and likely has a reasonable chance of success. It's just a matter of scale. Reentry however is a totally different story. I suspect it has a high probability of failure.

Looking at the document it doesn't exactly say but it looks like Starlink is going to involved in the telemetry streams. No surprise though since they first did that with SN15.

Toast · « **Reply #22 on:** 05/13/2021 08:26 pm »

Reading those FCC exhibits, it says "Booster Touchdown" vs "Ship Splashdown" in the event timelines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as saying they're going to expend the Starship prototype (or at best fish it out of the ocean), but they're going to attempt to land the booster. Is it looking like the Phobos/Deimos platforms will be ready by June?

jimvela · « **Reply #23 on:** 05/13/2021 08:27 pm »

Any chance the mysterious missing drone ship is in Hawaii somewhere?

Curriston · « **Reply #24 on:** 05/13/2021 08:28 pm »

This document says they will land the booster in the Gulf, it specifically mentions a water landing for Starship, but Heavy it just says land in the Gulf? They could tow one of the barges over from the cape and have it on hand to recover the booster if they want to try? But then maybe this first booster will not have as many Raptors, but the Gulf is pretty shallow, I would expect some other country might just want to try and come recover those engines if left in the Gulf? No matter what they do, they have a lot of building to do on the launch pad in the next 60 days, going to be exciting!!!

nacnud · « **Reply #25 on:** 05/13/2021 08:30 pm »

Quote from: jimvela on 05/13/2021 08:27 pm

Any chance the mysterious missing drone ship is in Hawaii somewhere?

A shortfall of gravitas is in Louisiana

Negan · « **Reply #26 on:** 05/13/2021 08:38 pm »

Doesn't sound like there's going to be any booster hops.

FutureSpaceTourist · « **Reply #27 on:** 05/13/2021 08:38 pm »

Apologies for any confusion. We had two different threads in different forum sections for this topic. I’ve merged them to stop any further duplication / divergence.

Leaving in missions for now; easy to move later if it’s decided this thread sits better in the SS section with the other test flight threads.

neoforce · « **Reply #28 on:** 05/13/2021 08:40 pm »

Quote from: Curriston on 05/13/2021 08:28 pm

This document says they will land the booster in the Gulf, it specifically mentions a water landing for Starship, but Heavy it just says land in the Gulf? They could tow one of the barges over from the cape and have it on hand to recover the booster if they want to try? But then maybe this first booster will not have as many Raptors, but the Gulf is pretty shallow, I would expect some other country might just want to try and come recover those engines if left in the Gulf? No matter what they do, they have a lot of building to do on the launch pad in the next 60 days, going to be exciting!!!

I was wondering this as well... The wording in the doc is:

Quote

The Booster will then perform a partial return and land in the Gulf of Mexico approximately 20 miles from the shore. The Orbital Starship ... off the northwest coast of Kauai in a soft ocean landing.

"land" vs "soft ocean landing"

For this filing do they need to be specific? Could they be considering ASOG, Phobos or Deimos to land the booster?

niwax · « **Reply #29 on:** 05/13/2021 08:45 pm »

Quote from: Toast on 05/13/2021 08:26 pm

Reading those FCC exhibits, it says "Booster Touchdown" vs "Ship Splashdown" in the event timelines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as saying they're going to expend the Starship prototype (or at best fish it out of the ocean), but they're going to attempt to land the booster. Is it looking like the Phobos/Deimos platforms will be ready by June?

I guess they wouldn't need much of the pad infrastructure on a platform to support landings. Any chance they might only outfit one of them for launches and the other one for landings?

neoforce · « **Reply #30 on:** 05/13/2021 08:52 pm »

I don't understand all of the pieces of government approval required for a flight... this one is FCC so focused on the comms needed during the flight, right?

So I assume there will be other filings for things like requesting NOTAMs etc?

Would any of the filings require SpaceX to be specific that they are attempting a landing on a platform in the gulf vs just a controlled landing into the ocean and expending the SuperHeavy?

mark_m · « **Reply #31 on:** 05/13/2021 08:53 pm »

Quote from: Toast on 05/13/2021 08:26 pm

Reading those FCC exhibits, it says "Booster Touchdown" vs "Ship Splashdown" in the event timelines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as saying they're going to expend the Starship prototype (or at best fish it out of the ocean), but they're going to attempt to land the booster. Is it looking like the Phobos/Deimos platforms will be ready by June?

Also, the FCC document specifically says, "a soft ocean landing", which seems pretty unambiguous. It seems the plan is to pretend the ocean is a hard surface, practice landing, then softly sink/fall over, just like the initial Falcon 9 landing tests.

Edit: For Starship, I mean. It does sound like the booster will attempt a landing on Phobos/Deimos. Exciting times!

nacnud · « **Reply #32 on:** 05/13/2021 08:54 pm »

Quote from: niwax on 05/13/2021 08:45 pm

Quote from: Toast on 05/13/2021 08:26 pm
Reading those FCC exhibits, it says "Booster Touchdown" vs "Ship Splashdown" in the event timelines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reading that as saying they're going to expend the Starship prototype (or at best fish it out of the ocean), but they're going to attempt to land the booster. Is it looking like the Phobos/Deimos platforms will be ready by June?

I guess they wouldn't need much of the pad infrastructure on a platform to support landings. Any chance they might only outfit one of them for launches and the other one for landings?

I can think of lots of possible combinations of launching and landing sites. The question that needs to be answered before these can be narrowed down is will the booster ever have legs?

DavP · « **Reply #33 on:** 05/13/2021 08:55 pm »

I think this test won't happen until late summer. Lots of things to do yet.

Rocket Surgeon · « **Reply #34 on:** 05/13/2021 08:58 pm »

Quote from: DavP on 05/13/2021 07:56 pm

Sorry, I'm a bit newbie at this. Who has make this plan? What is the FCC?

Anyway, great news to see some information about this test. Let's if it occurs in July but I don't think so

Well this isn't so much who they have to make the plan with but they need to inform the FCC, Federal Communications Commission, of any broadcasting during any flight.

Hence why they've filed this plan with the FCC.

We tend to get most of our information from either them, or enviromental assessment really

lrk · « **Reply #35 on:** 05/13/2021 09:00 pm »

Huh. I wonder if they aren't returning the booster to the launch site, do they even need to finish the integration / catch tower before their first launch attempt? They could potentially rig up a boom extension on one of their mobile cranes for stacking the first starship.

Vikranth · « **Reply #36 on:** 05/13/2021 09:04 pm »

So , since it's getting real , What could be the final orbit of Starship after insertion. Will they keep it low to minimise TPS heating for the time being , also since the landing (or splashdown) is 90 minutes after liftoff , from Boca TX to Hawaii in eastward direction could mean the it will complete a single orbit before re-entering.

Also will they be testing the R-Vacs for the first time in Orbit?

2megs · « **Reply #37 on:** 05/13/2021 09:07 pm »

Admittedly, I only have a KSP-level knowledge of orbital mechanics, so please gently educate me if I'm wrong here.

Can this actually complete a full orbit? Looking at the times (SECO @ 521, Ship Splashdown @ 5420) I'm having a hard time seeing how they launch from Boca Chica, orbit all the way around past Boca Chica, and then make it another 300 degrees around to Kauai.

Assuming the answer is "No, it doesn't go all the way around"... Will this achieve orbital velocity and then do a de-orbit burn? Or will it just be a very long ballistic trajectory? (The lack of a second burn of the second stage would suggest it's the later.)

ugordan · « **Reply #38 on:** 05/13/2021 09:08 pm »

The released timeline and reentry location is not inconsistent with an orbital injection that has the perigee low enough to ensure reentry at the tail end of the first orbit. This could ensure that SS comes down no matter what, although setting up the reentry corridor already at SECO might introduce large downrange landing dispersions?

Coopman0 · « **Reply #39 on:** 05/13/2021 09:10 pm »

Will this Starship have a heatshield on it?