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#180
by
Robotbeat
on 16 May, 2021 04:44
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#181
by
Scintillant
on 16 May, 2021 06:50
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...
BTW, just as a complete shot in the dark, but has anyone checked if there’s an existing platform on the spot on the map where SH is shown to be landing? What’s the water depth there?
Found one, and it appears to be about 20 miles off-shore, in the spot indicated on the FCC document:
https://skytruth-org.carto.com/viz/6b36c068-1dd0-11e6-b5c7-0e8c56e2ffdb/public_map
https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=273481
That map says it's current as of 2016, so I'm not sure if that platform is there anymore. From what I can tell, the parent of the operating company hasn't mentioned platforms in their financial statements since 2017, and the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management
dashboard doesn't show an active lease there currently.
Maybe someone could ask RGV to fly over and check
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#182
by
Jcc
on 16 May, 2021 15:00
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I really doubt that there will be any attempt to have the booster land on anything but water. They did that several times with F9, even with production legs deploying at the right moment. They used several water landings to refine the models and flight software. There is close to zero chance a first landing attempt with the booster would be successful, trying it would not accelerate progress, but would probably slow it.
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#183
by
RonM
on 16 May, 2021 15:35
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I really doubt that there will be any attempt to have the booster land on anything but water. They did that several times with F9, even with production legs deploying at the right moment. They used several water landings to refine the models and flight software. There is close to zero chance a first landing attempt with the booster would be successful, trying it would not accelerate progress, but would probably slow it.
The lessons of landing F9 have been learned. Super Heavy requires engineering work because it is a different vehicle, but it is basically an overgrown F9. There's a pretty good chance a prototype with legs will successfully land the first time they try it. Whether SpaceX tries this time is more of a schedule and resource issue.
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#184
by
electricdawn
on 16 May, 2021 15:46
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I'm not so sure about that. Raptor is still somewhat in its infancy, and there's quite a lot more of them on Superheavy then there are Merlins on an F9. I'd say SpaceX will go for a soft ocean landing and then see how it worked out.
But what do I know?
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#185
by
RedLineTrain
on 16 May, 2021 15:56
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#186
by
Robotbeat
on 16 May, 2021 16:13
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...
BTW, just as a complete shot in the dark, but has anyone checked if there’s an existing platform on the spot on the map where SH is shown to be landing? What’s the water depth there?
Found one, and it appears to be about 20 miles off-shore, in the spot indicated on the FCC document:
https://skytruth-org.carto.com/viz/6b36c068-1dd0-11e6-b5c7-0e8c56e2ffdb/public_map
https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=273481
As referenced above in my post, the BSEE says both of the platforms in lease block 1133 (A & B) were removed in 2012.
I guess you would have to do a flyover to determine whether anything suitable for use remains. Seems unlikely, but you never know.
Edit: More information from BSEE. Platforms A & B were fixed structures at 127 feet depth and had heliports. Latitude 26.15071399 and longitude -96.88102027. Platform A was considered a major structure while Platform B was not.
can we get someone to do some Planet Labs images of that spot?
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#187
by
Robotbeat
on 16 May, 2021 16:32
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In addition to the one that was “removed” in 2016, there’s also this other platform very near by. But it doesn’t have an installation date.
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#188
by
RedLineTrain
on 16 May, 2021 16:38
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#189
by
StarshipTrooper
on 16 May, 2021 16:47
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There are just weeks to go until the earliest possible launch date for the first orbital test flight of Starship & Superheavy. What do you think the configuration of engines/thrusters be? Why do you think so?
How many raptor engines?
Will it have meth/lox thrusters?
Will it include non-throttle-able raptors?
Will starship have vacuum raptors?
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#190
by
RedLineTrain
on 16 May, 2021 16:48
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The attached Environmental Assessment appears to indicate that both platforms were dynamited. Also attached are the original plans. See page 62 for the plan drawings of the platforms. Pretty simple structure really.
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#191
by
FutureSpaceTourist
on 16 May, 2021 17:07
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#192
by
andyr
on 16 May, 2021 18:02
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Will it have grid fins.
As SS won't have a payload, you'd imagine they could have far fewer Raptors on BN3.
You could also ask if SN20 will *only* have vacuum raptors if its not going to try and land.
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#193
by
Alberto-Girardi
on 16 May, 2021 18:06
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There are just weeks to go until the earliest possible launch date for the first orbital test flight of Starship & Superheavy. What do you think the configuration of engines/thrusters be? Why do you think so?
How many raptor engines?
Will it have meth/lox thrusters?
Will it include non-throttle-able raptors?
Will starship have vacuum raptors?
AFAIU there isn't a certain answer to any of your questions.
1) almost surely less than the number of a full operational flight.
2) there is progres being made at McGregor with testing, so it is possible that sn20 will be equipped with them
3) This IIUC is the least sure answer of all the questions. I think no, because most probably there will be less raptors, and no heavy payload that necessitetes the high thrust version to lift off.
4) There was (I'm not sure, but probably it is still there)a pathfinder theust dome with vavuum raptors mounting hardware. On the raptor engine thread (not the corruent one, the thread 3 IIRC) there was a discussion about flying SS with three seal level engines. The resoult was that there were challenges (the vacuum version is longer than the sea level one). So it is probable that they will use vac raptors.
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#194
by
electricdawn
on 16 May, 2021 18:06
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I would dare to say that the booster will definitely have grid fins, since it is planned to land it softly in the ocean. Not sure about SN20. The sea level raptors might be strong enough to push it into a near orbit if there's no payload on board. That, and we also haven't seen much of the vac raptors to begin with. Although that might change soon.
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#195
by
philw1776
on 16 May, 2021 18:08
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There are just weeks to go until the earliest possible launch date for the first orbital test flight of Starship & Superheavy. What do you think the configuration of engines/thrusters be? Why do you think so?
How many raptor engines? my guess minimum 16 on SH, 8+ outer, 8 inner and 6 on SS
Will it have meth/lox thrusters? Not yet
Will it include non-throttle-able raptors? Yes, 8+ outer rim SH engines will be non-throttle-able and non-moveable
Will starship have vacuum raptors? Yes 3 of the 6 SS engines will be Rvac
Plus...
SH will land on something, not just settle into the ocean like the Starship off Kauai
Above are opinion, not definitive facts
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#196
by
andyr
on 16 May, 2021 18:12
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Will it have grid fins.
As SS won't have a payload, you'd imagine they could have far fewer Raptors on BN3.
You could also ask if SN20 will *only* have vacuum raptors if its not going to try and land.
there isn't enough space for three vacum raptor in the center of the skirt.
I didn't say they should be in the centre. I'm saying in their proper position, but without the 3 centre gimbaling raptors.
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#197
by
CruddyCuber
on 16 May, 2021 18:14
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Vacuum Raptors have been seen at McGregor, and a pathfinder dome with mounts for Rvacs has been spotted, so I think it's fairly safe to assume that SN20 will have Rvacs. The most recent picture I could find of SN20's aft dome shows that it is currently incomplete, but it looks promising to my untrained eye.
Image credit: Gary Blair
Image credit: Rgvaerialphotography
Image credit: Bocachicagal
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#198
by
Lars-J
on 16 May, 2021 18:22
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Will it have grid fins.
As SS won't have a payload, you'd imagine they could have far fewer Raptors on BN3.
You could also ask if SN20 will *only* have vacuum raptors if its not going to try and land.
there isn't enough space for three vacum raptor in the center of the skirt.
I didn't say they should be in the centre. I'm saying in their proper position, but without the 3 centre gimbaling raptors.
No. It needs 6 raptors to reach orbit.
And you cannot mount 3 sea level raptors where the vac Raptor mounts are since they are so much smaller and will melt the skirt and sea level raptors. You would need a janky 6ft mount extension to make sure that the nozzle end is at the same level as the center engine.
See this image, which is also interestingly roughly how close the vacuum engines will be mounted to the center raptors.
In certainly think the first orbital (expendable) Starship will have the final engine configuration, given that vacuum Raptor testing at McGregor has been going on for a while now.
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#199
by
andyr
on 16 May, 2021 18:23
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Are you sure it needs 6 raptors when it will have zero payload ?
