SpaceX Starship : First Flight : Starbase, TX : 20 April 2023 - DISCUSSION

[kdhilliard]

It will be interesting to see (i.e. "hear") how many decibels this bird generates at liftoff.  I think Saturn V was around 120-125, while SLS-1 was 135-140.

Is there a standard distance these are measured at?

This article quotes Saturn V as 120 dB from 1.5 km away. The same distance for SLS was recorded at 136 dB.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230306-just-how-loud-is-a-rocket-launch

That would make sense, but instead the article cites measurements at 1.5 mi for Saturn V and 1.5 km for SLS.

Even 1.5 miles (2.4km) away, the noise from a Saturn V launch was recorded as being 120 decibels – as loud as a rock concert, or a car horn at very close quarters.
...
A study by scientists at Brigham Young University and Rollins College in Florida studied recordings from the SLS during the Artemis 1 launch in November 2022 found it made more noise than pre-launch models had predicted. They found at 0.9 miles (1.5km) from the launchpad, the maximum noise level reached 136 decibels while at 3.2 miles (5.2km) it was 129 decibels.

(There's a pun in there somewhere about comparing Apollos and Orange rockets.)

[litton4]

It will be interesting to see (i.e. "hear") how many decibels this bird generates at liftoff.  I think Saturn V was around 120-125, while SLS-1 was 135-140.

Is there a standard distance these are measured at?

This article quotes Saturn V as 120 dB from 1.5 km away. The same distance for SLS was recorded at 136 dB.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230306-just-how-loud-is-a-rocket-launch

That would make sense, but instead the article cites measurements at 1.5 mi for Saturn V and 1.5 km for SLS.

Even 1.5 miles (2.4km) away, the noise from a Saturn V launch was recorded as being 120 decibels – as loud as a rock concert, or a car horn at very close quarters.
...
A study by scientists at Brigham Young University and Rollins College in Florida studied recordings from the SLS during the Artemis 1 launch in November 2022 found it made more noise than pre-launch models had predicted. They found at 0.9 miles (1.5km) from the launchpad, the maximum noise level reached 136 decibels while at 3.2 miles (5.2km) it was 129 decibels.

(There's a pun in there somewhere about comparing Apollos and Orange rockets.)

When I take my car on a track day, the static measurement has to be (typically) 95-105dB at 1.5m, measured at 45 degrees to the exhaust.

I suspect SS will be a bit higher....

[AllenB]

This article quotes Saturn V as 120 dB from 1.5 km away. The same distance for SLS was recorded at 136 dB.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230306-just-how-loud-is-a-rocket-launch

That is a huge difference, given the logarithmic nature of decibels, for two rockets of fairly comparable power. The one obvious difference would seem to be solid vs. liquid. Do we know if solids are significantly louder by nature? If so, perhaps Starship won't be so bad.

[Jake-ZA]

I'd be surprised if anybody means them as insults.  Some people have a "face for radio" and others have a "voice for print".  It's just a harsh reality.

As regards SpaceX live commentary during a flight, including Falcon 9s, I can recall listening on short wave radio, way back, to broadcasts of launches where anything originating from mission control was preceded by a very short sort of cueing break in "beep" which gave the commentators a clue as to when to shut up. There's probably a technical term for the mechanism, which presumably has gone extinct because of modern technology. It'd be quite useful if this could be reinvented and make it easier for inexperienced commentators to add a bit of structure to their words of wisdom.

The other thing I find annoying is having things repeatedly explained to me as if I were a five year old incapable of remembering what MECO or MAXQ is. Clearly I'm not the target audience, but it's irritating.

[matthewkantar]

I believe the term you are looking for is “Quindar tones.”

[ZachS09]

I believe the term you are looking for is “Quindar tones.”

I thought the Quindar tones were used when astronauts communicate with Mission Control.

[jboone]

As regards SpaceX live commentary during a flight, including Falcon 9s, I can recall listening on short wave radio, way back, to broadcasts of launches where anything originating from mission control was preceded by a very short sort of cueing break in "beep" which gave the commentators a clue as to when to shut up. There's probably a technical term for the mechanism, which presumably has gone extinct because of modern technology. It'd be quite useful if this could be reinvented and make it easier for inexperienced commentators to add a bit of structure to their words of wisdom.

Quindar tones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quindar_tones.

SpaceX still uses them on Crew Dragon missions. There’s slightly different start-transmission and end-transmission tones. They’re transmitted by both sides. edit: it’s more complicated than that, and varies depending on the era and mission. Don’t mind me, just read Wikipedia and their linked references.

[psionedge]

Some of these critiques are starting to sound a little like personal insults.  I appreciate the various hosts for their differences, their passion, and the connection they have with SpaceX in addition to just being some "hired newscast blob" but that's all just my opinion and I'll leave it at that.

I'd be surprised if anybody means them as insults.  Some people have a "face for radio" and others have a "voice for print".  It's just a harsh reality.

Do you live in a strange world where something has to be false for it to be an insult? (Nevermind that these are opinions anyways)

[Tcasper]

Looking forward to watching tomorrow’s Starship launch! Drove quite a ways to get to TX!

Would anybody be able to provide GPS coords or a Google Maps pin of the best place to watch the launch? Would be much appreciated!

[Oersted]

People who work in broadcasting should not be too precious, or it will be excessively stressful for them. And criticism is not the same as insults, even though it is becoming fashionable in some circles to think so.

[rsdavis9]

Looking forward to watching tomorrow’s Starship launch! Drove quite a ways to get to TX!

Would anybody be able to provide GPS coords or a Google Maps pin of the best place to watch the launch? Would be much appreciated!

https://goo.gl/maps/14B1Hfb3ap1xdAt87

[abaddon]

People who work in broadcasting should not be too precious, or it will be excessively stressful for them. And criticism is not the same as insults, even though it is becoming fashionable in some circles to think so.

That's cool; personally I think the broadcasts are fine and all of this pathetic whining about it is really sad and is a waste of time when we could be discussing actually interesting stuff.

I'm just being honest! /s

[AS_501]

This article quotes Saturn V as 120 dB from 1.5 km away. The same distance for SLS was recorded at 136 dB.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230306-just-how-loud-is-a-rocket-launch

That is a huge difference, given the logarithmic nature of decibels, for two rockets of fairly comparable power. The one obvious difference would seem to be solid vs. liquid. Do we know if solids are significantly louder by nature? If so, perhaps Starship won't be so bad.

Jay Apt once told me that big liquid-fuel rockets produce a more basso-profundo roar than big solid-fuel rockets.  Don't ask me to explain the underlying physics.   It will also be interesting how far away SS/SH will be heard (depending on weather conditions).  Corpus Christi?  Brownsville?  San Antonio?  Houston?  Hopefully the launch won't trigger 911 calls from those who have no idea what's going on. 

[wannamoonbase]

I like Kate, I like Jesse, I like John. The rest are fine too.

And I can pretty much guarantee that few people if anyone at SpaceX give's two rats' asses what anyone on this forum thinks about their webcast hosts. We are not their target demographic whatsoever, nor should we be. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, my Fellow Olds, but that's reality. Instead of poking inane criticism at hosts for a free service we have no right to expect at all, why not go yell at some clouds instead?

I think SpaceX's hosts do a fine job.  I think the launch coverage that SpaceX provides is an important component of their image and appeal to potential employees and attract Starlink Customers.

[alugobi]

I really miss Lauren Lyons from the earlier days. Calm, steady, nice voice, knowledgeable

[ZachS09]

I suggest we move on to something completely different. What do you say?

[sdfasdfasd]

Edit ( from spacex.com ): 

The 62 minute launch window opens tomorrow, April 20th, at 8:28 a.m. and closes at 9:30 a.m.

So ( for any others who are also planning their day around this ) Starship will have splashed down by 9:58 at the earliest or 11:00 at the latest.

All times CDT.

Edit2: ZachSog beat me to it. Thanks!


Edit3: And at Daedalus1:
Leave it mate, your argument is pointless and jut(sic) fills the thread with irrelevant comments.
I want to know what Starship is doing and want to enjoy watching the official stream, which is not helped by your puerile remarks about remarks about the presenters' qualities as presenters.

[ZachS09]

You're on:

Do we know what time the launch window will open tomorrow and how long it will be?

IIRC, the window opens at 13:28 UTC (8:28 AM Central) and lasts 62 minutes until 14:30 UTC (9:30 AM Central).

[Steve G]

Surely some AI program could bring back Jack King and Paul Haney's commentary. They were the standard of excellence yet to be surpassed.

[jon.amos]

Please don’t overlook that the SpaceX presenters are engineers who design/build the product for day jobs. The presenter gig is part time/for fun. They are not professional media personalities, they are enthusiastic amateur presenters but professional rocket builders first.